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when you play a chord or a note that is out of key do you follow any theory or do you play it because it sounds good/it works to you? is there a theory behind why it works? the one i know is the circle of fifths, modulating to another key will be easier or harsher depending on how close or how far it is to the current key you are in. |
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i do everything by ear, no theory |
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when you play a chord or a note that is out of key do you follow any theory or do you play it because it sounds good/it works to you? yes. |
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witch one yes witch one |
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What do you mean by out of key? Do you mean it isn't diatonic?? |
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thank-you for falling into my nerd joke trap. i was employing inclusive-or, and so i meant yes to both. |
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it is diatonic for example you are in g minor but you play a chord in d minor then either stay in d minor or go back to g minor |
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is the theory you apply anything you can describe? |
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yes. |
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then please do |
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after setting my tracker to 175bpm, i'll start off by opening the folder full of jum roops tussle tossed me called "noicejunglebruv" and scrub around until something grabs my fancy. i'll drop 1, 2, or 4 instances of C-4 in track 1 and let the pattern loop. most of the rum koops aren't precisely 175bpm, and it won't loop seamlessly. i open up the instrument editor and use note up/down to coarsely adjust the sample. next, i fuss with "fine tune" for ages. depending on my mood, sometimes i like the um oops to run over themselves; start of a loop cuts off the prevother times, i like an ever-so-slight pause after the loop; the whole thing being a tad faster than 175bpm. once i'm statisfied with that, i generally repeat the process; find a complimentary loop for track 2, fine tune it until sass. at this point, i may already hearing pitches out of this jungoloop. drums have a tuning to them, and given that these are loops someone else made by chopping up another someone else's funky drumming, we are already quite divorced from 440hz even temporal whatever. once the rhythm sounds good, i more or less explode whatever pitches i'm hearing into something more explicit. then i load up some 303 sounds. i don't bother tuning them. then some rave stabs, which are all flithy out of tune anyways, more portamento, some other drum loops... then start using portamento to scratch all the drum loops. oh no! everything's out of tune! i have to spend ages weaving a tapestry of portamento hex codes so all the other things going on warp in a way that sounds in-tune to my ear so, more or less, it's what sounds good (which is probably the chords and scales we all know, with a heavy preference for phyrgian and more fun scales) but working with live samples has me warping pitches all over the map and i wind up with these strange-tasting chords made from part of a mangled loop, a rave stab, and a bent 303 and they're... melty tears, the sickness, i dunno |
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thanks. do you use a hardware sampler or? |
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oh sorry u use the tracker |
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Do you mean you play a D minor chord or a chord diatonic to the key of D minor? |
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diatonic to the key of d minor |
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What feels good is a good chord, the way I understand it, unless you put the intention into making a “bad chord” for a specific reason, to manipulate a listener into feeling awkward for example; a process which can get a bit obvious/cliché. |
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Well D minor and G minor are only one flat apart, so you won't have strayed too far away from the first key :P |
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yes there is a whole grey area between the good chord and the bad chord though. but it is about how it feels/works in the end i guess. |
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yeah i know :) it will be an unnoticeable change |
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It'd be quite subtle, eg. you can use a C major chord which occurs in both keys (using the raised 6th in G minor) as a nice bridge between them :) |
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thanks marlowe i don’t know any of this by memory but i use the circle of fifths chart and an app that has every chord with every voicing it shows which chords belong to which key i find it very useful it’s called chordpolypad if anyone is interested |
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Nice - I'm a piano teacher so if you've any questions please feel free to ask :] |
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thank you very much marlowe! it's great that we have a piano teacher in xltronic i think. |
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tension and release: music is all about tension and release. you want some sour chords so the good ones feel nicer. sometimes it's fun to spoil the good ones with something off-kilter so you can have an even better one later. general motion: i enjoy making it feel like the whole track is melting or something. you let the notes start at their normal pitch and bend the sustain/release down very carefully. how you've warped the previous notes determines how you need to warp the next notes to keep the feel going. sort of like . or perhaps more like stacking logs. if you aren't careful about how you build it up in the middle you can wind up having the edge of the pile collapse on ya. how you distribute the weight of the logs amongst the logs clearly involves calculus and so a full explain will have to wait |
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i want to make it all tension and be an asshole |
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Thinking about pitches with letters has always really confused me, i think it's easier to understand with numbers... I've also never really understood how any eg. major scale is meant to be intrinsically any different to any other major scale, as it's all the same intervals... unless you have perfect pitch, or believe in stuff like solfeggio frequencies. |
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(or use Just intonation) |
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just had a bit of an epiphany about the letters thing.. Of course it doesn't matter where you are putting A440, it's the relationship between the different scales that defines them. (And the letters are as handy as numbers,moot point) |
