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The US is turning into a 3rd world country... Everybody knows (or do they?) US is doing no good, and is not even progressing in the right direction. It's not possible to say "I'm proud of being an American" without living in a brainwashed-fantasy world... Are you doing what you can to help? "Many third world countries now have higher literacy rates than the U.S." "Over 30% of Americans are on the borderline of poverty." "there has been at least a 35-45% increase in homelessness and poverty. The increases have come over the last two years with the biggest increases being in 2002 and especially in the first six months of 2003." "The average wait for public housing was 19 months; the average wait for Section 8 certificates and vouchers was 21-23 months. 45% of cities have stopped taking public housing applications in at least one assisted housing program due to extensive waiting lists." "President Bush claimed that his FY2004 budget "helps America meet its goals both at home and overseas." Yet, upon examination of the budget numbers, the goals of many Americans appear not to have been included." "At a time when unprecedented numbers of families and individuals are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless, the President proposed no new resources to meet their needs. His budget maintains funding levels for most homeless assistance programs; levels so woefully inadequate that each year record numbers of people are turned away from life-sustaining services." In releasing his FY2004 budget, President Bush claimed "human compassion cannot be summarized in dollars and cents." Neither, can the untold suffering of the 1.35 million children whose lives will be disrupted by loss of housing and health care this year, or the sorrow of their parents, who struggle against the odds to provide stability and hope, or the frustration and pain of those who work but cannot afford housing, or the fear of those whose health condit |
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----- If you haven't read this yet: "US Homelessness and Poverty Rates Skyrocket While Billions are Spent Overseas on Occupation" How apathetic is america? discuss |
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proper link: |
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"How apathetic is america?" erm, no comment... |
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you read the article? |
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no, just making a no-comment comment |
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why not read the article? |
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oh say can you see...... |
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when in Rome :) |
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sick |
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nice to see people notice this topic, but why does nobody answer any of the quesitons? I am not sure you care at all... |
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Be thankfull you get replies. My topics get about 7 half-hearted responses before everyone gives up on them. As for your points... I suppose all that might be true, but there's probably an equal number of contrary points to prove the US is at the fore of technological and social advancements. I guess I'm just not in a constructive mood just now. It's either apathy or attack :/\ |
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The homeless are almost always druggies and drunkards. Those who are illiterate are probably pig ignorant in the first place and choose to skive school etc. A lot of these people can't be helped. But homelessness is unsightly and not good for morale, so homeless people need to be cleared off the street cleaned up and put back into society afterall its only for their good and our good. |
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it basically makes a lot of points people know already.. |
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When people say shit like "how apethetic is america" it doesn't really make sense. It's isn't america. It's the american government. I can't find a job because businesses hire people who can't speak english even, while the government is giving tax breaks to the rich and is too busy "making peace" all over the world to notice that the people it governs are getting pissed off. I've been considering moving to canada. |
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Seeya. Canada want you, they do. Lol. |
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"I suppose all that might be true, but there's probably an equal number of contrary points to prove the US is at the fore of technological and social advancements." does it really matter if they have some advancements? It's more important that the population can live their lives properly. If you read the article you also noticed a lot of cities have made it "illegal to be homeless"... More than 60 cities are introducing measures to make it illegal to beg or sleep on the streets, to sit in a bus shelter for more than an hour, or to walk across a parking lot if the person doesn't have a car parked there. And what is left to do then? This article was a lot about that America spends too much $$$ on the military... If the US took just 25% of their annual military budget, it could go a long way to wiping out hunger and homelessness around the world. Just 10% of our military budget spent yearly on America could give every high school graduate a college education for four years." Numbers are just numbers. But if you understand that 'a life' (the life of somebody) is unvaluable you will think beyond thoose nubmers, and everythings becomes so much more personal... But the Bush regime doesn't understand. If it did, we would see a great america. But we don't. "Increasingly in America, private foundations and organizations are stepping in to take up the slack that the government fails to adjust for. Most charities are reporting budget shortfalls due to the government cutting their funding and resources. If this crisis continues, we are in danger of actually having worse hunger and homelessness than some third world countries." |
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"When people say shit like "how apethetic is america" it doesn't really make sense. It's isn't america. It's the american government." I don't even get what you're saying. America today is what america is today. Don't blame the regime. You voted that nice regime into control with your excellent votingsystem. America has always been in trouble, though now it's like one of the worst times ever (well not really, it's been through soo much since the start). Perhaps it would be a good thing to split up america like they did to the Soviet Union. |
