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 (nobody)...and 421 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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yes there is! :) |
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I think the community is making an effort to get the name changed... I like the name personally! |
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"i hate nonsense. why the hell is it so damn popularr?" > i suppose there are many answers to that... one being that maybe people don't have anything to say anymore, yet they want to show that they exist. another one being perhaps a reaction against too much square reason, logic, science etc. - when everything has logical scientific explanations, if everyone believes them, there is no need to argue nor discuss anything and the world becomes as clear as it becomes cold ans boring; there is no place for imagination, dreams, etc. and if you take it further, no place for feelings nor even for humain beings... saying "random" stuff like it comes to our minds, can feed your imagination and be a reaction against all this (consciously or unconsiously). |
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well i've just orrderred one last album and now that's it, no morre forr a long while. i can't swearr on the bible that i won't give up beforre i intend to, but i'm prretty serrious about this. it's going to be harrd, i know, but i'll perrsist. |
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most of the albums I really love are the ones that took a while to get into. |
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which last album was it? |
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In fact it was just that new [Deluxe Edition] of A Love Supreme because it comes with that live perrforrmance at Antibes seperrated into trracks, I have some shitty copy. |
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I concur with Dog_Belch, he said something earlier that I forgot to reply to. I have a ton of ambient glitch that all melts into one boring entity, I really should stop hoarding it. |
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i agree with anus' very first post, however every now and then i do still buy a record which does just instantly grab me and i fall in love with. but it don't matter anyway, i view the buying of rcords as building up a library, you don't have to listen to them all straight away, you can just browse and go back to things. i quite often have friends say to me 'hey did you hear so and so' and it's only then that i'll go back and give things a proper listen. a few months ago i just happened to dig out dirty dozen by PBO for some reason, i remember listening to it a few times when i got it and not really being taken by it, but when i listened to it again recently i really liked it......i dunno what i'm trying to say really....just that you go back to most things eventually and give them a proper listen in the end. |
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drunken mastah: you seem to think that your own experiences (ie 'you can only truely like music that you like instantly) can be generalized to every situation and to every person. this kind of reasoning reminds me (the object of this comment is not at all one of insult) of the way children view the world. at a young age, children can't seem to be able to differentiate 'others' from 'themselves'. there is a well documented time in one's life where a human realizes that, in fact, people don't all think as they do. again, im not trying at all to say that you think like a kid or whatever. i just noticed a striking resemblance to this way of seing things. another thing i'd like to add is that i hope you dont live your life with a 'first impressions are always right' way of thinking. if so, have you ever had a girlfriend? if so, logically, you should still be with her, because you mustve liked her instantly to have a relationship with her. another thing is, how do you explain the effect of aging on what a person likes? do you still enjoy watching kids' tv shows? would you still wear the clothes you wore 5 years ago? |
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I'm back. Dildo?! HAHAHA! what is the origin of the name? everyone: i'm not talking about albums you like a bit on first listen.. If you like it and want to "get to know it," that's ok.. the problem comes when society around you makes you push yourself through endless hours of listening just to "understand" something you can't possibly "understand." If you can REALLY "understand" an album, why don't you listen to EVERYTHING? Britney Spears, Merzbow, Chick Corea (great artist, by the way, but I am SURE some of you dislike his music), kenny rogers, 50cent, nickelback, big tymers, avril lavigne, bach, andrea bocelli.. from your logic, they all have something which helps you "enrichen" (spelling?) your life! cortex: see post #01242658 |
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anus, my pal, I'll support you -C- |
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because there is a lot less to "understand" in a britney spears album than an album by squarepusher. music is quantifiable, so it is possible to say that one piece is more detailed and complicated than another, so it will take longer to "see the whole picture" (is that better than saying "understand"?) with a more complicated piece. there's no point spendind ages listening to britney because you can see everything it has to offer straight away |
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"because there is a lot less to "understand" in a britney spears album than an album by squarepusher." well.. that's a pretty Hume-ish statement. "oooh.. it isn't 'higher culture,' so it must be crap. there can't be more to it" you'll have to do better than that, I'm afraid.. you'll have to prove it somehow.. or you have to prove that it is impossible to disprove it. You are clearly an elitist, which makes your reasons for pushing yourself through hours of bad listening to get used to it (or "see the whole picture" as you call it) more clear: you think that if you don't like this and that, you're not as good as the people who DO like this and that. Now.. this is not a way of insulting you, but it is the way I see you now. |
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sorry for getting annoyed with you yesterday... my boss was annoying me, so I was in a bad mood! I really do love you! :) |
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hahaha! I know, and I love you too.. I just like to discuss, which often makes me take the COMPLETE opposite and controversial point in discussions to see if I can defend it. Now.. I'm not saying that I don't mean what I write (I mean that I only have music I liked on first listen at home, but I don't really want to force this upon you.. it's a part of the discussion, that's all...), but certain places I just get carried away.. I'm not this bombastic in real-life, though.. hahahha! Don't let this disrupt the discussion, 'cause I'm going to keep forcing my opinions onto you! |
