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 (nobody)...and 385 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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So I want to trigger two ableton sets on two laptops simultaneously from off stage. At the moment I do this by usb keyboard via a fucking long MIDI cable which goes in to a splitter and then to the audio interfaces of the two laptops. Anybody do something similar using an iPhone/iPad app? I know I can control two ableton sets via one device using a number of apps but synchronicity, stability (it can't lose connection before the end of the set as it has to be used to stop the set at the end as well) and reliability are key. What's your recommended app? Preferably one that will work over an ad hoc network. |
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lemur ios is the way to go. i use the original lemur and it's a fantastic piece of software, totally customizable, and it runs on osc over wifi so getting it to interact with two different computers and ableton is a piece of cake. altho i'm not sure about being able to run three devices on one ad hoc network, i think that'd most likely depend on your network hardware. |
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If you do an ad hoc network the iPad will only see the laptop it's ad-hoc'd to. That happens at the OS level, not the app level. One thing you might try is using a router with QoS enabled to put the highest priority to the ports used for midi. Tomato firmware can do this. For apps, I know that Lemur can have multiple midi destinations, and should be able to address different computers as long as they all have the Lemur daemon installed. But you should check Griid from the same company, as it's 1/5 the price and might also have the same capability, plus it's already specifically designed for Ableton so you don't have to muck about creating your own layouts. As for OSC with Ableton, wouldn't you need to run Osculator in the middle to translate OSC to MIDI? |
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lemur's daemon translates the osc information to midi, or at least that's how i think it works - you just assign a control to send midi data in the template builder and the software does the rest. |
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dd-wrt would also be a good choise for router firmware, it's hella stable. |
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Thanks guys, great info. Do you think there is a possibility of hooking the two computers up physically (ethernet?) and using one as the 'master' that receives the OSC signal wirelessly then sends it to the 'slave'. The computers are right next to each other and run identical sets. If the audio on the main stops a Radial switcher flicks over to the second computer almost instantly and the set carries on so a small amount of latency is acceptable, it just sounds like a blip to the audience. I really want to get rid of this awful long cable. Also I don't want to buy another laptop (the one I use to stop and start the show is dying) all I use mine for outside of this task is watching movies while travelling and replying to emails. Would much rather get a tablet and save some dough. |
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I'd set computer A to 'A' in Ableton and computer B to 'B' on both computers cross faders. Then you can set up the other controllers for whatever you want and it keep it simple. You are just asking for trouble with peoples smartphones messing around with your set using wifi. |
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Yeah this is my worry about going wireless. It's fraught with problems and the audiences are large. There's no real room for error. I just really really hate this single, ludicrously long, gaffa taped MIDI cable and having to find a spot to set up an off stage laptop at every show, which sometimes is a fucking nightmare (club gigs). |
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I'm not getting why you have the third computer at all. |
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It powers the USB controller and also runs a copy of the ableton set for monitoring purposes, so I know when to trigger videos (on a fourth computer), how long is left of the set, the set list etc. None of that is really essential to me now though, there's only a few possible sets that will be played and I've done the show enough times to know all the information I need. A clock feedback from the stage computers would be nice just to know if my start and stop messages are getting through, but not essential. Other than that the laptop can go as far as I'm concerned. I press a key, the message gets sent via USB to the monitoring computer and MIDI to the stage computers. The whole set up is bloated and stupid. |
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well i mean, if you're using an ipad you kind of have to go wireless... having your own compact wireless router with some stable firmware would be a lot more reliable than an ad hoc network and having to pipe the midi from one computer to the other - that would be adding a whole other step, i would think works against the idea of having the second laptop as a failsafe in the first place. with a wireless router and lemur, your ipad will broadcast osc to the network, which either computer can receive and translate to midi independently with the jazzmutant daemon, removing any possible issues with one computer screwing up the other's data signal. and no cables! altho if you want you can connect your two computers via ethernet to the router. |
