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It is being proposed in the UK that police officers will not be allowed to be members of the BNP (far right, but legitimate political party). Now, whilst I'm no fan of the BNP as I deplore rascism, the fact that this is not an illegal terrorist organisation like Combat 18 means that the government should have no right to pass something like this. Imagine if they managed to make it illegal for police officers to vote BNP? By way of comparison, imagine if it was made illegal for labour voting police officers to police picket lines as they may behave in a biased way? Now, it's pretty obvious that if this was passed someone would appeal to EU human rights courts, however, this would force them to reveal themselves as a BNP supporter- in all likelihood, commiting career suicide even if they couldn't be sacked for it and they would be watched like a hawk for rascist behaviour (not to mention that they would receive a biased trial if they were ever accused of it...). This is an obvious cheap attempt to restore faith that the police force is not a rascist institution following the recent expose. Sorry, that is required, but this is not the way to do it. I heard something on the radio earlier, "People who hold right wing views can't bottle it up for ever and will let something slip, it's up to us to be vigilant and watch for behaviour that could suggest far right tendencies." Sounds suspiciously reminiscent of the communist witch hunt in America... |
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I'M RIGHT WING. SOMEBODY SHOOT ME I'M EVIDENTLY EVIL and not just looking out for myself. |
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Oh Boy..blatantly political thread..wait till Ceri sees this... wait.. you ARE Ceri ;) |
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i bet you're not white middle class |
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*I heard something on the radio earlier, "People who hold right wing views can't bottle it up for ever and will let something slip, it's up to us to be vigilant and watch for behaviour that could suggest far right tendencies." teehee |
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Well, you just lost yourself some money. I'm not entirely caucasian in my ethnicity, but close enough. My family weren't middle class when I was a young kid, but I'd say the past decade or so we have been. That this has anything to do with the BNP is irrelevant. I'd of been equally outraged if the same ruling had been made about an extreme leftist party, so long as they were a legitimate political party with no (direct) ties to terrorism. |
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FIGHT THE POWERS! |
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That is interesting, and scary. It's surprising to see that coming from the left, rather than the right, this time 'round though. |
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i wish they had trried to stop people joining the Nazi parrty way back when. |
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I wonder if the irony in that statement is intentional? |
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if they would try to pass something like that overhere, you can bet on it that the leftwing parties would object - simply because it is ofcourse completely undemocratic. |
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Yeah that's the thing... I thought the lefties would actually be leaping to the BNP's defense in this instance. I heard one reasonably liberal commentator agreeing with the BNPs official standpoint (Similair to the one used by Sinn Fein) tha tif there isn't a legitimate political outlet for people with those views (no matter how unpopular they may be) they will resort to illegal behaviour to reach their goals. In this case, it'd mean rascist hardcases (who the BNP do keep in check to some extent- they're very keen to try to keep a semi-respectable image to help appeal to older conserative voters and having skinhead members torching the local indian owned cornershop doesn't help their image) would simply "resort" to mindless violence to show their dislike for other races. Although the BNP will never get in, if there's the chance it might make them keep their noses clean. |
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its better for them to be out in the open where their behaviour can be monitored and controlled |
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HOW CAN WE STOP NIGGAS AND PAKIS IF WE BAN THE BNP FROM INFILTRATING THE PIGS?"!?!!?!?! THE UK IS FOR THE WHITES, NOT SOME FUCKIN INDIAN SETTING UP A CORNER SHOP AND STEALING OUR JOBS!!111111!11 |
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Precisely. |
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well if the voters decide who the goverment is and the goverment decides which policemen they want In a way it's even more democratic because now the voters also indirectly get to decide the political preference of the police... |
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No, because if that was the case, a labour government could make it illegal for people to belong to the conservatives or liberal democrats and that way labour would remain in power, even in a "democracy". |
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No because they don't make the voting itself illegal. Just if you vote for a certain party they don't want you working for them. |
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Tha'ts possibly the funniest thing ever. (Posting your present tomorrow :)) |
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I just think walruses and anteaters should be given constitutional rights and allowed to vote. |
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there is no country in this world that is a true democratic state. they are just very good at pulling the wool over your eyes. We are oblivious and helpless almost as to how things form and happen in governments. |
