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 (nobody)...and 396 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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"has judged quickly without really listening or trying to understand what she is hearing" you gave britney spears a fair amount "trying to understand her music" then? as for lars, i was more thinking of how he equals success with the quality of music...and on top of it all he's probably even more greedy that paul mccartney. |
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i understand the reluctance to wholly accept what critics write (they are, after all, subjective individuals), but you can't extend this kind of logic too far - or how would you ever find out about music that might interest you? radio/tv? - no, because it's just highest bidder advertising which only represents a tiny proportion of the music out there. artists? - no, theyre hardly going to say their music's crap now, are they? labels? - no, lest we forget, theyre just trying to sell music & make money. while i'd never condone swallowing everything a particular source tells you about music (they all have their vested interests/subjective tastes/biases) it's worth being AWARE of them. the more sources youre exposed to the more informed you are about the reliability of their recommendations. it's a useful way of finding out about new sounds; but always approach with a healthy dose of scepticism.. |
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"well of course, i'll value my friends opinion more, because he is more likely to have understood the music." not necessarily.. assuming music CAN be "understood," why isn't it possible for you to be wrong? what if it is shite, and your Britney-fan-friend is right? How do you know she's not right? easy: you like it. But WHY do you like it? If it is the first listen, how can you like it if you can't like it until you've listened to it a few times? (side question. autechre: why is that confield album so different from the other albums? It's the only one I liked (didn't check it before this thread), but earlier, when I was going to check some of their music and asked, everyone said Draft and Chiastic slide were the albums to check.. those weren't even HALF as good as this one (IMO)) |
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as i said before: "music has been commodified, this is something we must try to reconcile, as it is the only way our favourite artists can continue to work without having to compromise their time & talent to a regular job." i guess you just have to hope that enough musicians will value the integrity of their art over the amount of money they can make from it. |
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well.. I DO check out new music all the time (mostly suggestions through here), but when I check I listen once, and If I don't like it, I won't listen again. I listen to several releases by the same artist, hoping to possibly discover something good (like with that confield thing) or some change, but still.. If there is nothing I like, I just won't listen to it again. Tolstoyeds music-taste is COMPLETELY different from mine, but I often check the music he mentions, 'cause there may be something good. However, I mostly don't like it... hehe... |
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i haven't bought a bad album in a long time...after all these years i apperantly got to know how to pick music i will like...this instinct rarely fails me and i buy a fair amount of albums. |
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haha, you're like the only person checking those recomendation threads and you don't even like it...haha thank you anyway though!! |
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we are getting back to: what makes music good? i like this debate, but it is a separte argument from this one. even if it did turn out to be shite, i'm sure it would be for different reasons than the ones the britney fan gave. joking aside autechre do not just produce random clicks and beeps. if they made a shite album i think it would be down to: melodies lacking in emotion...not being original enough...rehashing old material...copying venetian snares' ideas. so even if it was shite i think the britney fan would be wrong because she gave the wrong reasons |
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there is no "understand," "right," "wrong," "good" or "bad," not really; although it IS tempting to use those terms. music connects with autonomous individuals on an emotional level, and is thus entirely subjective. i'm terrible for talking about the 'value' of a piece of music in relation to other works. but my arguements are based in a 'logic' and 'philosophy' that's founded primarily on a gut emotional reaction. there is no benchmark against which you can check music's quantifiable value. |
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ah.. not really related to what you said, but what you said reminded me of something.. if anyone has seen that "this is our music" show on MTV the time Martin Horntved was talking about SmallTownSupersound, and he said "i generally don't buy ARTISTS, I buy RECORD-LABELS." I lost all respect for him RIGHT THERE. That's the sign of a TRUE "iwannabeundergroundSOOOOBAAAAAD" idiot! |
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yes you don't have to listen to much britney to understand whats going on |
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i buy warp exclusively! morge, you should give britney more credit!! |
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i haven't got the time (or the sanity) to repeatedly listen to britney, life's too short |
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as defined by my fat dictionary: understand - to comprehend, to grasp with the mind, to be able to follow the working, logic or meaning of surely you can do that with music, especially if it has lyrics |
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the lyrics are a different part of it.. they're not the music, they're poetry... however, poetry is ALSO about feelings.. it's about "painting" feelings with metaphors (like: "i'm red"). However, everyone will connect different things to "red." Some will think "mmm.. red apples," and others will think "blood!!!!" |
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i see...well i prefer autechre to britney coz i like the sound of it better, not because they would be more intellectualy challenging...i think. |
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hahha! yes, I see that from your recordbag. hehe... |
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you "feel" it better, right? |
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i guess so... |
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and btw, i also have one of destiny child's singles, but that one isn't in the discography so i couldn't put it into my recordbag! |
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before you can feel poetry you have to understand it. music is like language if you gave me a beautiful poem in norwegian and a collection of meaningless unrelated words i would not understand either. i would not be able to feel either of them, my judgment would be solely based on whether the sounds of the words were pleasing |