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Key_Secret, Is it suppose to be cool to sleep on the street? I wish we had laws like that over here. Whats the big deal so they sleep in a cell or get taking somewhere proper to sleep? Hardly a big infringement of their rights. Homelessness - people don't want it, they don't want to see it, its bad for morale and yes it does show that society doesn't care if we just have people lying around on the streets. It could be worse you could be in Hong Kong. There once you become limbless or criple, people don't really care and homelessness becomes the next step. You want to live in a society like that, so get over it. |
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ja dom lägger ner för mycket på militären.. dom har ju satt sig i den position själva. rädda för livet! |
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here we go again. fuckin same old same old political "debates". I'm gonna go study. |
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Key_Secret, What the hell would you know about the states? You don't even live there. You do talk shit. Just because in Sweden you like to watch porn on TV and run around nude or whatever you suddenly believe you've got a serious grip on world affairs. Gimme a break. Lol. |
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Oh I'm not denying that these things are wrong or untrue, I just think that sometimes these types of article turns a blind eye to positive aspects in order to overwhelm. You're right, things should be better, but it's more than just "the way the country is". It's the border between freedom and anarchy. Too much freedom of thought/speech/whatever produces anarchy. I'm not suggesting restricting democracy or whatever. I'm not suggesting anything. In fact, I'm not really bothered. I'll live another few years maybe and in that time I'll change nothing. I know my limits. When I'm gone the world will carry on regardless. er, I think I've lost the plot again... |
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promo you are such a twat, maybe if you hadn't had such an easy ride in your life you'd have more empathy towards other people not just blanket predjudice. |
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well what can I say? |
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xceque, No I think you've got some ok ideas. Makes a change from the usual rot we get on this board. :-) |
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diablo, Hey relax. Lol. Everyone has it hard chum its all relative. Lighten up. |
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"You voted that nice regime into control with your excellent votingsystem." Thats nice and all, except it's not my voting system. Don't tell me it's my fault the government is shit. You don't live here, regardless of whether you have or not. Why does everybody always have to sit around and tell americans what is wrong with there country? I live here, I see these things more than anyone outside the US does. I think it's unfair for anyone who doesn't live in the US to critisize. |
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You meant "not denying that these things are wrong or true" didn't you? |
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yes |
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Duble0Syx, I don't criticise the States. I'm very pro States. |
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Actually, I don't know. I've lost myself in double-negatives. |
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Is it suppose to be cool to sleep on the street? sorry... I don't understand. I don't think anybody wants to live on the streets of a city. I mean it's oK to live in e.g. the jungle or a forest if one has food, but in cities food costs, and homeless people they don't get so much money. I wish we had laws like that over here. Whats the big deal so they sleep in a cell or get taking somewhere proper to sleep? Hardly a big infringement of their rights. No sane person would want to be homeless in a city. But not all people are sane... "An average of 23% suffer from mental illness, 38% suffer from substance abuse, 10% are veterans, and 22% are employed." ... however they are in need of help. No person who is in no danger of hurting anybody should be looked up. (btw prisons shouldn't be about locking up, but that's another topic)... Homelessness - people don't want it, they don't want to see it, its bad for morale and yes it does show that society doesn't care if we just have people lying around on the streets. It's not possible just to start *caring* but I think it's weird not to care. This should be taken care of by the people in power, since they are responsible for the society and everything that happens within. It could be worse you could be in Hong Kong. There once you become limbless or criple, people don't really care and homelessness becomes the next step. When we are discussing the situation of one country, you shouldn't make an example of a country that might have an even worse situation. We are discussing the situation of USA. Everything could be worse, I know, but instead let's discuss what things can be done to make things better. |
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do you know what "3rd world" means? cus the U.S. does not fit the discription, no matter how much you dislike it if youre gonna criticize it, theres no need to resort to gross exagerations a lot of these statistics youre quoting aren't clear 35-45% increase in homelessness and poverty? whats the definition of poverty? RELATIVE poverty? (below half the marginal income of the country) REAL poverty? (cant afford shoes or food) do you know? are any of these compared to other 1st world countries? 3rd world countries? like literacy rates? 1.35 million kids in a population oif something like 280 million? how does THAT compare with other countries? i just think this is stupid cus its pointing out all these really big sounding numbers like that alone is supposed to convince us how can these mean anything at all without being compared to the rest of the world??? any country with a large population is gonna have big numbers when it comes to ANY statistic "If the US took just 25% of their annual military budget, it could go a long way to wiping out hunger and homelessness around the world. " it could? HOW long of a way?? what does that even mean?? hm.... lets sayyyy...... 25%, yeah that sounds like a nice number what could it actually DO? youre being pretty vague/meaningless |
