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 Now online (1)forck_02lynix ...and 49 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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my own reaction to jivver's passing surprised me as much as the suddenness of it. i'm usually not too analytical about zilty, but i've been stewing on it solidly throughout the last two days. writing it up into a post like this helps me firm up the thinking, and makes it easier for me to keep my piehole shut about the whole tangle in less appropriate places (i.e. the RIP mark bell thread). in a nutshell, i'm here because i'm an introvert. as much as i enjoy being around people, it's also very exhausting for me. some days, i'm out of juice, and don't go out. or, maybe i'd like to go out, but i have to do laundry, wait for the plumber.... swiss cheese days, you could call them. little pockets of time all over that aren't big enough for much. i've tried juggling things to reduce that, but i'm terrible at multitasking, and i can only push it so far before i begin to botch deadlines. then there's also indulging my impulsivity. i have trouble sitting still; i'm a spaz. i'll be bothered by the most colossally trivial things, like, the way my sock sits on my foot. then i'm forced to calculate: value of (relief of sock recalibration) vs. (not taking off my shoe at a business meeting). when i go to weddings, the ceremony is murder (confined to a metal chair while wearing uncomfortable clothes) but the reception is a blast (finally being able to move about, have a beer, and see people i haven't seen in ages). that's as good an analogy as any for how reality vs. internet feels when i'm socially exhausted. reality stops being fun, and begins to make me spazzy and restless to the point of frenzy. nannying yourself constantly is exhausting. when i get home, i have a beer, and then coat this place in posts like verbal spray foam. i don't do it to annoy people, and i don't do it 'cos i'm crazy. i do it 'cos it keeps me from going crazy. it's also slightly more constructive than xbox, and probably more healthy than alcoholism. probably. |
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a message board can become a comfy little microcosm where things are familiar enough to be relaxing, but fluid enough to remain interesting. sometimes boards close, or the tone changes, and you leave... but, when you stay for years, it can become more than a salve for attention deficit disorder. funny things start to happen: you peg who owns a dupe through recognizing the writing. synchronicities, especially on more acidic boards, similar to how you might get contact high at a rave where it's flowing freely. and people start to care. i'd never really thought about this, as i'm usually too busy berating myself: the internet is not a social life, close the web browser, go outside. it's true of most internet stuff, but zilty deserves a lot more credit than i've given it. i've had quite a rough time over the last few years, but so have a few others here. in between all the trolling, there have been some genuinely tender moments. more often than not, when people show real pain and vulnerability, the trolling stops, there's an awkward silence, and then... "yeah man, me too." which is startling, given how this place can be some days. some day back in 2012, i was in a depressed funk. it was either a slow day or a troll warzone (i don't remember!). then, i saw jivver sign on, and it immediately cheered me up. like, before he'd even posted anything. i don't even remember what he posted, but i'm sure it was good. compare it to drinking at a bar, alone, because you're in a foul mood, then having someone you haven't seen in ages walk in; turn the whole day around for the better. i didn't really think about it at the time... today, though, when i remembered that, it dawned on me that you only have that sort of reaction when you feel genuine affection for someone. |
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i really don't know how it happened, to be frank. i actively avoid prying into people's personal lives, simply because remembering who has kids and birthdays is the sort of thing i come here to hide from. people are avatars; the mess of life is tucked away somewhere. if someone is boring, you can close the thread instead of having to listen politely. you don't have to schedule anything, worry about finding a parking space, or whether you'll be in a state to drive home afterwards. however, that sort of casual doting on others is what builds relationships. everyone else has to find a parking spot too, and that you've all sacrificed time and stress to be there also gives it strength. when the traffic is dealt with, the car is parked, and you walk in the door, the pressure is off, and you feel relief -- and it's hitting everyone else at the same moment. it feeds off itself. again, similar to a contact high. on the internet, there's very little in terms of context... or consequences, especially on a board where getting banned is harder than getting into a supermodel's pants. lots of mess, lots of chaos, lots of things said that wouldn't be said in reality. then on top of that, trolling is sort of A Thing here. yet, when i heard about jivver, i didn't think; i just started crying. once i calmed down, it was like... dafaq? is there something wrong with me? i'm an emotional person, no doubt. i have been known to cry over nonsense, especially if i'm stressed out or stoned... but i was wasn't, not then. sober and in a good mood to boot. and this was just the internet, man. i had to sit on it a while just to be sure it wasn't another neurotransmitter glitch. after all some time off from it, i concluded: yes, i really do care. if i think about it, it makes me sad again, and if i keep thinking about it, i start crying again. |