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Commercialisation could be good but it turns out bad because multinational corporations strip the "artists" of their rights and some times force the "artist" to alter his approach on his shit, make the "artist" produce the same album all the time because that's what the public supposedly wants, they even intervene on the production and structure of the music etc. Sometimes an "artist" only channels his negative emotions through music. If the "artist" has no reason to feel like he/she felt before it is possible that the music will lose authenticity. |
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you have to understand the LANGUAGE the poetry was IN, but you don't have to understand what the writer meant or felt when he wrote it, because such a thing is impossible. if you think understanding the language of the music you're listening to is important, you'd better start brushing up on your music-theory.. I'll stick to feeling it. |
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surely you have to understand what the writer meant, otherwise why not just write any old cack, cos people are just as likely to feel that as they are something really meangingful |
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you CAN'T understand what the writer meant simply because he has different experiences with the things he's using as metaphors for what he felt/meant. If he, by balloon, means something awful because he never had a balloon when he was a child, and you, as a happy child with lots of balloons read the word balloon, you'll think of it as a happy word, while he intended it sad. |
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i don't misinterpretation can apply to all poetry. in some cases yes, but poetry isn't always metaphorical. i'm at home to a lot of the stuff you've said, but saying that what the writer of a poem means is impossible defies the whole point of writing a poem |
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there should be a "think" between don't and misinterpretation |
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you can NEVER understand COMPLETELY what another person means.. EVER! It is a result of the limitations of our languages. We don't have enough words and expressions to cover everything we mean, so we do our best with what we have. and this does NOT defy the point of writing the poem.. it is actually the REASON to write a poem. Poems ARE about metaphors and using "word-images" to better convey the meaning you cannot convey using regular language, but there is SOOO MUCH left (I don't think we'll ever achieve it) before we can fully understand what another person means. |
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yes! i agree that never completely, but some meaning is conveyed |
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i concur. |
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yes, SOME meaning - but not a full understanding. spoken/written language can be as abstract as music itself. once again, it's all subject to interpretation. how many wars have been started, arguments fuelled, relationships faltered and friendships lost because of misinterpretation? even in the most boring, non-artistic spheres - it is impossible to convey absolute meaning through language. written wills in this country are presented without ANY punctuation; because it's those little affectations which open text up to subjective interpretation. in this instance, it can lead to costly, damaging legal battles. |
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(hehe.. reminds me of that "catch me if you can" or whatever that film was called.. "doctor?" "hm?" "what do you want to do, doctor?" "eh.. I.. I CONCUR") |
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yeah.. wills are a good example.. wills (at least here in norway and obviously the UK as well) are to be interpredet subjectively.. so if a will states that "John shall have the crowbar," and the person who wrote the will called his mansion in the hills "the crowbar," John will get the mansion, and not some crowbar. |
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interpreted... why the d and the t switched places are beyond me. |
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Physically, everyone processes information the same way. The objective experience of looking at a picture, tasting food, or hearing sound is the same for all of us. So why do some like one thing while another hates it? |
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people use their physical brains to process information everyone has a different brain therefore; physically everyone processed information in a different way |
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a human is the only creature that exists both in the physical AND the metaphysical realm. Some philosopher said this.. possibly descartes.. yeah, I think it was him. You forget that there is more to us than the physical. |
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descartes was very influential but most modern philosophers disagree with him, he spoke a lot of rubbish. that "there is more to us than the physical" is not something you can just suppose that easily |
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plus, you cannot assume that everyone's physical process of information-gathering is the same. colour, smell, taste, etc. it depends on the equipment you're using as much as the way your brain processes the information received by the equipment. yes we all see, hear, smell (unless you have some form of impairment), but even within each of those processes, physical differences will affect the way in which the information is received, even before the metaphysical (subjective) processes of the brain occur. objectivity is, more or less, an impossibility. |
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Sorry for my vaugeness. I was planning on anwering my own question. The answer: People have diffrent value systems. When the painter Monet showed his first impressionist painting, art galleries refused to show it. When Stravinsky debuted Rites of Spring, people rioted due to outrage. That's because the critics were using a diffrent standard than the artists. BTW acrid milk hall, I must assume everyone's physical process is the same for gathering info. To believe otherwise is to say that none of us share the same reality! BTW2, Drunken Mastah, what do you mean by physical? I'm afraid I'm gulity of using that term without completely understanding it. |
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To believe otherwise is to say that none of us share the same reality! none of us do sharre the same rreality. forr most of us it is verry similarr, but it's neverr the same. |
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The diffrence must be next to nil. Good enough. |
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not when you think about. |
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it. |
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i don't think either of us has convinced the other of our viewpoint, but i thank you for a fascinating argument. it is a very good thing when people can disagree about things, lets keep it that way |
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it's betterr when people can agrree. |
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not necessarily. if you can control the disagreement (not start a war over it), it isn't all bad! |
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I honestly don't see how you can believe that. |
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next to nil is not near enough. ask three people to tell you about an event they all witnessed.. you'll get a different story from each, even if they all firmly believe they are telling the truth. |
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