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zilty braindump

offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2014-10-15 12:44 [#02477677]
Points: 23163 Status: Addict

my own reaction to jivver's passing surprised me as much as
the suddenness of it. i'm usually not too analytical about
zilty, but i've been stewing on it solidly throughout the
last two days. writing it up into a post like this helps me
firm up the thinking, and makes it easier for me to keep my
piehole shut about the whole tangle in less appropriate
places (i.e. the RIP mark bell thread).

in a nutshell, i'm here because i'm an introvert. as much as
i enjoy being around people, it's also very exhausting for
me. some days, i'm out of juice, and don't go out. or, maybe
i'd like to go out, but i have to do laundry, wait for the
plumber.... swiss cheese days, you could call them. little
pockets of time all over that aren't big enough for much.
i've tried juggling things to reduce that, but i'm terrible
at multitasking, and i can only push it so far before i
begin to botch deadlines.

then there's also indulging my impulsivity. i have trouble
sitting still; i'm a spaz. i'll be bothered by the most
colossally trivial things, like, the way my sock sits on my
foot. then i'm forced to calculate: value of (relief of sock
recalibration) vs. (not taking off my shoe at a business
meeting). when i go to weddings, the ceremony is murder
(confined to a metal chair while wearing uncomfortable
clothes) but the reception is a blast (finally being able to
move about, have a beer, and see people i haven't seen in
ages). that's as good an analogy as any for how reality vs.
internet feels when i'm socially exhausted. reality stops
being fun, and begins to make me spazzy and restless to the
point of frenzy. nannying yourself constantly is exhausting.
when i get home, i have a beer, and then coat this place in
posts like verbal spray foam. i don't do it to annoy people,
and i don't do it 'cos i'm crazy. i do it 'cos it keeps me
from going crazy. it's also slightly more constructive than
xbox, and probably more healthy than alcoholism. probably.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2014-10-15 12:44 [#02477678]
Points: 23163 Status: Addict

a message board can become a comfy little microcosm where
things are familiar enough to be relaxing, but fluid enough
to remain interesting. sometimes boards close, or the tone
changes, and you leave... but, when you stay for years, it
can become more than a salve for attention deficit disorder.
funny things start to happen: you peg who owns a dupe
through recognizing the writing. synchronicities, especially
on more acidic boards, similar to how you might get contact
high at a rave where it's flowing freely. and people start
to care.

i'd never really thought about this, as i'm usually too busy
berating myself: the internet is not a social life, close
the web browser, go outside. it's true of most internet
stuff, but zilty deserves a lot more credit than i've given
it. i've had quite a rough time over the last few years, but
so have a few others here. in between all the trolling,
there have been some genuinely tender moments. more often
than not, when people show real pain and vulnerability, the
trolling stops, there's an awkward silence, and then...
"yeah man, me too." which is startling, given how this place
can be some days.

some day back in 2012, i was in a depressed funk. it was
either a slow day or a troll warzone (i don't remember!).
then, i saw jivver sign on, and it immediately cheered me
up. like, before he'd even posted anything. i don't even
remember what he posted, but i'm sure it was good. compare
it to drinking at a bar, alone, because you're in a foul
mood, then having someone you haven't seen in ages walk in;
turn the whole day around for the better. i didn't really
think about it at the time... today, though, when i
remembered that, it dawned on me that you only have that
sort of reaction when you feel genuine affection for


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2014-10-15 12:45 [#02477679]
Points: 23163 Status: Addict

i really don't know how it happened, to be frank. i actively
avoid prying into people's personal lives, simply because
remembering who has kids and birthdays is the sort of thing
i come here to hide from. people are avatars; the mess of
life is tucked away somewhere. if someone is boring, you can
close the thread instead of having to listen politely. you
don't have to schedule anything, worry about finding a
parking space, or whether you'll be in a state to drive home
afterwards. however, that sort of casual doting on others is
what builds relationships. everyone else has to find a
parking spot too, and that you've all sacrificed time and
stress to be there also gives it strength. when the traffic
is dealt with, the car is parked, and you walk in the door,
the pressure is off, and you feel relief -- and it's hitting
everyone else at the same moment. it feeds off itself.
again, similar to a contact high.