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next, i felt awkward: people were speaking about knowing jivver for years -- and not on the net, but in real life. what right did i have to chime in compared to that? after stewing on that, i realized it's not about grief or no grief, it's about how much grief. if this is how i feel, i can only imagine how the people who actually met him feel, let those who spent years with him. in fact, reading their reactions really crystallized it for me: it's a much sadder contact high this round; lots of real grief. it's a sad moment, but i find that communal emotion beautiful all the same. honestly, i can't stand pandering, and i get the impression jivver was the same. i was actually annoyed -- and maybe a bit jealous -- when his identity surfaced. it meant he was now going to beset by alternating waves of trolls and cloying, swooning fanboys.... and, darn it, i thought he was cool when he was just jivver; fuck off. and i hadn't heard of LFO. i've been calling him jivver throughout this, because that's who he was, to me. i remember having a notion in 2012 that he was... someone, and when it was all "Mark Bell LFO" i said to myself, "oh, that explains it." my notions are just that, though -- i'm not clairvoyant, and many of my notions dead wrong. i'm not in a rush about finding out either way: i don't pry; i leave zilty in its bubble. i nurse dozens of sloppy theories with casual delight, simply because i enjoy seeing how they turn out. sort of like gardening, i suppose. however, now i really regret not bothering to chat him up outside of the bubble. i think i'll be doing things differently in the future. haven't really decided how, yet. maybe i'll install soulseek again. part of me wonders if this is all another troll -- maybe jivver is actually someone else, and still alive. i would be plenty mad if that wound up being true, but i'd get over it soon enough, as that would mean the mind i felt through the words was still there. that's really what i'm mourning the loss of. |
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and finally... i'm wondering when one of his mates is going to score the password to the account off his computer and cause a major dust-up. you jerks :) |
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epicmegatracks is a brony bumboy |
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thanks for sharing - good read actually |
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I think the Web, as a social thing, is becoming toxic. Zilty came into being before that, and the ties that remain here are still anchored in a era of relative innocence. Zilty's very fragile now, and we all know it can't last. If it changed it in all likelihood would die rather than be rejuvenated. A big presence from the site (apart from everything else) has logged out permanently, and we're left contemplating an emptiness, a void, where once there was life, vicious humour, generosity and lots of good things. I think the future, in a broader sense, is going to be very lonely. I think this is just another stark advance warning. What we can do about it, now we're all tainted, I honestly don't know. |
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deep roots help, but more important is having a group of people with good souls, who are good communicators. which is also what makes a good artist, i suppose... sad as this is, it's also unifying. it also prompts some soul-searching as i've been doing -- now the place matters to me more, not less. p.s. the web is still pretty good if you avoid facebook; try it. |
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The board is stuck between being outdated, and having so many users that just wouldn't be interested in an updated xlt - technically speaking you'd have to make the same exact board, with the same database, and put it into a new framework that allowed for future implementations and security, for xlt to have any future. That being said, nobody here would be interested in funding it - and the last try into getting funding for an update (dubturbo) didn't really go well. It will always go down in my own history as the place i could go to and get inspiration for music, and before the facebook-boom, it was also a source of some of the wicked things online. 12 years I've been here - some years more active than others, and the less active ones was mostly due to either spending a lot of time on other things, or that the board was infested with trolls. In some way - and I say this with all respect - the death of Mark Bell has revived something in here. Dare I call it realization? |
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ur spot on about all that. ykno ive been trying to say tho that it was going to take u big grown up boys to come up with something and i realy think u should consider what its going to be like if u dont. where u going to go man? u really want to just talk like u could take it or leave it? like its fate or something? anyway places like this wont just pop up again. i hope it sticks around somehow |
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ppl you will never have a place like this ever again. decide how that makes u all feel |
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I'd rather it didn't go, but I don't know what one could do to change it, or indeed if one should. As Junktion says, you'd have to replicate it - which to be honest is feasible. It should have, however, happened about somewhere between the last 10 to 5 years. Now it's going to be traumatic. The owner of the board can't even be bothered to roll up to acknowledge a landmark in this site's history. You could all be shipped off somewhere else, but even then "the cause" is frail and weakened. Looking at this site one could be forgiven that this music's still vital. And that's quite comforting. I tend to live in the past, that's why I still come here. But not only is it not coming back, it's actively dying off. I think we're all at risk of becoming IDM Mrs Havershams. |
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I have actually been working on a C#/.NET version of the board as a side-project while studying some years back. I did manage to get something like 50% done. The main board was actually running - Added functions to have multiple board-categories, and was working on an AJAX-implementation so you didn't have to refresh to update. |
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AJAX I think would be the way forward, so you could keep the look of the site but just have a more immediate, conversational interaction with it. Responsive / Mobile friendly design would be good too. |
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Funny how IDM fan and owner of the site TotalZero hasn't shown up, no? Considering what has happened. I doubt it's still his. Though it's wild speculation. |
