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The shoe-bomber, well this was finally released. Hope you guys can appreciate it. ------------------------------------------------ Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it? Did you know his trial is over? Did you know he was sentenced? Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV/Radio? Didn't think so. Everyone should hear what the judge had to say. Ruling by Judge William Young US District Court. Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say. His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah," defiantly stated "I think I ought not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country." Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below, a stinging condemnation of Reid in particular and terrorists in general: January 30, 2003 United States vs. Reid. Judge Young: Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you. On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other. That's 80 years. On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines. The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment. |
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The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no f further. This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence. Let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist Co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is all too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, where we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice. You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do it or your attorney who does it, or that happens to be your view, you are a terrorist...And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not treat with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice. So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I know warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal guilty of multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were and he said you're no big deal. You're no big deal. |
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What your counsel, what your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today? I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing. And I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know. It seems to me you hate the one thing that is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose. Here, in this society, the very winds carry freedom. They carry it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges. |
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We are about it. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bare any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice. See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. You know it always will. Mr. Custody Officer. stand him down. So, how much of this Judge's comments did we hear on our TV sets? We need more judges like Judge Young, but that's another subject. Pass this around. Everyone should and needs to hear what this fine judge had to say. Powerful words that strike home. God bless America |
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I hope this thread doesn't :xplode:, ..... and it shouldn't. there is nothing to debate here, and hopefully no stupid comments will come about it. Justice served. Thanks, America. |
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Oehckaiye |
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fuck politics,it's not good for ur health |
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I think it's time for America to learn how to love and forget how to hate. |
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umm actually i would have to respectfully disagree with you sir... i found 90 percent of what the judge said perfectly fine and acceptable... but i cannot accept his explanation at the end that Richard Reid hates freedom... i'm a little tired of hearing this statement... and with all due respect, elusive, (i wish i knew your real name so i could address you by it right now) i would like you to explain why you agree with this statement... please don't mistake this for flaming or what ever... i just want you to honestly justify why you find that statement believable, real, acceptable et cetera... please, i'm very interested in hearing what you have to say... |
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I didn't write this. This isn't my word-for-word statements, so please don't take your issues on the judge's words out on me!!!!!!! Please don't !!!! My name is Mike, by the way, and you can address me anyday, sir! |
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hey mike, i am mike also, hehe |
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thanks, Mike... i know these aren't your words... but you said you do agree with them... i just want someone intelligent, like yourself, to explain to me why so many people accept the argument that the reason terrorist do as they do is because they hate the freedom of Americans... i can see how might be said indirectly (that's stretching it), but in an indirect manner that would incorporate an particular understanding of the issue which i don't believe that most people who feel this way have... |
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you're a canadian! what are you doing in this thread!?!?!?!?! just kidding :) |
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ps... i am not yelling, i am only asking... i respect you and i want to hear what you have to say... if you don't feel like doing it now... feel free to not... i know justifying one's ideas feels like a chore sometimes... but i really would like to hear how you feel about this sometime... |
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ha... yeah, i was going to apologize about that... but we canadians are such good infiltrators and such... we walk among you... we spend our summers in retirement villas in florida... :P |
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Well I come from Bromley in Kent, where this tit comes from, he is just a suburban berk, not a million miles unlike Elusive, who got sucked into a gang and wanted to be someone. There's no justice served, bringing the multibillion dollar Amrican law against an individual who, lacking any direction in life tried, to make a name for himself by blowing up his shoes for a cause he barely understood. You've made out of one, sad, lonely individual, a scape goat as a justification for carrying out your genocidal foreign policy. This is nothing to celebrate, this is another nail in your coffin. |
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oh come on, canada is the biggest state : ) |
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the us is the biggest province... we're really in control, Bush is our puppet! |
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Thanks, DeadEight, for actually addressing me in a respectful manner, and I hope to return the favor. As for "agreeing" with the statement, hmmm...that is a hard one to answer. I guess you can say upon reading it, I felt a sense of pride and joy by the judge's remarks. I do, personally, agree that there is a 'large' difference between a terrorist, and a soldier. And I do have respect for soldiers of any army. But there is strictely a difference in my mind between soldiers and 'terrorists' who attack others simply because they believe their God, or god, tells them to. Eh, it's really hard to put into words...I hope you can bear with me on this. |
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P.s. I live in Michigan; know plenty of Canadians. I don't have any issues with you people, or completely understand how some people can seperate us so much : / Anyways......... |
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i can bear with you on this |
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i think canada and england secretly run the us, they use us to do all of the "dirty" work, it would seem pretty unsightly if they were the ones playing world domination. yep, leave it up to the younger, less experienced former colony/territory the run things, you guys can just sit back with a labatt or whatever and enjoy. |
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I guess...at least an army is usually part of a nation...and that nation usually has structure......Structure that is able to process a solution to differences....meanwhile people labeled as 'terrorists' are out amongst the people of a country...hiding, jumping, skipping and plotting through, and usually have to make a "statement" by making headlines in the media...i.e., usually by attacking civilians.. Soldiers attack soldiers. Terrorists attack civilians...and innocents. That is my biggest upset. |
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dont you think though that terrorist is the new "communist", or to call someone a terrorist implies that they are in some way demonized? its like a new McCarthyism for the 00s, i love my country but sometimes we do some f'ed up stuff. |
