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Would you consider knowing basic piano/ note structure a prerequisite to composing a melody? I ask because I'm able to write a nice melody every now and then, but i mostly create them from culmination of mostly improvised keys that I tweak for the right note... I want to get out of his habit, and I'm thinking learning piano would really be the first step.... any ideas? |
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yes... some basic knowledge would do a lot of help... you dont need to know everything, but some basic theory under your belt is worth having... |
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I just had a melody session with a friend of mine,... just hitting random notes on the organ until I come up with an alright sounding melody, |
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Thanks for the link, though I think I would still need to learn all the basics before I could make sense of it. I'm not yet fimilar with usage of "half steps" and "intervals". |
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if you have any questions id be happy to answer them, simgishel@hotmail |
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yeah the chords thing made me freak out too I need an idiots guide to what each chord is good for,.... |
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Much appreciated. I received Cubase SX as a birthday present (just turned 20 ;p) a few days ago, after having only used fruity loops for the past year and half... coupled with feeling the need to learn basic piano, learning this program is going to be pretty daunting and I think I'll probably need some real tutoring or classes to learn how to make real use of it. |
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it isn't something you NEED. it is better to learn by yourself, and develop into being able to improvise without needing to understand the rules. then you can improvise outside the rules, and create new rules, as rules have always been renewed and created through people who think outside of the existing rules. make jazz (love) to your instrument! |
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i disagree... you dont push any bounderies at all when you dont know how to stay in key basic theory is a must THEN go off on your own. |
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no, basic theory isn't a must. at least, you don't have to LEARN it. If you play enough, you will EXPERIENCE it. Playing in key will come naturally if you play the piano for a while. My cousin has never had any musical education, but he makes lots of cool music, and he plays the piano, bass, sax, violin, guitar, drums, harmonica, accordion, organ.. and some more instruments which i can't remember plus he sings. i've never had any musical education neither, but I've had a synth for a while now, and I've pretty much figured out how the scales work from listening to music and playing along and improvising on top. |
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yeah, basic theory can be taught to yourself in time yes, i wasnt saying that, its just in response to wolfslice, who hasnt had any experience... he could learn in a month what it takes a few years to teach yourself, with some theory |
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yeah, but then he will start to think theory. i know this one guy who has been around theory all his life, and now he's useless for making melodies and improvising. if we tell him to improvise, he will play, for instance, a mixolydian scale, and that will be it. |
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i know what you mean, and being schooled does promote following rules and never disobeying them, i know... most of the guys i went to music school are like that, you know why? coz they arent creative, its like painting, if you get taught to paint like monet, and your not creative, you'll always paint like monet... but someone with a bit of flair will change his shit up... i dont think that music theory should be looked upon so badly, if you have an ounce of flair you'll be somewhat unique, and that theory that you do have will only help you break the rules |
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yeah, in some cases. but if you look at some of the most famous musicians (both today and in the past), most of them NEVER had any musical training. so there seems to be more reasons to avoid learning musical theory than there are reasons to learn it. But true: if you ARE talented, it shouldn't matter either way.. learning musical theory should just speed up the process. the things I would like to learn how to do, is EQ, proper Compression, mixing and mastering in general. I've tried MANY times, but I NEVER understand what i'm supposed to do! Sure enough, I often end up with interesting sounds when playing around with distortion and reverb and compression, but I want to know how a professional masterer would use them! |
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people who are against theory, are just as closed minded as trained musicians, who think that you're only good if you went to school. its an argument that just drives me nuts. so, I have boiled it down to this: music is music. make it however feels like the right way for you. fuck everyone else. as long as your happy with where you are going with your music, thats all that matters. and yes, if you are a creative person, it wont take half a brain to say to yourself "oh wait, these rules are arbitrary... I will take what I want, and ignore what I dont" ive taken all the main jazz theory classes here at berklee (required). does my music sound jazzy? no. Because when I finished, I said, you know what, I dont like this. I wont use it. But sometimes, I do find interesting ways to use it, in my own way. just not a conventional way. and you also seem to be ignoring all of the classical, and contemporary classical composers. All of them have trainin (a FUCKload). Do you discredit these peoples works? There is some amazing things of beauty that have been composed... but it wasnt the theory, that was only a means to an end. and sure, theres alot of wank that comes from the academics... but probably in pretty equal proportion to people who have no idea what they are doing... and making the most simple, bland, uninspired music, because they dont the first thing about music, except randomly pushing buttons. But my biggest grivence... is how can you make such absolute and "objective" statements? Have you ever studied music seriously? and saying you did for a year or so, or took piano as a kid... thats not an objective viewing of theory... music theory is very very deep, and complex... theres so much to learn. I just dont think you can comment on what studying music does to you, if you dont know first hand. ive probably pissed alot of people off... anyways make music. music is good. listen to your heart, its all that matters. If you think learning theory will help you, fuck everyone who |
