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Death
 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 19:57 [#02575292]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular



Life is certainly directed towards death. So that's a clue
that death might be important. What role does death play in
your life? How do you prepare for dying?


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-04-21 19:58 [#02575293]
Points: 11255 Status: Regular



ensuring my socks are on properly


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 20:21 [#02575296]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular



death yea you know I'm bout dat my heidigga


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 20:26 [#02575297]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular



Visualizin' the realism of life in actuality
Fuck who's the baddest, a person's status depends on salary
And my mentality is money-orientated
I'm destined to live the dream for all my peeps who never
made it
‘Cause yeah, we were beginners in the hood as Five
Percenters
But somethin' must've got in us, ‘cause all of us turned
to sinners
Now some restin' in peace and some are sittin' in San
Quentin
Others, such as myself, are tryin' to carry on tradition
Keepin' this Schweppervescent street ghetto essence inside
us
'Cause it provides us with the proper insight to guide us
Even though we know, somehow we all gotta go
But as long as we leavin' thievin'
We'll be leavin' with some kind of dough
So, until that day we expire and turn to vapors
Me and my capers will be somewhere stackin' plenty papers
Keepin' it real, packin' steel, gettin' high
‘Cause life's a bitch and then you die


 

offline mermaidman from the pacific ocean on 2019-04-21 20:27 [#02575298]
Points: 5001 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575296



is dat a racial slur against germans


 

offline mermaidman from the pacific ocean on 2019-04-21 20:30 [#02575299]
Points: 5001 Status: Regular



or a greeting between german philosophers


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-04-21 20:30 [#02575300]
Points: 13642 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575297



Sleep is the cousin of death


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 20:35 [#02575303]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular



You only scared to die when you ain't livin
right,man


I'm with Talib Kweli (and L. Wittgenstein) and take fear of
death as a clue that there's something wrong with how one
lives life


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 20:38 [#02575305]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to mermaidman: #02575299



nietzsche gang reprazent


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 20:46 [#02575306]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575303



I dunno man there are lots of ways to be fearless and also a
complete idiot with no appreciation of the value or
significance of anything

maybe fear exists for a reason, maybe it's a load bearing
emotion.


 

offline RussellDust on 2019-04-21 20:50 [#02575308]
Points: 13642 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02575300



It’s a Nas lyric, never mind.


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 21:01 [#02575310]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575306



Mere lack of fear of death is certainly no proof that one
lives life in the right way. It would at best be a necessary
condition, not a suffifcient condition, to determine
wheether one's level of living life in the right way.

But there's, so it seems ot be, a certain calm that comes
from integrity - from one's actions being in alignment with
that which one truly considers valuable - that minimizes
fear of death.

.... Now: Could you have the subjective experience integrity
and have really bizarre values like an Islamist? I'm
doubtful. But it would be very difficult to proove.


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 21:02 [#02575311]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular



MINUS "wheether"


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-04-21 21:04 [#02575313]
Points: 11255 Status: Regular



my best stuff comes from when i'm simply in the moment, a
flow state, and worrying about death is more like reminding
myself to pay my electric bill


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 21:06 [#02575314]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02575313



Do you feel like you have a "self" during that which you
call 'flow state'? Or is the sense of self also diminished?


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 21:10 [#02575315]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575310



I think the problem with death is, it's like when you're
settling down to work on something or read a good book and
the phone rings and you're like "sweet jesus what is it now"
and it's something so so stupid except the call never ends
and you're dead

not sure how integrity helps with that?


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-04-21 21:12 [#02575316]
Points: 11255 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575314



there is tension, urgency, and adrenaline even, sometimes.
like, when i'm making music, programming, driving...
writing. there is definitely a self, but it's totally
absorbed in the task.

i really do have to remind myself to pay the electric
bill... and other things... and i'll do so. but my brain is
always squirming to get away from all this, to drift back
off into an alpha wave state and build machines or something


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 21:13 [#02575318]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02575316



what are you trying to escape from

could it be...

yourself?????


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-04-21 21:15 [#02575320]
Points: 11255 Status: Regular



would you have an easy time being me?