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sorry, calling someone a terrorist demonizes them, or essentially calls into question their very morality and puts that on trial |
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There is a strict difference, in my opinion......on how they go about trying to win anything over. I can certainly have respect for men; soldiers, who die in battle for their country. But for someone who purposes harms innocent civilians to prove a point, or to make a scene....I just cannot contest to that. Eh, ... times are changing; humans are getting desperate. Media is the true ruler now, and the 'terrorists' sure know how to use that to their advantage... |
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Started with 9/11, then Spain, now Russia. Anyone wanting to do harm to a country is now using the media as their "bitch" to ride it in. Certainly...terrible. And I'm out..continue this tomorrow, maybe. Good night. |
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terrorism didn't start with 9/11 |
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Obviously, ... but on the "media" side is more of what I meant by "starting with 9/11" |
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hey guys *awkward silence* |
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Okay, then the whole terrorist thing is obviously an exercise in fear, perpetuated by the media and us government. |
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*quiet, respectful applause* |
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i think what map says is right, just because we see it more now does not mean it has not always been around, its war, we are at war, these are things people do in war, its been a long time since war has come to america itself, how do you think some iraqis view the us, do you think we are terrorist to them? i love the us, i think that is soldiers are very brave, but i dont agree with how everything is turning out, thats my simple way of answering this thread. |
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indeed. a judge should give sentence, not whip out a speech. showcase trial, anyone? |
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i don't really want to contest the distinction between terrorist and soldier... i think it's a really slippery slope (and now i am going to have to get into it i suppose), and i was willing to give America the benefit of the doubt on this one... only so long as we don't talk about it in such certain terms... what i really really want to deal with, here... is the idea that terrorists terrorize because they hate American freedom... i think this idea is silly and it treats real people like characters out of a Joel Schumacher film... they are bad and therefore they must hate the most pure good things... this is silly... and i question how much thought is put into it... i question how much empathy was put into make such a proclamation... i know there are some fundamental disagreements on the issue of the War on Terror in general, and i think there is a good reason for this: it's a very complicated, sensitive, important issue... i'm not here to solve all of it, or pretend like i have the answers... but i wish that someone could tell me why we accept this "freedom-hating" diagnosis... why do we allow people to say this? do we honestly believe this, and if so, why? because as far as i can see... these kind of statements... appeal to our desire to make a myth out of something that demands to be treated in the exact opposite manner... i believe that this belief will continue to be a fundamental barrier in the way of any resolution to this very large problem that the world has... and i don't think anyone stands to benefit from it in the long run... perhaps it seems like a small insignificant thing to quibble over... a few sentences in a several paragraph long response... but i think it is a very fundamental part of the problem, and i would like to see us discuss it a lot more before we just accept it cheers, Alex |
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the stand-up comedian David Cross has about the same problems you have with the whole "freedom haters" thing.. and goodbye, also Alex. |
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thanks Alex, -Alex |
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"freedom haters" i dont agree with this, they hate something but its surely is not freedom, i have no answer on this, i dont think there is one, war is upon the us, its an us vs them situation that is being built up here. |
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well, Alex, he has a lot more to say about it, these were clips I had uploaded a few months ago to use in another thread. it's from his album called "Its Not Funny", which is very funny and if you are so inclined, is not that hard to find on slsk. and I have it too, although not shared at the moment, but I could be persuaded. regards, Alex. |
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david cross rocks my socks. |
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he does the same to my socks. and I have mr. Jason Holland a.k.a. pommedeterre to thank for this. that guy has my undying lurve. |
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david cross is awesome, although i felt like his last album was almost more anger than well thought out comedy. it was still very funny, but sometimes he seemed to reaching a bit too far into things that simply weren't humor and were just him being very pissed off. |
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they dont hate our freedom. they hate our feet being on their land. i agreed with what a lot of the judge said too - but this holier than thou 'merika talk is a load of horseshit. that flag isnt going to be around forever - after all. |
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hmmm americans don't seem to get why these people hate them. they always say "they are angry because we are free". HAHAHAH!! what load of crap. they seem to forget the fact that the american government trained them, armed them and used them for personal gain. why do you think Iran hates america? that's because the american government put the Iranian Sjah in charge so he could be a pawn for the americans. they wanted to let Iran become like america. the gap between rich and poor grew bigger and bigger and people didn't take that. also, Iran has a big cultural history and they didn't want to give that up either to become like the west. the american governments just abuses other countries in order for personal gain but when the coutries turn against them they go like " why do they hate us?? they are angry because we are free!!!!". and allot of americans think that way. allot of people seem to forget that Al qaeda was created by the americans in order to keep the communists in controle. |
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elusive: are you 3lusiv3 on head-fi? and.. a question.. I haven't read all the posts, so the question may have been asked before, but... why is it so that americans that commit crimes in other countries are "protected" from being sentenced in that country, and us soldiers that commit war-crimes are "protected" from being judged in Haag, while the americans INSIST on judging criminals from other countries (Saddam, for example) in America? Does it sound fair to you that war-criminals get off easier just because they're4 from america? |
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'Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bare any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms.' 'It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely.' This is, respectfully, a little over the top. The people in Guantanamo Bay would like justice to be administered. A country that locks people p without access to lawyers and a fair trial is not one that prizes freedom and democracy. |
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the shoe-bomber was a victim of american imperial policy and a corupt religion. Of course he should get the maximum setance but shiting on about justice and freedom makes me fucking puke. |
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I agree there needs to be more judges like that! |
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i actually liked what he had to say. that made me feel a tad bit better about being an americant. |
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for me, what he had to say is simply not needed in a trial, this is the only thing he should have said, January 30, 2003 United States vs. Reid. Judge Young: Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you. On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other. That's 80 years. On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines. The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment. The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. after that he is just speaking his opinion, which has no place "in the halls of justice" its just rhetoric simple as that. |
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