on the internet, there's very little in terms of context...
or consequences, especially on a board where getting banned
is harder than getting into a supermodel's pants. lots of
mess, lots of chaos, lots of things said that wouldn't be
said in reality. then on top of that, trolling is sort of A
Thing here. yet, when i heard about jivver, i didn't think;
i just started crying. once i calmed down, it was like...
dafaq? is there something wrong with me? i'm an emotional
person, no doubt. i have been known to cry over nonsense,
especially if i'm stressed out or stoned... but i was
wasn't, not then. sober and in a good mood to boot. and this
was just the internet, man. i had to sit on it a while just
to be sure it wasn't another neurotransmitter glitch. after
all some time off from it, i concluded: yes, i really do
care. if i think about it, it makes me sad again, and if i
keep thinking about it, i start crying again.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2014-10-15 12:46 [#02477680]
Points: 23163 Status: Addict

next, i felt awkward: people were speaking about knowing
jivver for years -- and not on the net, but in real life.
what right did i have to chime in compared to that? after
stewing on that, i realized it's not about grief or
no grief, it's about how much grief. if this is how i feel,
i can only imagine how the people who actually met him feel,
let those who spent years with him. in fact, reading their
reactions really crystallized it for me: it's a much sadder
contact high this round; lots of real grief. it's a sad
moment, but i find that communal emotion beautiful all the

honestly, i can't stand pandering, and i get the impression
jivver was the same. i was actually annoyed -- and maybe a
bit jealous -- when his identity surfaced. it meant he was
now going to beset by alternating waves of trolls and
cloying, swooning fanboys.... and, darn it, i thought he was
cool when he was just jivver; fuck off. and i hadn't heard
of LFO. i've been calling him jivver throughout this,
because that's who he was, to me. i remember having a notion
in 2012 that he was... someone, and when it was all "Mark
Bell LFO" i said to myself, "oh, that explains it." my
notions are just that, though -- i'm not clairvoyant, and
many of my notions dead wrong. i'm not in a rush about
finding out either way: i don't pry; i leave zilty in its
bubble. i nurse dozens of sloppy theories with casual
delight, simply because i enjoy seeing how they turn out.
sort of like gardening, i suppose. however, now i really
regret not bothering to chat him up outside of the bubble. i
think i'll be doing things differently in the future.
haven't really decided how, yet. maybe i'll install soulseek

part of me wonders if this is all another troll -- maybe
jivver is actually someone else, and still alive. i would be
plenty mad if that wound up being true, but i'd get over it
soon enough, as that would mean the mind i felt through the
words was still there. that's really what i'm mourning the
loss of.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2014-10-15 12:47 [#02477681]
Points: 23163 Status: Addict

and finally... i'm wondering when one of his mates is going
to score the password to the account off his computer and
cause a major dust-up. you jerks :)


offline AMPI MAX from United Kingdom on 2014-10-15 12:51 [#02477684]
Points: 10789 Status: Regular

epicmegatracks is a brony bumboy


offline Junktion from Northern Jutland (Denmark) on 2014-10-15 12:54 [#02477685]
Points: 9713 Status: Lurker

thanks for sharing - good read actually


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 13:00 [#02477686]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