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Epic, for an introvert you talk an awful you about yourself! ;) |
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Paul says hi and mentioned missing "the days of XS3". We were all "lovely" apparently. |
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Maybe the board will DIE from the complications of this operation.. |
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aww so heartfelt! I want to like this forum, I didn't really come here out of introversion but I barely know anyone IRL who is into this kind of music. So I came here hoping I would get to know people in this scene. It didn't quite work out, since this forum tends to be either dead, or rammed with people calling you a cunt/twat for trying to make conversation (generally not jivver in my experience). It's a bit too much of an old-boys-club I guess. Oh well. There are certainly some good eggs here too, and I appreciate you lot, and I did pick up a lot of music I wouldn't have otherwise known about |
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Please do stay! Time the nice people voiced themselves a bit more! |
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I'm glad I joined this board, even if I never post and I'll never have an avatar.. Epic's post is great, just makes me remember why I care about music so much. |
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We'll always have some home, us digital nomads (more like e-gypos, really) - the two rules though will be to keep religion and politics out, and for me never to be in charge of the kill switch. |
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That's a lol! I do like you being in charge of the switch though. It adds a certain piment. |
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I know, but I think in future it'd have to be you as well, each of us having half of the launch code. Or maybe someone sensible like Paul, and neither of use irresponsible, impulsive arsonists who specialise in bridges. |
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i think this place has depression. and i think that this depression comes from a kind of emotional impass where something is stuck in the throat. it will follow you wherever you go. the artists of 21st century act as if there is nothing new to say and so does xltronic. depression. but talking about religion and politics is the new thing. its the unfashionable uncool little bit scary might be racist elephant in the room that no one wants to discuss. all your favourite artists writers and singers would tell u that awkward elephants make real art. |
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Maybe two keys we have to turn at the same time, supervised by Paul. I see what you mean, AMPI, but it's people that have depression. This site may have people who suffer from depression, possibly a lot, but the MB itself isn't depressed. I think a lot of people stopped participating here because they felt they would get hostile responses. It got a bit sad and people fled to WATMM for a more peaceful and controlled environment. |
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What are you implying? That this board needs a stricter moderation? I don't think that is a good idea. |
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Most definitely not! I just wish people were less worried about posting here. |
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I never made a definitive decision to leave the board, it just naturally happened about 8 years ago or so. Subconsciously, I think it was related to the points that AMPI and Russell raise here - waning interesting in a type of music that felt like it was going nowhere, the message board itself feeling outdated, the increasing amount of hostility and trolling taking place, etc. Additionally I don't listen to IDM anymore. The only electronic music I really get into is ambient music. The whole synthetic glitchy beat thing has sounded stale to me for quite awhile. But when Mark Bell died I came back here and did find myself listening to some electronica/IDM again, for nostalgic purposes mostly. So yeah... for me this board is sort of a nostalgia haven, and for that reason I hope it never changes. |
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It's decided then, this site should remain "as is", preserved in aspic. Now more poignant than ever, as a place where we knew Jivver (not Bell the flesh and blood family man and good friend to many, not LFO the musical legacy, though of course bits of those). Let it stand, a place we can return to as things go ever rapidly south. |
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Amen (break) |
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I don't think it's beyond reason to suggest the board has depression. I have depression, and I know others here do. If you think of the amount of "stuff" we've all, over the years, pumped into XLT... there's a saying in spanish, "Los años pesan", the years weigh heavy. The owner himself seems to be afflicted be some increasing torpor. It'd make a good book. Well, a book. |
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Saying the "community" is depressed sounds more relevant than XLT "itself" being depressed. But yeah, probably Zilty has a mind of it's own and isn't impressed with me not taking it's sickness and pain seriously. |
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XLT is the community. XLT on its own is... what, a table based HTML layout. Its sickness and pain is our sickness and pain. Does it need treatment, or being taken out behind the shed and shot? Or should it be allowed to work out its own solution, its own salvation? I think we know the answer. |
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I see what you mean. But at best (at best) I can imagine xlt as a physical place. A place that began as a night club, became a lounge and is now probably a basement. A basement full of depressed people. Though to be fair you and |