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yes, there's an echo of aphex's comments in this thread. "i change the 440hz setting on everything! i start by making up scales!" then you have someone like me sitting on the outside of that. i'd say, "i like the feeling of this track, the taste of the harmonics, let's try and do that in cubase." then i would go off to cubase and duplicate the same feel. my approach, however, was to start off with normal tuned things and carefully mess them up until they sounded aphex-y. is it the same result with a different approach? or is the structure fundamentally different, because he's doing the detuning much earlier in the pipeline? meanwhile, over on hardware -- i changed the 440hz setting, once, because i like digging through synth menus in search of the weird shit. it didn't really do anything i noticed -- i think i'd just built a paia fatman kit at the time and v/osc scale on that has never been right, everything was out of tune already |
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i want to make it all tension and be an asshole |
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but then there are much more effective ways to be an |
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Thinking about pitches with letters has always really confused me, i think it's easier to understand with numbers. how about just thinking of them as samples? unless you're working with pure sine waves, there's a lot of harmonic content in the sound that's not really covered by the ol' notestaff |
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midikeys, with some base added as a root TTSTTTS for maj scal = 0,2,4,5,7,9,11 Then you can work out which major or minor triads work on each note of the scale by checking if [0,3,7] or [0,4,7] are in the set for it... |
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heh i thought you were asking me a Q then, never mind. Got a good point there though. That's what is so frustrating about dreaming music, you'll never ever get it like you dreamt it - timbrally/processing wise. |
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(Though maybe if you spend months and months with a particular set up and it starts to invade your dreams; then you'll dream the song as actions on your setup) |
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steve did you ever try microtuning or colundi scale? |
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i have an extremely good short-term memory for sounds, but getting things to make the leap to long-term memory can be much more difficult. i've lost count of the number of times i've thought up something cool in my head, then when i sit down to do it, my brain gets subsumed by the notes in front of me and i actually forget what i was trying to do in the first place. like, if i don't get the right notes pretty quickly, the wrong ones will fill up my short-term memory and i'll have lost the bit i originally sat down to transcribe. this sucks. this issue works to my advantage, though, when i sit there detuning loads of individual notes, getting them to sound just right. a half second of music becomes my whole universe; the rest of the song is not really in my brain. without that, i don't think i could coherently make melty-sounding trax |
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something something neuroplastic; something something tiered hierarchical caching |
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so -- i'm doing my thing [] and i've slid into a hip-hop groove and so i'm picking out horns instead of rave stabs; ok. i load up "horn_swipe.wav" and it's perfect, but... no, "these horns need to be more sour," i think to myself, and immediately go to slide "fine tune" down. you might think what i meant was, "this is too sharp" or "this should be more flat," but it's more specific. it was actually fairly in tune with everything already, i just wanted it to be out of tune in a certain way that i would describe as "sour." |
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now that the horns are sufficiently sour, i would also describe them as significantly more "dank." now i am going to make them moreso with portamento |
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now i'm bored of it and i think i'll just start another. |
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I just do whatever sounds ok to me. Got away with it so far and never got questioned about it at uni. |
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at uni? |
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I'm finishing up a PhD in music by composition and have zero music theory knowledge. |
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wow. i'm very interested. if you have no music theory knowledge how do you study/research music composition? |
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Well my undergraduate was in creative music technology so it was around 50% composition and 50% production based. When I was like 24 I got bored of working shitty jobs that I kept changing every few months and so I decided to see if I could get in to uni. I sent them a CD and it was strong enough for me to be accepted without qualifications and due to my being older. It was very daunting at first but the university are very open to non-traditional composition/scoring etc. so I would always lean towards citing things like oramics or plunderphonics or musique concrète and my compositions would reflect that. Having a lot of my stuff already being sample based helped. If I was required to possess some traditional theory knowledge I'd book a meeting with the lecturer, ask him 'what the fuck am I supposed to know?', read what they suggested, use it and promptly forget it. That's me being useless though. Somehow I graduated top of my class and they asked me to do a masters. I expressed concern that I wasn't skilled enough but they pushed me again towards non-traditional composition so I started working on a suite of non-linear interactive compositions in Max/MSP. No traditional scoring or analysis required, with contextualisation amongst other experimental works being more important. Once I'd finished the work the uni felt it was worth expanding to a PhD so here I am. It's 90 mins of composition with 20,000 words which is surprisingly little when you have to talk about 18 installations, how they work, what the rules and framework are etc. Basically zero room for the discussion of chords, tempo etc, particularly when those are dictated by the listener. |
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wow that is very cool indeksical. i know you release music, i have a guess but just to make sure what was your alias again? |
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I'm finishing up a PhD in music by composition and have zero music theory knowledge. dont know if i should lol or prostrate |
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good luck with the master sam |
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