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 21:21 [#02575321]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02575320



how much of me do I bring to the table in this scenario


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 21:23 [#02575323]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575315



What makes the difference, I guess, is the concept of
absolute values.

Let's say you subscribe to absolute values. Let's say it's
an absolute value that you save the lives of as many
children as possible. ... Now if you live your life doing
just that, your life consists in the actualization of
absolute values. So your life's actions then are absolutely
valuable, too. And since they are absolutely valuable not
even death can de-value them.

If you'd remain on the merely theoretical level, it could
seem like a weird word-game. But the proof is in the
pudding. And people (as diverse as rappers like Talib Kweli
and gay philosophers fighting in World War I like Ludwig
Wittgenstein and many others) really have
salvation-experiences once they subscribe to absolute values
and try to actualize them.


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 21:38 [#02575324]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575323



it's funny how often the absolute values guys get caught
with their dick in a kid, or doing a genocide


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 21:49 [#02575326]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575324



Are you an "absolute value guy"? Would you for instance
agree that it's an absolute value that human beings
shouldn't rape other human beings? If you don't think it's
an absolute value, can you specify the conditions under
which rape would be valuable? (if there are no conditions,
then it's an absolute value)


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 21:57 [#02575328]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575326



what if there was about to be a nuclear holocaust and the
only way I could prevent it is by raping a terrorist to make
him give me the nuclear codes


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 22:03 [#02575330]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575328



.. I would grant you that scenario. But could there be
conditions under which it would be valuable to rape another
human being who doesn't pose a substantial 'threat'? Could
there be conditions under which which it is valuable to rape
an, as it were, 'innocent' person?


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 22:04 [#02575331]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular



it's like the trolley problem, but with more anal rape


 

offline mohamed on 2019-04-21 22:06 [#02575333]
Points: 27692 Status: Addict | Show recordbag



14 years old age you get arrested, i heard it on the radio


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 22:07 [#02575334]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575330



yeah ok let's say the terrorist enjoys being raped and
laughs it off so I have to rape the terrorist's extremely
innocent wife to psychologically terrorize him enough to
give me the nuclear codes


 

offline Indeksical from Phobiazero Damage Control (United Kingdom) on 2019-04-21 22:07 [#02575335]
Points: 9794 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag



Everyday I worry about dying, thinking it will happen any
moment.

It's really starting to get to me.


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 22:07 [#02575336]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to mohamed: #02575333



I am glad you heard this informative broadcast my friend


 

offline welt on 2019-04-21 22:10 [#02575337]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575334



A wife who is married to a terrorist and knows what he's
doing (and tus knows his codes) can not be innocent. She
would have a duty to counter-act his behavior. So I don't
think this scenario shows that there can be circumstances in
which it would be of value to rape an 'innocent' person.


 

offline mohamed on 2019-04-21 22:12 [#02575338]
Points: 27692 Status: Addict | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575336 | Show recordbag



i didnt hear there was a distinction between rape or
consensual, just the intercourse


 

offline mohamed on 2019-04-21 22:27 [#02575341]
Points: 27692 Status: Addict | Followup to welt: #02575292 | Show recordbag



i dont fear the turn off, but im super paranoid about the
painful experience


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-04-21 22:35 [#02575344]
Points: 11255 Status: Regular



i just want to addendum. it is difficult being me, i would
not recommend it to anyone, but at the same time, i do not
mean this as a complaint. tony danza is worried about how
much of himself he'd retain if he was me, and the answer is
probably not much. schizoid embolism waiting to happen


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 23:32 [#02575345]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02575337



no she was overseas when he was radicalized and he kept it
secret to protect her

in any case this is my thought experiment not yours, it's
like if you responded to rawls's veil of ignorance with
"derp but what if everyone were precognitive and
telepathic". it's disrespectful, as I am at least as great a
thinker as rawls, as we all agree


 

offline belb from mmmmmmhhhhzzzz!!! on 2019-04-21 23:41 [#02575347]
Points: 3777 Status: Regular



is it wrong to rape a terrorist if the terrorist is also a
baby or a cute puppy dog


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 23:42 [#02575348]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to EpicMegatrax: #02575344



well this is the thing, if I were you I'd be you, rendering
the whole thing pointless. but what if we've already done
this, traded places but remained exactly the same as before,
what if we switch back and forth nightly. what if there is
some insubstantial and completely inconsequential token that
is exchanged. you can't prove it doesn't real.