I think the Web, as a social thing, is becoming toxic. Zilty
came into being before that, and the ties that remain here
are still anchored in a era of relative innocence. Zilty's
very fragile now, and we all know it can't last. If it
changed it in all likelihood would die rather than be
rejuvenated. A big presence from the site (apart from
everything else) has logged out permanently, and we're left
contemplating an emptiness, a void, where once there was
life, vicious humour, generosity and lots of good things. I
think the future, in a broader sense, is going to be very
lonely. I think this is just another stark advance warning.
What we can do about it, now we're all tainted, I honestly
don't know.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2014-10-15 13:08 [#02477687]
Points: 23163 Status: Addict

deep roots help, but more important is having a group of
people with good souls, who are good communicators. which is
also what makes a good artist, i suppose...

sad as this is, it's also unifying. it also prompts some
soul-searching as i've been doing -- now the place matters
to me more, not less.

p.s. the web is still pretty good if you avoid facebook; try


offline Junktion from Northern Jutland (Denmark) on 2014-10-15 13:13 [#02477688]
Points: 9713 Status: Lurker | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477686

The board is stuck between being outdated, and having so
many users that just wouldn't be interested in an updated
xlt - technically speaking you'd have to make the same exact
board, with the same database, and put it into a new
framework that allowed for future implementations and
security, for xlt to have any future.
That being said, nobody here would be interested in funding
it - and the last try into getting funding for an update
(dubturbo) didn't really go well.

It will always go down in my own history as the place i
could go to and get inspiration for music, and before the
facebook-boom, it was also a source of some of the wicked
things online. 12 years I've been here - some years more
active than others, and the less active ones was mostly due
to either spending a lot of time on other things, or that
the board was infested with trolls.

In some way - and I say this with all respect - the death of
Mark Bell has revived something in here. Dare I call it


offline AMPI MAX from United Kingdom on 2014-10-15 13:14 [#02477689]
Points: 10789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477686

ur spot on about all that.
ykno ive been trying to say tho that it was going to take u
big grown up boys to come up with something and i realy
think u should consider what its going to be like if u dont.
where u going to go man? u really want to just talk like u
could take it or leave it? like its fate or something?
anyway places like this wont just pop up again. i hope it
sticks around somehow


offline AMPI MAX from United Kingdom on 2014-10-15 13:21 [#02477690]
Points: 10789 Status: Regular

ppl you will never have a place like this ever again. decide
how that makes u all feel


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 13:26 [#02477692]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular | Followup to AMPI MAX: #02477689

I'd rather it didn't go, but I don't know what one could do
to change it, or indeed if one should. As Junktion says,
you'd have to replicate it - which to be honest is feasible.
It should have, however, happened about somewhere between
the last 10 to 5 years. Now it's going to be traumatic. The
owner of the board can't even be bothered to roll up to
acknowledge a landmark in this site's history. You could all
be shipped off somewhere else, but even then "the cause" is
frail and weakened. Looking at this site one could be
forgiven that this music's still vital. And that's quite
comforting. I tend to live in the past, that's why I still
come here. But not only is it not coming back, it's actively
dying off. I think we're all at risk of becoming IDM Mrs


offline Junktion from Northern Jutland (Denmark) on 2014-10-15 13:36 [#02477693]
Points: 9713 Status: Lurker | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477692

I have actually been working on a C#/.NET version of the
board as a side-project while studying some years back. I
did manage to get something like 50% done. The main board
was actually running - Added functions to have multiple
board-categories, and was working on an AJAX-implementation
so you didn't have to refresh to update.


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 14:01 [#02477696]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

AJAX I think would be the way forward, so you could keep the
look of the site but just have a more immediate,
conversational interaction with it. Responsive / Mobile
friendly design would be good too.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 14:12 [#02477698]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477692

Funny how IDM fan and owner of the site TotalZero hasn't
shown up, no? Considering what has happened.

I doubt it's still his. Though it's wild speculation.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 14:12 [#02477699]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular

Epic, for an introvert you talk an awful you about yourself!