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hehe thanks chris!! :)!! |
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But the BNP and Labour, or most other parties, are not moral equivalents. The BNP is a Nazi party that denies the Jewish Holocaust and whips up racism and violence against people from ethnic minorities. The left wouldn't defend the BNP and the police's right to join them. Liberals might, but not the left. The left sees the BNP as a threat to democracy. |
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hey, now I don't live in Britain, so please don't all attack me about this comment, cause I don't know the significance of it really... and this is just a question, hopefully adding something to the discussion... even though we have freedom of speetch, and freedom to believe whatever we want, we aren't allowed to force our beliefs on others... if a group of people, say a neo-nazi group, has a set of beliefs which are clearly wrong, shouldn't we put a stop to that? People have a freedom to believe that blacks are dirt, and that Jews should be slaughtered if they want, but when you're talking about a political party, an organized body which is in place to gain control of a country so that it can make it's views a reality, should that really be allowed? Someone believing that blacks are dirt, and Jews should be slaughtered is one thing, but when it becomes a reality the freedom of speetch of the hate group infringes on the fundamental rights and freedoms of Black and Jewish people... like Anus said, the nazi party should've been stopped... if a neo-nazi party started in Canada, and went about everything completely legal, even though they have a right according to their freedom of speetch, and freedoms to believe what they want, I would want them stopped... because their beliefs are wrong... shrug... |
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That's exactly it Funkmaster. We should have the freedom to believe what we want and say what we want, but when any speech or action impinges on the freedom of others then it should be opposed. That is exactly why Nazis should be stopped from spouting their hatred and should be barred from the ranks of the police. I understand the US has laws covering hate crimes and hate speech. What's the situation in Cananda? |
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I'm not sure about the specifics, but I'm pretty sure we do... I'm about 99% percent sure... |
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There's a fine line to be crossed here, even criminals have rights....its whether a case of guilt can be proven against whether a person committed a crime or not...a person/s holding a prejudice against others can't be seen as to upholding the law, can't see basic human rights meaning racial equality so how can they be trusted to make a competant decision on whether to arrest someone if they are already have racial bigotry. There's already enough evidence that people of colour are morely likely to be accused of a crime already... |
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Howver what makes the BNP no better than terrorists, there is state terrorism...in the case of Tony Blair making a case based on WMD's in Iraq. |
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Funkmaster, the problem within your argument lies in the statement "because their beliefs are wrong...". There is no such thing as a wrong belief. Partly, because everyone has their own beliefs, partly because there's no such thing as right or wrong. They have every right to believe that and express their beliefs as you have to believe what you believe, but they are not 'wrong', they are simply what you believe is wrong. To say you'd want them stopped because you don't agree with their beliefs is ignorant and oppressive. I don't agree with the BNP, but I'd never say "they are wrong, they SHOULD be stopped", because it's nothing more than an opinion. |
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Relativism is bollocks mate. How can everyone have an equally valid opinion? The BNP ARE wrong when they say the Jewish Holocaust never happened, or that it was exaggerated. |
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hey man, you can get philisophical with me all you want... but the fact is, Hitlers beliefs were MORALLY wrong... ok, so I should've put in MORALLY... but I just assumed people would understand that... I don't care what anyone says to me on the contrary, a racist person who thinks their race is better then another, is flat out wrong... everyone is entitled to believe what they like... but there is a different in believing that Frosted Flakes are the best cereal, and believing that Jews should be killed... Jews should not be killed, and anyone who thinks otherwise I'd like to kick their ass... racist beliefs ARE wrong... believing that Frosted Flakes are the best cereal is a matter of opinion... |
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ok, so I read your post again, and basically what you're saying is that you don't have any racist beliefs, and you don't think they are morally right, but it's just your opinion, so you're not really sure and could be wrong... that's just stupid! |
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no, he's just taking "all is opinion" stance, that's all... which is generally a healthy stance... but I myself believe "Do What Thou Wilt" wherein your Will cannot transgress on the Will of another -- which Racism tends to do. |
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I can see how this is dodgy but then if a person's beliefs (ie racism) make them unsuitable for a job (being a pig) then one has to go... it is a fine line between freedom of speech / beliefs and those beliefs infringing other peoples rights |
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