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 (nobody)...and 270 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614103 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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you the man! |
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"Do you deny a blind man his civil rights?" No but you don't let the fucker drive a car. Just like gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. ...besides marriage isn't a civil right, it is a blessed sacrement formalising in the name of god the union between a man and a woman. It just has associated laws politically bolted on. As for ignorant bigotry, you don't know what causes this deviant behaviour yourself, so how can you call others ignorant for holding the views they do. |
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oh come on people |
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"besides marriage isn't a civil right, it is a blessed sacrement formalising in the name of god the union between a man and a woman." but the world isnt christian... plenty of non christian societies still have marriage... alot of times marriage is incorperated into religion... but it can be, and is a seperate thing |
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here's my answer: YES. |
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My point was more that it isn't up to a court to decide whether it is legal or illegal. |
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but, it is ok for a court to decide to make a gay partner inelligible for coverage on a spouse's insurance? |
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another thread ruined by pointless debate |
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I'd tend to agree with that... Part of the problem is the confusion over the term "marriage". I really wish the state "marriage" was called something else, "union" perhaps or something similair. "Marriage" as such ought to be within recognised religions (be they Sikh, Muslim etc. as well as Judaism and Christianity). A marriage between two people of the same (or at least compatible) faith is very different to a state approved marriage. Perhaps if this distinction was made, the church etc. would be prepared to let the heathens have their "gay union" ceremonies without feeling that their institution of marriage was being impinged on... |
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now, see, i'd think GAYS would be anti-bush. i mean all that hair must be quite difficult to circumnavigate when you get down to it. seriously though, if anyone's surprised that bush or most conservatives hate gays and want to strip (huhuhuhuhuh) their rights from them you don't know much about politics or the world. politicians put on a very thin veneer but if you do enough research and just pay attention to the news it's easy to see who's racist, anti-gay, classist, etc. |
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I cant really understand either why 2 gay catholics cannot get married as a sacrament? you think god doesnt bless the love between those two people just because they are both the same sex? I dont care really... I dont think there is any god at all.... but if there were, it wouldnt mind those things for sure so two men or women are deeply religious and catholic, they love eachother, they want to live together forever, they want god to bless their union.... and they cant?? come on its stupid |
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hhahaahahh!!! |
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It does not matter what the cause of homosexuality is. a strong aversion to homosexual behavior based on religous fundamentalist beliefs is by definition bigotry. |
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one important thing you're forgeting is that marriage is nessary by the state and society for the raising of children...regardless of relgious beliefs..hence marriage should be a man and a woman because that's the best enviroment for children... but gay civil unions should be allowed and should have all the rights of marrige with a few key differences... by using the word "marriage" people are disrecpting what many hold dear... you guys get what i'm saying here? |
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You weren't replying to a religious fundamentalist though...you replied to someone calling it a "medical disorder". |
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i know what you are saying but i think this issue goes far beyond vocabulary. and semantics is not a valid reason to deny people equal rights. |
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Anyway...I was taking the piss when I started this thread, I wasn't being serious and didn't expect this big debate thing to spring up. :D |
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I believe that gay couples should have the right to adopt children (if men) or to have them (if women) |
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in an ideal world yes... |
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In an ideal world there would be no need for gays to adopt. |
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yes of course.... they can do that can't they? |
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well more specifically i was replying to the word "disorder." or the term "deviant" when refering to homosexual behavior. both of these terms imply a moral deficiency which I think is ignorance based in a religous or fundamentalist context. i don't doubt that homosexuality might have some medical basis. i just don't think that the behavior is wrong or wicked. |
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I meant ideal within the limits of current reality |
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I think you will find that deviant implies nothing of the sort...unless of course you are ignorant to it's true meaning :P |
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Perhaps, again semantics and context are easily lost in this forum but yo, i don't want to make any enemies here either. I still respect your musical opinion and i suppose that is the only thing that really matters on this message board anyway. no hard feelings. |