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 14:13 [#02477700]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477696

Paul says hi and mentioned missing "the days of XS3". We
were all "lovely" apparently.


offline Monoid from one source all things depend on 2014-10-15 14:17 [#02477702]
Points: 10958 Status: Lurker | Followup to Junktion: #02477693

Maybe the board will DIE from the complications of this


offline drill rods from 6AM-8PM NO PARKING (Canada) on 2014-10-15 14:29 [#02477706]
Points: 1166 Status: Lurker

aww so heartfelt!

I want to like this forum, I didn't really come here out of
introversion but I barely know anyone IRL who is into this
kind of music. So I came here hoping I would get to know
people in this scene. It didn't quite work out, since this
forum tends to be either dead, or rammed with people calling
you a cunt/twat for trying to make conversation (generally
not jivver in my experience). It's a bit too much of
an old-boys-club I guess. Oh well.

There are certainly some good eggs here too, and I
appreciate you lot, and I did pick up a lot of music I
wouldn't have otherwise known about


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 14:33 [#02477707]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to drill rods: #02477706

Please do stay!

Time the nice people voiced themselves a bit more!


offline Foht-Garlanger from dong on 2014-10-15 15:20 [#02477723]
Points: 190 Status: Regular

I'm glad I joined this board, even if I never post and I'll
never have an avatar..

Epic's post is great, just makes me remember why I care
about music so much.


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 15:23 [#02477724]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular | Followup to RussellDust: #02477700

We'll always have some home, us digital nomads (more like
e-gypos, really) - the two rules though will be to keep
religion and politics out, and for me never to be in charge
of the kill switch.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 16:00 [#02477726]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477724

That's a lol!

I do like you being in charge of the switch though.
It adds a certain piment.


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 16:11 [#02477727]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

I know, but I think in future it'd have to be you as well,
each of us having half of the launch code. Or maybe someone
sensible like Paul, and neither of use irresponsible,
impulsive arsonists who specialise in bridges.


offline AMPI MAX from United Kingdom on 2014-10-15 16:12 [#02477728]
Points: 10789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477724

i think this place has depression. and i think that this
depression comes from a kind of emotional impass where
something is stuck in the throat. it will follow you
wherever you go. the artists of 21st century act as if there
is nothing new to say and so does xltronic. depression.

but talking about religion and politics is the new thing.
its the unfashionable uncool little bit scary might be
racist elephant in the room that no one wants to discuss.
all your favourite artists writers and singers would tell u
that awkward elephants make real art.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 16:24 [#02477731]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477727

Maybe two keys we have to turn at the same time, supervised
by Paul.

I see what you mean, AMPI, but it's people that have
depression. This site may have people who suffer from
depression, possibly a lot, but the MB itself isn't
depressed. I think a lot of people stopped participating
here because they felt they would get hostile responses. It
got a bit sad and people fled to WATMM for a more peaceful
and controlled environment.


offline Monoid from one source all things depend on 2014-10-15 16:31 [#02477733]
Points: 10958 Status: Lurker | Followup to RussellDust: #02477731

What are you implying? That this board needs a stricter
moderation? I don't think that is a good idea.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 16:34 [#02477734]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02477733

Most definitely not! I just wish people were less worried
about posting here.


offline rarndaraki from from from from (United States) on 2014-10-15 16:40 [#02477736]
Points: 1833 Status: Regular

I never made a definitive decision to leave the board, it
just naturally happened about 8 years ago or so.
Subconsciously, I think it was related to the points that
AMPI and Russell raise here - waning interesting in a type
of music that felt like it was going nowhere, the message
board itself feeling outdated, the increasing amount of
hostility and trolling taking place, etc.

Additionally I don't listen to IDM anymore. The only
electronic music I really get into is ambient music. The
whole synthetic glitchy beat thing has sounded stale to me
for quite awhile.