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YouTube and other media streaming services really changed the dynamics of life. Remember getting really excited for Gantz Graff, and then take a bunch of drugs and watching / listening to it over and over again and posting on the board? The board had a purpose back then. That was all pre-YouTube. In those days you gathered around a message board to rave about one song or one music video. Now, we're surrounded by media 24/7, what's the point? Everyone is just clicking through shit, letting it sit in the background, and then moving onto the next thing. But, don't be fooled into thinking it was better (or should I say healthier?). We were just as addicted to entertainment back then as we are now, it's just an easier fix these days. "When the industry of entertainment takes over, as it is gradually doing now, when the young people, the students, the children, are constantly instigated to pleasure, to fancy, to romantic sensuality, the words restraint and austerity are pushed away, never even given a thought. The austerity of the monks, the sannyasis, who deny the world, who clothe their bodies with some kind of uniform or just a cloth—this denial of the material world is surely not austerity. You probably won’t even listen to this, to what the implications of austerity are. When you have been brought up from childhood to amuse yourself and escape from yourself through entertainment, religious or otherwise, and when most of the psychologists say that you must express everything you feel and that any form of holding back or restraint is detrimental, leading to various forms of neuroticism, you naturally enter more and more into the world of sport, amusement, entertainment, all helping you to escape from yourself, from what you are. The understanding of the nature of what you are, without any distortions, without any bias, without any reactions to what you discover you are, is the beginning of austerity." -Krishnamurti |
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I'm sure you'll agree the board still has a purpose. Maybe not so much about finding out what's coming out. I'd have love to taste that '60s and '70s vibe when it comes to listening to music. You've bought this LP and all your mates are coming round to listen to it religiously, while passing the cover around. I'm sure it still happens in certain circles, but it seems today the kids are happy to have a computer chock-a-block full of tracks they don't listen to. It's like status. Like Facebook friends. |
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years weight if you're looking for a job |
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i read all the thread except EpicMegatracx's posts |
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Electronic music is still at the forefront of inovation. I find it a bit odd, if people here are not interested in a more updated layout of the board. |
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I'm more interested in your posts, year after year, even if often puzzling, than a new layout. Do you feel/think you've changed since you first began coming here? Because, and I don't mean to be rude, you don't seem to change one bit. At first I thought you were just a nervous late teen. But you must be in your thirties now. |
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No, i didn't change that much. Tho i found the trolls in the Mark Bell thread a bit tasteless. Maybe i am getting old. |
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You know, some of those "men" didn't really know how to respond to his wit, so they wait until he can't respond. Spineless. I take comfort in knowing he would laugh it off. |
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Mind you, 4chan looks the same as it ever did, and I don't think they have this existential angst all the time. Maybe zilty's too European, Nordic even. Think Ingmar Bergman. |
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Bergman? Fucking hell. Zilty is a genius, a depressed genius! Persona comes to mind. |
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Or are we playing chess here? |
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in the olden days ppl got mad if u posted a streaming link instead of mp3 download now they get mad if u post a download and not soundcloud or you tube |
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Aaah, internet forums..... I've been a longtime member of a few noteworthy music/art boards, and I've realized- as with all life- change is inevitable. No amount of future tech could be greater than the energy of a collective people to make a community what it is. For whatever reason, certain characters accumulate in separate boards; even for the same subject matter. And thus- with the helping hand of site aesthetics- board character is born. But these people are from a time and are changing through time. Forums over a few years old have people who start to grow and change together, further crystallizing the board character. An individual's influence spreads like wildfire through all individuals involved in a forum, and this further morphing+constant crystallization is what makes a forum into a living entity. It feeds off people's hearts to stay alive and rewards them for keeping it alive. But by an entity being born, its death is inevitable in one way or another. This is a sad, but inescapable truth. To wish a forum to stay at its golden peak, is a wish for all people involved to never change. People like to think of internet as "virtual" but there is nothing virtual about much of it. We are all ACTUALLY sharing. This shit is real as fuck. THIS IS REAL LIFE. Mark Bell passing also made me realize just how fragile yet significant all this shit can be. A music great died, but it hit me hard that a community member had died. Mark Bell WAS JivverDicker, no matter how different he was elsewhere. Being a member of a great community is a PRIVILEGE, and if one wishes to spend their last years in troll mode, so be it. But this is real life. This is not a game to win. This is an opportunity to experience something wonderful-- do with your time here what you will. I appreciate everyone on xlt for making it what it's been over the years. THANK YOU ALL. It's not gonna last forever, but it doesn't have to. If you've never appreciated this place, then it never existed for you, anyway. |
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RealAudio FTW. |
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