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I'm talking entirely from a point of Roman Catholic doctrine here, so please don't flame me. I am simply trying to show the argument from the churches point of view. These are not my views, I am not a Catholic: The Roman Catholic (there are many other sorts of catholicism- people seem to seldom make the distinction as the Roman Catholic church is the largest catholic denomination) church does not view sexual intercourse for and reason other than procreation as "just" in Gods eyes. This is the primary reason that homosexuality is viewed as sinful- it cannot be for procreation... * There are also a few bible passages that expressly forbid (new testament, it was one of the apostles saying it... can't remembe where, but if someone seriously disagrees with me I'll look it up) homosexuality. This also adds to the argument within the whole Christian Church- not just Roman Catholic or Roman Catholic Doctrine adhearing churches. On the subject of should a state "union" (state marriage between a straight or gay couple) as I described convey the same rights as a "religious marriage". That's a tricky one: on the one hand "religious marriage" came first and the laws were attached to that, not the other way around... On the other if it didn't, it would encourage straight non religous couples to pretend to be religious in order to gain the extra benefits a religious marriage would confer (which would be bad for the religion as a whole). There is also the argument (again I would like to stress that this is from a point of view of doctrine not my views) that you cannot, by definition, be a practicing homosexual and a practicing Roman Catholic. The fact that the individuals continue to knowingly engage in sinful behaviour in an unrepentant manner is little different to a person who continues to (unapologetically) have sex with a dog or kills people in the church's eyes. I could go on, but I'll leave it there for now... without wishing to insult people's intelligence or knowledge, I do |
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on a side note i don't think bigorty is based on ignorance... many bigots are quite well informed |
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I doubt few people here would have the requiste background knowledge of Ecclesiatical Law, Doctrine etc. to continue this in a meaningful manner from the Churches point of view :) *There is a lot of debate in the RC church currently about whether the view on non-procreational sex ought to be altered (it's phrased a lot more abstractly than that, but that's the message)... there are a lot of points in favour of the argument (and it's one held even by some RC nuns and priests) that if this was ever changed, the Roman catholic church would have to accept homosexual marriages. There are even some within the church (although they are a very small minority) that believe it is precisely to prevent homosexual marriages being permitted than non-procreational sex (among straight couples- eg just using contraception) continues to be seen as forbidden! |
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hey I wasnt flaming you, sorry if you understood that. its written in the new or old testament: that means nothing to me.... and probably it means nothing to god either gays can love god, gays can be catholic, gay should be able to have a catholic marriage if they want imo |
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I have nothing against gays, I don't really have any real problem with them marrying within their own beleif providing that is what their beleif involves. I also think that gay couples have the right to be protected under the law of the land (wherever that may be) in the same way as married hetrosexual couples. I don't agree with demands for the changing of traditional organised religion to allow gay marriage, as that would fly in a majority of that religions beleivers own beleifs. Personally I don't like religion as I think it always tries suppress peoples ability to beleive in what they truely beleive in. As for gay adoption, I don't beleive it can be allowed as their is still far too much prejudism and misconception out there to homosexuality that it would be unfair to the child. |
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this thread is gay. it should get married to the nekkid thread. |
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If I'm not mistaking, homosexual adoption is a reality in norway. |
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i agree that if a person directly does something that goes against their own faith, then they are being hypocritical. it is confusing to me why a homosexual person would want to associate themselves with a belief system that is strongly opposed to their behavior. |
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I agree with that... but ... it happens |
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As for gay adoption, I don't beleive it can be allowed as their is still far too much prejudism and misconception out there to homosexuality that it would be unfair to the child. I guess i can understand that viewpoint though there are many places, Seattle for example, where the openminded people outnumber the prejudiced. or at least are in great enough numbers that i believe a child raised by gay parents here could develop into a very well adjusted individual. Perhaps this is why it would be a good idea for this kind of legislation to be left up to the individual states. I don't know how it works on your side of the pond though... |
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imagine the offspring!! *gasp* |
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It's up to the tabloid newspapers. If they thought it was OK then it would be OK with the majority of people. Sadly they are quite happy to perpetuate the myth that children would be far more likely to be sexually abused in a gay household than in a straight one. There was a case the other year where a child was adopted by to gay british men in another country (I think it was Australia) and they planned to bring the child back to the UK but where told the child would be stopped from entering. I don't think gay adoption will e allowed in the UK for a long time yet. |
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correction: step child adoptions is legal. If one of the males/females have a child from a previous relationship, the new partner may apply to become a step parent. |
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promiscuous people can argue back by saying that dweebs are no good in bed :) |
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promiscuous people can have their faces burnt off with acid too >:( |
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why would i want to do a thing like that? |
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i dont my gay people...i mind lesbians though :) |
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my????????=mind!!!!!!! |
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I sense a certain underlying logic here :) |
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to finish my participation in this thread I will end as I started: bush is a fucking murderer son of a bitch, I wish he was in prison for all the crimes he´s commited... in the same prison with sadham |
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HAHAHAHAHAHA |
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hey, come on...you have a girlfriend, dont you? leave the rest of them to us :) |
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that was beautiful |
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hey be my guest! :) |
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There are some cultures where homosexuality is commonplace. In fact, I am aware of at least 2 or 3 aboriginal tribes where the most revered member is bisexual. Marriage is a Christian institution and the law should accomodate individual freedom, other religions and the constitution of rights. Banning gay marriage should be against the law, even if it goes against the Church. What the fuck does the Church know anyway? I should stop now. Bush sucks. |
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