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"We are discussing the situation of USA. Everything could be worse, I know, but instead let's discuss what things can be done to make things better. " but you AREN'T discussing what things can be done to make thigns better! and everything could be worse, but we shouldn't acknowledge that? we should complain about the best place and ignore the ppl who are far worse off? yeah, good point thats the way to tackle the real problems |
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Key_Secret, They aren't been taken off the street because they're deemed a threat. Although you have to be careful because they're on the edge and some of them can just flip. But lets get real a lot of homeless people beg and they may even have a flat and property but they make their money from begging. Trust me I've seen it happen in the flesh. A lot of people just beg for money and they spend it on booze or a quick fix. Clearing up people off the street is a bloody good idea. Its good because it stops their bad ways full stop. Its a hardline approach but it solves the problem. I'm sick of all the bullshit leftie debating crud going on. They never have any serious solution. This way things get done. Trust me these people choose to be homeless. Really there is no excuse in the 21st century for someone in a 1st world country to be homeless, none whatsoever. So I really have no sympathy for homeless people. They just don't have any serious excuse to be on the street. |
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Thats nice and all, except it's not my voting system. Don't tell me it's my fault the government is shit. No I defineatly don't. It's the governemnts fault the government is shit. If they had done good stuff - they wouldn't be shit. The people who voted for the Bush can't really be blamed either - they voted for what they thought would be the best (but I really don't understand them). However if people think Bush is doing a good job - they don't really know what's going on in the US or in other countries (because of the US). You don't live here, regardless of whether you have or not. Why does everybody always have to sit around and tell americans what is wrong with there country? I live here, I see these things more than anyone outside the US does. I think it's unfair for anyone who doesn't live in the US to critisize. yes you're right, and in a way I agree. I just think it's time for the US to radically change to something good for exchange. I read stuff like this everyday, and it's depressing, since behind thoose numbers, like I said, are people; millions of people. But in a way I don't agree with you saying that. I'd wish you would agree with me, or prove me wrong. I mean it's nothing wrong in hating things about your country. Countries means nothing - it's the people inside them that counts. Countries are just a place on earth marked up with unnatural borders. And that needs to be realised. Am I confusing you? |
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i think the U.S. is extremely over-criticized compared to other first world countries like they're all innocent communist utopias in comparisson yeah, the US is the only place that doesn't treat its poor well, and goes to war obviously, im not necessarily saying that none of the criticism is valid, just that like 90% of the criticism i hear from social/political activists is targeted on only one place |
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"Countries are just a place on earth marked up with unnatural borders. And that needs to be realised" truth! |
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In the US's voting system people really only have 2 choices for president, though there are countless others. I chose niethor bush or whats his name. Things in the US do need to change, but not everybody can be blamed for it. Children are starving in every country, and in largy percentages in many. Everybody in the US has been raised to be scared of everything and to kill what scares them. Everynight on the news all they talk about is murders and war. Obviously this is not going to have a positve outcome. The media needs to stop scaring the shit out of people, and the government needs to be re-organized to not be so damn biased. |
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nice to see people reply.... It wasn't my "description", I was refering to the article. if youre gonna criticize it, theres no need to resort to gross exagerations a lot of these statistics youre quoting aren't clear 35-45% increase in homelessness and poverty? whats the definition of poverty? RELATIVE poverty? (below half the marginal income of the country) REAL poverty? (cant afford shoes or food) do you know? Why do you ask me these questions? The answers were in the article (on the bottom of the page there were links from where are statistics origined) this is how they measure poverty: are any of these compared to other 1st world countries? 3rd world countries? like literacy rates? I don't like comparing with other countries, I know what US is capable of, and if they just did, for once, decided to make things better for the poor/almost poor, things would be much better. 1.35 million kids in a population oif something like 280 million? how does THAT compare with other countries? what's the matter with you? 1.35 million kids is A LOT OF kids! And what are going to happen to them in the future? I don't care how many people live in the country, that shouldn't be the issue. Are you saying US is so big it's ok if it has some problems with millions of people (just because it's less than 1% of the population)? It should be 0% of the population. Any country with a large population is gonna have big numbers when it comes to ANY statistic any country that either's too big, or just have a bad regime unable to take care of the country. it could? HOW long of a way?? what does that even mean?? hm.... lets sayyyy...... 25%, yeah that sounds like a nice number what could it actually DO? youre being pretty vague/meaningl |
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(continue:) I think you're questioning too much about my quotes. It's like you didn't read the article (I only put them there to start a discussion) and look at the bottom of the page for links. |
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Key I like you a lot, but I think this is the most insulting thing I've heard. "It's not possible to say "I'm proud of being an American" without living in a brainwashed-fantasy world... " I'm sorry mate, but to me, you sound like a gigantic asshole when you say that and I don't want to think of you that way, but you have no right to say that about me. If you really want to debate country politics, we can debate them, but when you say the place I call my home can do no good in the world, and try and make me feel ashamed at myself for being an American, I consider that childish and low, and will not respond but to tell you so. |