But when Mark Bell died I came back here and did find myself
listening to some electronica/IDM again, for nostalgic
purposes mostly. So yeah... for me this board is sort of a
nostalgia haven, and for that reason I hope it never


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 17:01 [#02477737]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

It's decided then, this site should remain "as is",
preserved in aspic. Now more poignant than ever, as a place
where we knew Jivver (not Bell the flesh and blood family
man and good friend to many, not LFO the musical legacy,
though of course bits of those). Let it stand, a place we
can return to as things go ever rapidly south.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 17:04 [#02477738]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477737

Amen (break)


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 17:21 [#02477740]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

I don't think it's beyond reason to suggest the board has
depression. I have depression, and I know others here do. If
you think of the amount of "stuff" we've all, over the
years, pumped into XLT... there's a saying in spanish, "Los
años pesan", the years weigh heavy. The owner himself seems
to be afflicted be some increasing torpor. It'd make a good
book. Well, a book.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 17:52 [#02477746]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular

Saying the "community" is depressed sounds more relevant
than XLT "itself" being depressed.

But yeah, probably Zilty has a mind of it's own and isn't
impressed with me not taking it's sickness and pain


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 18:28 [#02477753]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

XLT is the community. XLT on its own is... what, a
table based HTML layout. Its sickness and pain is our
sickness and pain. Does it need treatment, or being taken
out behind the shed and shot? Or should it be allowed to
work out its own solution, its own salvation? I think
we know the answer.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 19:05 [#02477757]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477753

I see what you mean. But at best (at best) I can imagine xlt
as a physical place. A place that began as a night club,
became a lounge and is now probably a basement. A basement
full of depressed people.

Though to be fair you and


offline rarndaraki from from from from (United States) on 2014-10-15 19:05 [#02477758]
Points: 1833 Status: Regular

YouTube and other media streaming services really changed
the dynamics of life.

Remember getting really excited for Gantz Graff, and then
take a bunch of drugs and watching / listening to it over
and over again and posting on the board? The board had a
purpose back then.

That was all pre-YouTube. In those days you gathered around
a message board to rave about one song or one music video.
Now, we're surrounded by media 24/7, what's the point?
Everyone is just clicking through shit, letting it sit in
the background, and then moving onto the next thing.

But, don't be fooled into thinking it was better (or should
I say healthier?). We were just as addicted to
entertainment back then as we are now, it's just an easier
fix these days.

"When the industry of entertainment takes over, as it is
gradually doing now, when the young people, the students,
the children, are constantly instigated to pleasure, to
fancy, to romantic sensuality, the words restraint and
austerity are pushed away, never even given a thought. The
austerity of the monks, the sannyasis, who deny the world,
who clothe their bodies with some kind of uniform or just a
cloth—this denial of the material world is surely not
austerity. You probably won’t even listen to this, to what
the implications of austerity are. When you have been
brought up from childhood to amuse yourself and escape from
yourself through entertainment, religious or otherwise, and
when most of the psychologists say that you must express
everything you feel and that any form of holding back or
restraint is detrimental, leading to various forms of
neuroticism, you naturally enter more and more into the
world of sport, amusement, entertainment, all helping you to
escape from yourself, from what you are. The understanding
of the nature of what you are, without any distortions,
without any bias, without any reactions to what you discover
you are, is the beginning of austerity." -Krishnamurti


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 19:09 [#02477760]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular

I'm sure you'll agree the board still has a purpose. Maybe
not so much about finding out what's coming out.

I'd have love to taste that '60s and '70s vibe when it comes
to listening to music. You've bought this LP and all your
mates are coming round to listen to it religiously, while
passing the cover around.

I'm sure it still happens in certain circles, but it seems
today the kids are happy to have a computer chock-a-block
full of tracks they don't listen to. It's like status. Like
Facebook friends.


offline mohamed from the turtle business on 2014-10-15 19:22 [#02477761]
Points: 31127 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477740 | Show recordbag

years weight if you're looking for a job


offline mohamed from the turtle business on 2014-10-15 19:28 [#02477765]
Points: 31127 Status: Regular | Show recordbag

i read all the thread except EpicMegatracx's posts


offline Monoid from one source all things depend on 2014-10-15 19:43 [#02477769]
Points: 10958 Status: Lurker

Electronic music is still at the forefront of inovation. I
find it a bit odd, if people here are not interested in a
more updated layout of the board.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 19:51 [#02477772]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02477769

I'm more interested in your posts, year after year, even if
often puzzling, than a new layout.