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to drunken mastah i think exactly the opposite :D music that grows on u, ull eventually love even more because first time u couldn comprehend the greatness of it, because u were unprepared for it for some reason...and than u expanded yr mind to it...and it hit u! |
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once again: it depends. if you like it from the start, and listen to it, and see new things, that's ok, but music you HATE and then listen to because you HAVE to "understand" it, in reality sucks! |
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i am not musically literate and i don't play any instruments but i know a talented musician when i hear one, now if you wrote down all the parts to, for example, "toxic" by britney spears and compared it with a transcript of, for example, "vordhosbn" or "go! spastic" you would see that the latter two have more detail and complexity. now i know you can say: difficult doesn't mean better, complex doesn't mean better. but then we're are getting into an aesthetic argument rather than just a musical one |
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and by the way I don't go through hours of bad listening, i prefer to see it as *adopts voice of the bloke in the monty python film where death crashes the dinner party* a positive learning experience and im not an elitist. i don't think that people who enjoy britney's music are stupid. i just think that perhaps they don't take music as art as seriously as i do, which may not be a bad thing |
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damn right complex doesn't mean better.. I could probably compose one of the most complex works ever, but I prefer to make music based upon the spontanity and the feelings of the moment when I make the music. if people tried "understanding" my music, I'd get pretty pissed, 'cause there is NO way they can feel what I felt when I made it. However.. once I've finished a track and let someone else listen to it, it's not my track any more... I miss having control of my tracks... |
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not sure about that. clearly squarepusher is more 'complex' than a pop record by the likes of britney spears. but complexity isn't inextricably linked with quality. there are plenty of complex musical works which are crap. and what about minimal music? music that relies on small changes in a repeated theme over a long period of time? yuo could say that was more 'simple'.. does that make it 'worse' than a boombastic pop record? essentially the matter is a subjective one. as cortex pointed out, we must avoid the temptation to be so arrogant as to think that everyone approaches and/or reacts to music in the same way. i (like many of you, im sure) am incredibly passionate about music. it moves me more than any other art form, it changes my moods, and can be akin in intensity to genuine social interactions with other people. love & friendship aside, music is the most powerful defining force in my life. naturally i listen for pleasure. but i also listen to be challenged, to learn, broaden my cultural pallette and expand my horizons. but i am well aware that other people do not. some want music solely as a background distraction. some want it solely as a soundtrack to their social interactions (nights out with friends etc). some use music solely to relax to. some want music to sing/hum/whistle along to, and nothing more. some love to play music but hate to listen. it is something different to everyone. my relationship with music is perfect for ME. but that doesn't make me better, more intellectual or superior than anyone else. i can't stand the inverse snobbery directed at mass/popular consumer culture. music has been commodified, this is something we must try to reconcile, as it is the only way our favourite artists can continue to work without having to compromise their time & talent to a regular job. i'm digressing now & i'm sure you can't be bothered to read any more of my ramblings. it's all been said before i'm sure. all i will say is this.. |
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there was a poster on the wall of the music room in my primary school.. it said "if it SOUNDS good, it IS good" |
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they probably take music just as serious as you do, but they have other preferences in music. if it was so that you could "understand" music, you should have no problem with listening to Britney Spears, 'cause there wouldn't really be preferences in music.. there would only be ways of expanding your 'horizon' (horizon in this context: the complete collection of "you." All the things you've heard and seen and experienced... no-one else has the same horizon as you, nor can you get anyone else's horizon.. you may understad a PART of someone elses horizon, but you will never understand it all) |
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fuck! my cunt of a computer just fucked up my reply |
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and i always thought that dogs chased thierr tails because they'rre dogs and they'rre stupid. |
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i think that was one of the things i was trying to say in my epic post. it was all a bit disjointed as i had to keep breaking off and starting again as the boss wandered in and out of the office. |
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" i can't stand the inverse snobbery directed at mass/popular consumer culture." amen. annyoing "oooH! I'm soo UNDERGROOOOUND!" people (I know a few that are COMPLETELY bent on being underground.. if they have a cd with a track that gets played on the radio more than twice, they throw or sell the cd. It has become a joke with the rest of us, but unfortunately, it seems to attract chicks... |
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yeah, but you posted while I was still writing that one... |
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there probably is some reason for it.. entertainment? |
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what i was going to say was... we got off topic slightly in discussing what constitutes good art. i don't think complex=good, that was a bit misleading. our original discussion was: is it worth listening to something that you don't enjoy at first again and again? i think it is, but that is based on a decision. the decision for me is based on my own preferences for what constitutes art. i think that i will have a high chance of enjoyment if i keep plugging away at autechre, than if i buy britney's back catalogue. it is a logical decision, to maximise my listening pleasure. |