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make music. music is good. listen to your heart, its all that matters. If you think learning theory will help you, fuck everyone who tells you differently. If you think twiddling on your own is the best way, fuck everyone who tells you differently. just for gods sake, have an open mind. |
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well. the classical composers had NO musical training at all. they were in fact the ones who invented most of the systems, so they didn't get much education (how teach what hasn't been discovered?) i HAVE an open mind, it's just that when I make music, and use some cool-sounding chords and stuff, and the guy i was talking about before comes and says "ah, you've used the chromatic scale(actually.. i've never used a chromatic scale.. they sound strange)," that pisses me off. it's fucking music! as you say: from the heart. |
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When you say 'Basic Music Theory' Do you mean Western music theory or Eastern music Theory or Jamaican bongo theory or Packistani nose flute theory? Which one do you need to know the basics in to be allowed to make music? |
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no, people where taking lessons since before the baroque period (which comes before "classical") |
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in the days of one-tone-music... it isn't much compared to what music theory is today. i believe it was Bach 'n his crew who first started experimenting with major and minor scales? |
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Bach definately took lessons. And he definately taught lessons. Regardless of the state of music theory at the time... there was still a system of composing, and it was taught. then, those people taught, etc, and along the lines, new ideas came... continuing up until present day. giving us our current state of music. none of which would be here, if it wasnt for people learning an old system, and rebeling, creating new systems. The imporant part, is that progress was made, through an understanding of the old, to move on to the new. once the new became old, even newer things could develop. |
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what basis do you have for saying bach took lessons? and most contemporary "musical geniouses" have NEVER had any musical training. least of all the guitar-players who everyone are hailing! "give a guitarplayer sheetmusic, and he will not know what to do with it." |
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Do you need to learn percussion basics to make a rhythm pattern in Reason or a drum machine? |
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um, music history lessons? letters, documents, and books? please list some of these guitar players, out of curiousity. jivver: you dont. and I never said you did. Im just saying, you shouldnt discredit people, who DID take percussion lessons. |
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*and if they are musical geniuses... then they are an exception arnt they? the average person who makes music (even the high skilled ones) are not geniuses. |
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I'm sorry, I'm just messing around.. I'd never discredit someone for learning a craft, the snobishness on both sides is ridiculous, if you really want to educate drunken mastah and talk him around to your way of thinking, 1, it'll take weeks 2,The chances of him saying 'Actually, you're right Zeus, thanks for that' If I were you I'd get on with your film fun and enjoy yourself. |
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you don't really have to be a genious, but odds are: you are more likely to become a genious if you are self-taught. |
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fair enough :-P |
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what a load of twaddle |
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based on what? where are you getting these "facts"? |
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however... I'll argue this to the death 'cos I'm a silly like that. |
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hehe, well, there ya go :D |
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most musical geniouses are untrained. |
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the term 'genius' is banded about everywhere willy nilly, Name 10 of these geniuses that are untrained, shouldn't be too hard. |
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please refer to post #01043966 |
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Aphex Twin Rza My cousin The Beatles (that's four-in-one, actually) Bjørk (except for 3rd-grade piano lessons) El-P Dj Shadow André 3000 ?uestlove |
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What a silly list of poo. |
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None of them are 'Genius' actually most of them use other people to play the basic theory for them as in massive samples and session musicians. |
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well, you would know poo when you see it, wouldn't you. they ARE geniouses, and there's nothing you can do about it! |
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yeah... I mean, if any on that list... the beatles... they had alot of creativity and great ears... but the beatles had alot of help from George Martin as well. Aphex... yeah he is another creative guy with great ears... but I wouldnt call him a genius. He has some tracks that are just far below par of a "geniuses" output. and he took piano lessons did he not? of course, who knows if he did... that guy just likes talking crap, so who knows for sure. |
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actually, he LOVES talking crap! |
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none of them are geniuses. They might seem like geniuses to you but you're as thick as two short planks. |
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AAAaaa ha ha ha! |
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im just a naturally gifted motherfucker. |
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"i'm a genious in a bottle baby" .sknalp trohs owt sa kciht sa re'uoy tub uoy ot sesuineg ekil mees thgim yehT .sesuineg era meht fo enon !ah ah ah aaaAAA |
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ohhh look, retrograde. |
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que? |
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never mind |
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I completely agree with Zeus. Learning the old, is a way to embark on new terrain in a great way imo. Also-learning real percussion CAN help! Listen to Squarepusher's stuff! |
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jivverdicker is xltronic's resident genius. of course he's also the court jester, but it's important to diversify. |
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