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and everything could be worse, but we shouldn't acknowledge that? we should complain about the best place and ignore the ppl who are far worse off? yeah, good point thats the way to tackle the real problems Things can always be worse, and they can in many cases be better to. But can't we just discuss US right now, and not bring in other countries? Few countries are alike, and the US is like no other country. |
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but you have no right to say that about me Actually, he has a perfect right to say that, which is what free speech is all about. But push it a bit and you get responses like yours (no insult or offense intended at all, though cos it's all perfectly natural). If you take that on a national scale your system of government is going to strain. You can't have everybody doing what they want all the time or it'll be anarchy. (Take this MB as an example in miniature). When you get so far the country's infrastructure develops holes... like unemployment, homelessness, poor education, street violence etc. Can't blame the government, they have plenty to deal with, and they have to do it with the constraints of the law and funds. (Though I'm sure they have agendas that care little for people, and they have their own personal foibles as individuals) Can't blame the people, they can only be what they are within the culture they're a part of. And don't forget that the government is made up of "the people". Though I think the problem lies more in the people than the government, it's not something that can be easily changed. It's got how it is by a gradual process like erosion, and it'll take time and effort from everyone to put it right. Or a big bomb or eugenics. And no-one wants those :D I'm sure I've left stuff out, and been overly simplistic, but I'm not about to type an essay here. |
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sorry... I'm really sorry for you taking it that way. First I want to explain and to tell you it was a thing I wrote to start a discussion. E.g. there are things I like about america, but I don't need to write them in the first message, since I want you people to respond to this and tell me why you disagree with that statement. If you really want to debate country politics, we can debate them, but when you say the place I call my home can do no good in the world, and try and make me feel ashamed at myself for being an American, I consider that childish and low, and will not respond but to tell you so. Nobody should be ashamed of being born in any country. It's not a decision you make. Also I am not saying that US can't do no good things! Perhaps I didn't say it enough, but I believe the US has potential to change things pretty easaly (e.g. by just making changes in the budget), and that's why it's so sad the situation is like it is. to explain my statement: "It's not possible to say "I'm proud of being an American" without living in a brainwashed-fantasy world... " How can you be proud of being an American when the country has so many problems? Another problem here is that, I think, nobody should be proud of any country. Be proud of your family, yourself, and the choices you make in your life. And be proud of the land which is your country (if it's taken care of), and the culture (if you like it). If America is what it is - because of you - then be proud. But is it really like this because of you? America is a big country with big problems, and I don't think they're anything to be proud of. Again, I don't think I make my point clear hear how I feel about america (it may look like I really dislike it), but just ask me, and please share more of your feelings. again, I'm sorry. |
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What kind of responses were you expecting to a debate who's starting point was “let's talk about how sucky america is.”? with a thread filled with such bias, conjecture, and vague statistics i can't see how you would expect an intelligent debate. This thread = bantha fodder |
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but we went from talking politics about things you don't like about another coutnry, to blanket judgements about that country without any defense of that country. Everyone hates the French cuz they don't fight, they just hoist the white flag. What has Sweden brought me besides ugly volvos that doctors drive. Those are third world countries because they are small, insignificant, and if you are from there, you should be ashamed. ----------- that's obviously idiotic to say. I take offense as you claim I shouldn't because NORMALLY this mb can generate educated debates. If some asshole said I should be ashamed to be American, I would just walk away. Here I feel we can talk about this, and I am expressing astonishment at being told I can have no pride in where I live or the government that protects me. From other people, I would expect this, but not from Key or anyone else. Don't tread on me because you don't like something, that gets no where. Talk about it like you care and don't insult me, and some things may come to light that you overlooked or didn't know before. Don't slag me off cuz of where I'm from....... |
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Trust me I've seen it happen in the flesh. A lot of people just beg for money and they spend it on booze or a quick fix. again, I think addicts should be helped, and not end up on the streets. Really there is no excuse in the 21st century for someone in a 1st world country to be homeless, none whatsoever. So I really have no sympathy for homeless people. They just don't have any serious excuse to be on the street. They have excuse cause it wasn't a choice. did you read the article at all? This is a guess of mine, but I think once you're bumped of the "society" it's hard to get back in. You can be bumped off because of lots of reasons, many of which the article mentions. Addiction is stupid, but it's not something you choose. If you're addicted to anything - you need help. But when families who previously had a home become homeless - you can't really call that a "choice". I really think you should put yourself in that situation for a moment. It's a horrible situation nobody deserves to be in. |
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This is more what I expected from you: "America is a big country with big problems" That isn't a personal attack, and we can debate it. I just never expected to be treated like a Nazi for living in Germany, so to speak. |
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