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You can do wired midi with an ipad using a midi mobilizer or an Alesis io dock. I'm not 100 percent sure I'd trust wifi on stage. It's OK for modulating control signals like filter cutoff but it shits itself sometimes and the connection latency will change from 3ms to 50ms or worse. So, not much use for stable sync. Anyhow if I were you I'd put in more thought to redesigning the whole setup rather than replacing a part or two. Use a mind mapping software to work out your objectives as abstractly as possible, then start filling things in with hardware and software. |
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just a sidenote : instead of lemur there is also i've seen it a few times live with full feedback and was working perfectly fine. i don't really like the idea of sending the messages through the first laptop as, in case the system crashes or the laptop dies, the second one will also be uncontrollable. in this case really the best solution would be a third computer. it might be just a simple netbook or even some old pentium3 era ultra-portable notebook. it could then take the osc over wi-fi into pure-data, split it up and send it to both laptops. you could even try one of these new raspberry pi mini-computers. it runs linux so it also runs pure data. might be a problem with drivers for a midi interface though. |
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for example. it's very expensive tbh but i guess with a little searching you can find something dirt-cheap on ebay for a few quid. these are fanless also and still have enough juice to run even windows xp. |
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Fleetmouse, yeah I'll be redesigning everything at the end of the year. This set up has been incrementally updated for four years and it shows. Loads of unnecessary bulky gear which is barely used there's a Korg MS-2000 that is used as a MIDI controller on two tracks for gods sake. I would kill fr a piece of kit like that. Dave, TouchOSC is fantastic. I've been using it in Max on a couple of A/V installations I've made. I hadn't thought about a PD/Max patch, that's actually a really nice idea. I was going to write one to automate all the video work in the redesign anyway. I might end up doing some sort of media server control station. |
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why are you calling me dave ? |
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you're not Dave ? |
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i'm definitely not dave. at least i wasn't. but it's a fine name. dave. |
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i would make a great dave. |
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Haha sorry Dave, I'm dense. |
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to be honest i don't have that much experience with using wifi, as when i'm working with a lemur it's the original, not an ipad, so it actually has an ethernet port. |
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You're my wife now Dave. TouchOSC is super nice too, and cheap, and also does native MIDI now as well as OSC. Plus the developer is adding Lua scripting soon. A PD patch is a fantastic idea - it could re-route MIDI to multiple destinations in a patch that would take ten minutes to build. I find it's inefficient for OSC though. It can burn through a surprising amount of CPU parsing OSC strings, if you're sending lots of them. Maybe Max is better, I dunno, I don't use it. |
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That rocks. I wish the iPad had an ethernet adapter add-on, like through the camera connection kit. I don't think that exists though. |
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I use OSC in Max to read Kinect skeleton points tracking as well as simpler controls and it's not until I'm tracking 7 or 8 points each providing three floats of data that I start to see a significant hit in resources (and that's while rendering an openGL scene with a physics engine). For the purposes of this task it should be more than ample. |
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yeah the ipad lemur app really dosen't compare to the original - that thing's an absolute beast, it puts up to a lot of punishment. i couldn't count how many dusty, dirty festivals it has been to without a hiccup. (as for the dmx lighting rig, that's a different story.) also, since it's pressure-based touch instead of capacitive, you can track an unlimited number of fingers! we've had three people with all ten fingers each tracked on it at once :P |
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I love the hardware lemur but can't justify the expense of getting one for myself. Has it been worth it as far as you're concerned? More importantly, would you buy one again given the way programmable interfaces have progressed since it was released? |
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the one i use was actually bought by my partner, so i can't attest to how much it hurt in the wallet, but he has been more than vocal about how worth it was - it's been the main controls for his music projects and our lighting for the last four years. it's a fantastic piece of hardware, but considering they're discontinued i can only imagine what the cost of an old unit would be at this point, i wouldn't think it would be worth it if you're working on any kind of a limited budget, compared to the 4 or 5 other pieces of gear you could get for the same price. however, if you happen into the situation where money's not an issue, fuck yeah! currently if i were to invest in another control surface, it would be the quneo. dirt cheap, and while its not as customizable as lemur, there's so many options it's hard to think of something you wouldn't be able to accomplish with it. |
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I might have to come back regularly if there's more threads like this. Fav+ (IF IT WORKED) |
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Did you buy your laptops new or used for a more niggardly price? http://thesaurus.com/browse/economical |
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