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dostoyevsky
 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-09 13:37 [#00856312]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular



was/is/will always be better than TOLSTOY!


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-09 13:39 [#00856316]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker



Not if you like a good story uncluttered by heavy
introspection and general tripped out wierdness. May I
remind you that tolstoy wrote "A Confession", perhaps one of
the most honest accounts of aging and the eternal battle
with life great questions ever!


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-09 13:40 [#00856318]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



better in what way?? :)


 

offline Fuckwagon from Dallas (United States) on 2003-09-09 13:40 [#00856319]
Points: 1304 Status: Lurker



agreed. what did tolstoy even do... war and peace?


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-09 13:43 [#00856328]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to Fuckwagon: #00856319



Anna Karenina, A Confession, War and Peace, The Gospel in
Brief, The Death of Ilan Ilych...


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-09 13:44 [#00856329]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular



he whips tolstoy's ass !!1 best russian novelist EVER ! the
russian dickens!! have you not read 'the house of the dead'
or 'the idiot' ?????

I just bought 'Poor Folk and other Stories' which I am
looking forward to reading !"!!


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-09 13:47 [#00856335]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to marlowe: #00856329



Hey, I never said Dostoyevsky was shit... he simply wasn't
as grand and epic as tolstoy. He didn't shine throughout his
life as the symbol of the Russian people like Tolstoy. He
didn't commit himself to social reform as much as tolstoy
and his style owes much to Gogol.


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-09 13:48 [#00856336]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



only thing dostoyevsky beats tolstoy is in keeping it short
and to the point :)


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-09 13:49 [#00856338]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00856335



who was it who spent years in a Siberian penal colony doing
hard labour because of being linked to a revolutionary
group? And you're telling me that Tolstoy's boring works are
more grand and philosophical and gritty than Dostoyevsky?
You, sir, are insane!


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-09 13:53 [#00856344]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



i guess he was busy doing that hard labour...


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-09 13:53 [#00856345]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to marlowe: #00856338



Did I ever say one was better than the other? Really, you
can't compare... two radically different minds... but in my
opinion on a par with eachother when it comes to pure
intellectual skills. Tolstoy was one hell of a storyteller
and a fabulous spirit! He may not have suffered as much as
Dost but he was a troubled soul, fighting against the
inherited demons of a false orthodox religion, against the
terrible superstitions of an oppressed people. Maybe you
should get into Tolstoy's later peiod. After the
storytelling...


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-09 13:55 [#00856349]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00856345



. . . maybe you should READ some Dostoyevsky - you went on
how much of a thinker Tolstoy was, better than Dostoyevsky,
whereas if you had read 'crime and punishment' 'the gambler'
'the idiot' 'the house of the dead' 'notes from underground'
'the brothers karamazov' you would realise you were actually
describing Dostoyevsky, the greatest Russian novelist EVER !


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-09 13:57 [#00856351]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



we should do a poll about this...


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-09 13:57 [#00856352]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to marlowe: #00856349



you read more tolstoy, i read more dost, speak again in a
couple of months, deal?


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-09 14:00 [#00856356]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00856352



i was going to suggest the same thing myself. i'll get back
to you then, then! :D shall we now retire to the education
thread?


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-09 14:00 [#00856357]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



dont think couple of months will be enough to get into
either of them hehe, except if you read really fast


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-09 14:01 [#00856358]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to tolstoyed: #00856357



I casually read over 300 pages per day - I'll save 'war and
fucking peace' for last, since it's very boring.


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-09 14:04 [#00856363]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator | Followup to marlowe: #00856358



uhh, 300 per day is plenty...is there anything else that you
do beside hanging on xltronic and reading? :)


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-09 14:06 [#00856365]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker



lol


 

offline MachineofGod from the land of halo's (United States) on 2003-09-09 16:01 [#00856527]
Points: 3088 Status: Lurker



theyre both superb and thats all there is to it. im reading
the double by dostoevsky now actually. im reading
ressurection next by tolstoy. russians are the best
authors(bulgakov, gogol, turgenev, pushkin, tolstoy,
dostoevsky, solzhenitsyn, yevtushenko, chekhov, zamyatin
etc)


 

offline MachineofGod from the land of halo's (United States) on 2003-09-09 16:02 [#00856529]
Points: 3088 Status: Lurker



agreed?


 

offline tallyho from Vladivostok (Russia) on 2003-09-09 18:21 [#00856604]
Points: 1300 Status: Lurker | Followup to MachineofGod: #00856527



it's amazing to see great Russian authors mentioned here on
the board :)


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-10 04:06 [#00856822]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to tolstoyed: #00856363



. . . don't forget my shaolin kung fu! :P

I just bought me a punch-bag yesterday, so I'm looking
forward to imagining that it's Jarworski there instead of
the punch-bag! ;)


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-10 04:32 [#00856833]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to MachineofGod: #00856529



agreed! i live quite close to Turgenev's russian datcha in
Bougival (west of paris) actually... nice place!


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-10 05:17 [#00856849]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular



I only started this thread in the first place as a joke
response to a post by MistahKurtz in another thread ;)


 

offline grinningcat from london (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-10 05:49 [#00856866]
Points: 1073 Status: Lurker



if you want to look all clever when having a discussion,
mention this 'dostkayefski' guy they say!