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i don't want to be labelled a snob here. whenever artists achieve commercial success it invariably has a bad effect on their artistic prowess. there are exceptions to the rule (radiohead) |
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nice to see we agree on this one. i was actually quite hurt some while back when someone i was getting to knew thought I was like that, just because they weren't aware at the time of a lot of what i was listening to. i had to try & explain to them that i didn't listen to it because i felt it was more 'exclusive', but simply because i loved it. regardless of how popular it is or how many millions of other people buy it. i liked this person a lot, so it really bothered me that they thought i was some kind of snob - looking down on them. |
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how does popularity have a bad effect? I remember when Ralph Myerz just got signed to that [something]/norton label-thingie.. the first thing he did was go out and get some decent equipment and re-record certain songs with real bass instead of computer-bass, and his music certainly improved after that (he had ways of putting his feelings more accurately into the music). However, all the concerts and touring made him a bit tired, so he's on holiday now.. no more concerts for a while... that's the only bad thing that happened to him... |
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i think that it is true that you can enjoy something without understanding it. but in most cases enjoyment is a cognitive process: i enjoy such-and-such because...blah blah blah. just because you can "understand" music does not mean that there are no preferences, as you said earlier. |
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well i've never heard of Ralph Myerz so i can't comment on that. maybe it is more the case with rock musicians, but once the youth of a country decide that so-and-so is the stuff to be into the artist sells out. i suppose you want me to list examples |
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popularity has a huge effect i think. moby is the best example, i used to love his early material from the 90s, ambient, moby, everything is wrong, animal rights, i like to score... even a bit of early underground, but ever since play, theres been so much sunshine up his ass and total commercialization of Play that he got high on himself and shit out another record which sounds the exact same as play, and if you know moby, you know that allot of his old stuff differed greatly every release. RIP |
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thankyou, perfect example |
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i definitely agree. although there are a lot of albums i now love which i didn't connect with instantly, there was SOMETHING in them (however intangible) that compelled me to continue listening to them; allowing that connection to grow over time. thus, i will quite happily stick with an album i find difficult to connect with wholly at first. but it's rare that i will stick with an album that i do not like at all. the only time this may happen is if someone recommends whose opinions i value recommends i give it another go, a few years after my initial listen. for some undefinable reason, it may make more 'sense' to me at this later stage. |
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yes this is what i am getting at. drunken, you keep berating people for listening to something just because the critics do. there are such things as music critics who actually DO know what they are talking about and i value their opinion if they something is well worth a listen. |
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how can enjoyment be a cognitive process? music is about feelings.. even if you look at music like a science, it's all about feelings (music theory: a song in the phrygian mode urges to "battle." A minor mode makes the song sad while a major makes it happy. all the modes have different "feelings" attached to them.. however, when people KNOWINGLY use this knowledge when making music, they've stopped making music, and is over in MUZAK (elevator music and film/mood-music)). |
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why should the critics' opinion matter more than your own? now we're back in the Hume-stage... "the perfect critic" and "a true nobleman will choose opera over food, no matter how hungry." |
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as for the popularity thing; i guess it depends on the artist's on sense of autonomy: whether they continue to produce records that satisfy them, or whether they compromise in order to please a larger audience/their label. still, that's not set in stone either. there's no proof that moby wouldn't have released records equally as shit as his latest offerings, with or without the worldwide popularity. maybe he's just run out of ideas. it's also a subjective thing. a lot of people loved play & 18 (was that it's name?) that would never listen to his early work. for me, it's not my thing.. at all. |
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as far as popularity vs quality goes, money is the thing that mucks it all up. certain artists are motivated to earn money more than they are to make quality art. |
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i read an interview with lars ulrich yesterday...biggest idiot of them all. |
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who is he? |
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..except for the biggest idiot of them all..? |
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metallica drumer. |
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the critics opinion does not matter more than my own, but i do value it. say there is an album that i have never heard, eg: a new autechre album. my friend likes similar music and has some of their old albums and reccomends it highly giving reasons for this: their are deep structures underlying the songs...it sounds fucking ace if you change the settings of the equaliser...it sounds intense when stoned...the rhthym makes it perfect for driving...the melodies are evocative or cold winte mornings enough to give me goosebumps all different reasons based on different qualities of the music. now, say i speak to my friends new girlfriend, a long-term britney fan. she hears my friend playing the album and tells me: its irritating shite, not even music , just a load of random beeps and clicks. well of course, i'll value my friends opinion more, because he is more likely to have understood the music. his reasons are justified, they are based on previous knowledge, whereas his girlfriend has judged quickly without really listening or trying to understand what she is hearing |
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well in my opinion metallica have always been shite, so no change there then |
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