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 23:44 [#02575349]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575345



oh btw no you misread me, and I misread you. I have to rape
HER to make HIM give me the codes.


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 23:46 [#02575350]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular



it occurs to me that this thread is entirely too
patriarchal, we need feminist perspectives on virtuous
antiterror rape


 

offline Tony Danza from Bright Moon on 2019-04-21 23:47 [#02575351]
Points: 1237 Status: Regular



oh god I really have turned into EpicMegatrax, the
prophecies were true


 

online dariusgriffin from cool on 2019-04-22 00:56 [#02575356]
Points: 11314 Status: Lurker



death means there can be no justice in the world, sad but
true


 

online dariusgriffin from cool on 2019-04-22 01:01 [#02575357]
Points: 11314 Status: Lurker



the weird thing is, i don't think fear of death is exactly
rational, it's more of a stupid evolutionary bug, but i
still think people who say they don't fear it are either
lying or deluded

self-consciousness is fucked up

thoughts


 

offline belb from mmmmmmhhhhzzzz!!! on 2019-04-22 01:31 [#02575358]
Points: 3777 Status: Regular



i think it's half a fear of the unknown with all the
afterlife / reincarnation / simulation / whatever gunk we've
thought up over the years. even rational thought kinda
breaks down cos i mean, shit, i've never been dead before.
tack on some morality and guilt at maybe not having been
"good" and death kinda sucks


 

offline belb from mmmmmmhhhhzzzz!!! on 2019-04-22 01:41 [#02575359]
Points: 3777 Status: Regular



(personally i fear simulation the most. i've had
hallucinations that got so complicated they started to get
frame rate drop, like when a live broadcast on tv kinda
breaks up due to bandwidth. unsettling)


 

online dariusgriffin from cool on 2019-04-22 02:14 [#02575360]
Points: 11314 Status: Lurker



heh, my issue is i'm pretty sure i understand what death is
about, and i don't want it. i like my sentience, however
illusory it might be.

anyway, ecclesiastes is the best book in the bible. it's so
good. knowing that it was written more than 2000 years ago
comforts me. humans are doomed but they're interesting.


 

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2019-04-22 04:14 [#02575362]
Points: 11255 Status: Regular | Followup to mohamed: #02575333



14 years old age you get arrested, i heard it on the
radio


absolutely unable to parse your contribution to this thred,
it's out of nowhere, lke a buick falling out of the sky into
leftfield. god bless you


 

online wavephace from Aspiring Moderator on 2019-04-22 04:46 [#02575367]
Points: 2796 Status: Lurker



There are people alive now who will live to be 150, 200,
even 1000 years old. Soon death will be a thing of the past


 

offline welt on 2019-04-22 08:42 [#02575376]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02575349



Ah, yes. We misread each other. Okay, I see the point of
your scenario now.

Then let me modify the challenge/question a bit. Are
there conditions in which it is valuable (in which it is to
be recommended) to terrorize an 'innocent' person by raping
them if the motive of the rapist consists in nothing but
sadistic pleasure and if the consequences of the action (the
rape) consist in nothing but the rapist's sadistic joy and
the victim's pain?
...


 

online dariusgriffin from cool on 2019-04-22 13:14 [#02575385]
Points: 11314 Status: Lurker



rape and torture are always wrong you crazy utilitarians,
get some kant in you


 

offline welt on 2019-04-22 13:30 [#02575386]
Points: 1958 Status: Regular | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02575385



But if you go down the Kantian road you encounter serious
problems, too. ... Almost everybody will agree that Kant's
position on lying - Kant claims that it's always wrong to
lie and thus it's also wrong to lie in order to save an
innocent person from an axe-murderer - shows that there's
something wrong with Kant's reasoning. ... But if - against
Kant - it's valuable to lie in some cases, it's not
clear how one could determine exactly why torture (and even
rape as tortute) might not be valuable in some critical
cases.

There's an interesting parallel between killing and lying in
general. Lying sees to be an attempt to murder the truth.


 


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