 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-10 06:43 [#00856916]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to grinningcat: #00856866



it really does work, honest.


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-10 06:55 [#00856926]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to grinningcat: #00856866



no no, you have to mention chomsky or foulcault...


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-10 07:07 [#00856938]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00856926



Dosotoyevsky strikes the right balance between
intellectualism and identification with the hoi-polloi !


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 06:08 [#00858364]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



i like tolstoy better. more lucid


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-11 06:15 [#00858375]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00858364



don't besmirch my thread with mentioning 'Tolstoy' !!!


 

offline mortsto-x from Trondheim/Bodø (Norway) on 2003-09-11 06:20 [#00858379]
Points: 8062 Status: Lurker



I vote for Dostojevskij


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 06:22 [#00858382]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #00858375 | Show recordbag



you started it yourself, you besmircher you!

tolstoy


 

offline Ceri JC from I'm too old for this shit (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-11 06:25 [#00858385]
Points: 23502 Status: Moderator | Followup to marlowe: #00856822 | Show recordbag



Fitting my kickbag up in the garage is my next project (once
my network is sorted!) it has been sadly neglected the past
year and I need to get back into training for kung fu which
I'll resume in October.

Don't forget that other great Russian writer- Vladimir
Nabokov. Just because his books aren't inaccessibly long,
doesn't mean they're not obscenely complex...


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-11 06:30 [#00858397]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to Ceri JC: #00858385



yes, I like Nabokov... in fact, I just recently bought a
book by him, 'penin' I think it's called.


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 06:31 [#00858399]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



yes, see: that's it. war and peace maybe a bit long but it's
very accesible, because it's 'lucid'. contrary to the thick
stuff dostojevsky writes, which lasts pretty long too


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 06:32 [#00858402]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



i'll be doing nabokov, yes, didnt know he was russian,
thought polish, silly me!


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-11 06:35 [#00858405]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00858399



dostoyevsky isn't hard to read. It flows and it is intensely
interesting and thought-provoking.


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 06:39 [#00858416]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



i for instance liked, among much, the part in war and peace
when pierre finds himself suddenly wanting this chick he
grew up with when looking down on her breasts and smelling
her and he knows that he cant escape the future: he'll kiss
her, marry have kids and there's nothing he can do about it.
there's pages (a wopping 2) that i've manually copied and
sent to friends!
i didnt get in the flow of dostojewski: guilt and punishment
was a torture to read for me. i only liked the part where
this woman snaps and goes on the street with her kids and
starts to be a street clown artists. well and some other
stuff


 

offline Ceri JC from I'm too old for this shit (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-11 07:16 [#00858486]
Points: 23502 Status: Moderator | Followup to marlowe: #00858397 | Show recordbag



Ah, Pnin. That's actually on my shelf in front of me at the
moment... awaiting reading. I'll start it after finishing
Steven King "Dreamcatcher".


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-11 07:27 [#00858508]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00858416



wow, that REALLY sounds like a fascinating two pages


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 07:31 [#00858519]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #00858508 | Show recordbag



no it's others then i described i'll post them in whole so
it wont get screwed up though my in-depth analysis.
anywho: when you had read that part you would have gone: yes
that was some great part big points out there


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-09-11 07:33 [#00858527]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00858519



I doubt it very much. Have you read any other Dostoyevsky
apart from CRIME AND PUNISHMENT? because most of the people
who are decrying dostoyevsky seem to have evidently not read
much of his work, else they wouldn't even consider typing
some of the things they did


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-11 07:51 [#00858584]
Points: 22072 Status: Regular | Followup to marlowe: #00858527 | Show recordbag



yes, the idiot too: i liked that even less.
not entirely uninteresting, just hard to read. stuff like
that makes me wonder why the novell is THE important genre
and not essays or the like. he has interesting ideas but the
story doesnt do really much for me..


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-11 16:50 [#00859153]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to marlowe: #00858527



Ok boyo, i hope you have made progress, notes from the
underground is already done and down... More to come...


 

offline MachineofGod from the land of halo's (United States) on 2003-09-11 20:24 [#00859370]
Points: 3088 Status: Lurker



i just got the man from the ussr + three plays by nabokov
for $2. i have ada as wlel but havent read either. i plan
on getting lolita and reading that first.


 

offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2003-10-30 13:17 [#00925841]
Points: 24342 Status: Regular



OK I've bought 'Resurrection' (Tolstoy) recently, and
started reading it a couple of days ago -- engrossing, very
very engrossing! I am really thoroughly enjoying it!


 

offline welt on 2003-10-30 13:41 [#00925873]
Points: 2010 Status: Lurker



dostoevsky is god
kafka was influenced by him a lot


 

offline MachineofGod from the land of halo's (United States) on 2003-11-29 19:23 [#00970815]
Points: 3088 Status: Lurker



kafka is awesome too. i have the trial and the complete
stories(all longer stories, short stories and parables).
all im missing is the castle and amerika now.

by the way, anyone read A Raw Youth by Dostoevsky? it was
just newly translated now titled The Adolescent...wondering
if anyones read the original\the new translation.


 

offline happy cycling from berlin on 2003-11-29 19:59 [#00970841]
Points: 2784 Status: Lurker



dostoevsky? is he on warp?

but seriously: literature doesn't get (much) better than
'notes from the underground'


 


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