Do you feel/think you've changed since you first began
coming here? Because, and I don't mean to be rude, you don't
seem to change one bit.

At first I thought you were just a nervous late teen. But
you must be in your thirties now.


offline Monoid from one source all things depend on 2014-10-15 19:54 [#02477776]
Points: 10958 Status: Lurker | Followup to RussellDust: #02477772

No, i didn't change that much. Tho i found the trolls in the
Mark Bell thread a bit tasteless. Maybe i am getting old.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 19:57 [#02477778]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02477776

You know, some of those "men" didn't really know how to
respond to his wit, so they wait until he can't respond.

I take comfort in knowing he would laugh it off.


offline SignedUpToLOL from Zuckuss fanfiction (United Kingdom) on 2014-10-15 20:00 [#02477779]
Points: 2853 Status: Regular

Mind you, 4chan looks the same as it ever did, and I don't
think they have this existential angst all the time.
Maybe zilty's too European, Nordic even. Think
Ingmar Bergman.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 20:02 [#02477780]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular | Followup to SignedUpToLOL: #02477779

Bergman? Fucking hell. Zilty is a genius, a depressed

Persona comes to mind.


offline RussellDust on 2014-10-15 20:03 [#02477781]
Points: 15789 Status: Regular

Or are we playing chess here?


offline wavephace from off the chain on 2014-10-15 20:05 [#02477783]
Points: 3098 Status: Lurker

in the olden days ppl got mad if u posted a streaming link
instead of mp3 download

now they get mad if u post a download and not soundcloud or
you tube


offline jnasato from 777gogogo (Japan) on 2014-10-16 01:28 [#02477801]
Points: 3393 Status: Regular | Show recordbag

Aaah, internet forums..... I've been a longtime member of a
few noteworthy music/art boards, and I've realized- as with
all life- change is inevitable. No amount of future tech
could be greater than the energy of a collective people to
make a community what it is. For whatever reason, certain
characters accumulate in separate boards; even for the same
subject matter. And thus- with the helping hand of site
aesthetics- board character is born. But these people are
from a time and are changing through time. Forums over a
few years old have people who start to grow and change
together, further crystallizing the board character. An
individual's influence spreads like wildfire through all
individuals involved in a forum, and this further
morphing+constant crystallization is what makes a forum into
a living entity. It feeds off people's hearts to stay alive
and rewards them for keeping it alive. But by an entity
being born, its death is inevitable in one way or another.
This is a sad, but inescapable truth. To wish a forum to
stay at its golden peak, is a wish for all people involved
to never change.

People like to think of internet as "virtual" but there is
nothing virtual about much of it. We are all ACTUALLY
sharing. This shit is real as fuck. THIS IS REAL LIFE.
Mark Bell passing also made me realize just how fragile yet
significant all this shit can be. A music great died, but
it hit me hard that a community member had died. Mark Bell
WAS JivverDicker, no matter how different he was elsewhere.
Being a member of a great community is a PRIVILEGE, and if
one wishes to spend their last years in troll mode, so be
it. But this is real life. This is not a game to win.
This is an opportunity to experience something wonderful--
do with your time here what you will.

I appreciate everyone on xlt for making it what it's been
over the years. THANK YOU ALL. It's not gonna last
forever, but it doesn't have to. If you've never
appreciated this place, then it never existed for you,


offline jnasato from 777gogogo (Japan) on 2014-10-16 01:36 [#02477802]
Points: 3393 Status: Regular | Followup to wavephace: #02477783 | Show recordbag

RealAudio FTW.


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