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So in the song, Undersea Disturbances, would you say Heinrich Mueller is mostly present? His technique? I'm wondering this because there's an evident similarity between Drexciya Der Zyklus with 808 programming and synthesizer melodies. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is The Other People Place, isn't that Stinson? But alot of it sounds very Mueller. So let me clear this up, Stinson's technique is very apparent on Lab Rat XL, the harsher 909 feel, while Mueller is the mellower 808 style? |
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*Drexciya and Der Zyklus |
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mueller = donald |
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it's like 'mike and rich' - you'll never be able to distinguish who did what from what did whom. |
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generally speaking, i think it's reasonably fair to say stinson's elements are more soulful and donald's are more avant garde |
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so what you're saying is that Stinson is like Funkadelic and Donald is like Herbie Hancock? |
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expert commentary |
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Under Sea Disturbances is clearly a Stinson track, you can tell apart who did what tracks very easily, I don't think they collaborated often, maybe on the earlier EP's. |
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Also Digital Tsunami song of forever. |
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Danger Bay is a Donald track, the later Drexciya albums were all Stinson. |
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never heard danger bay |
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never heard this either, its sweet, i love when drexciya uses that effect on the snare with the the long decay |
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the only album where i am sure donald did some track solo is neptunes lair, everything else seemed more of a collaborative or stinson solo. |
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i miss James Stinson every day :( |
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stinson used 808 too i'm sure. and i'd say stinson is the more "mellow" sounding. arpanet is more the donald sound. check out shifted phases - the cosmic memoirs of the late great rupert j. rosinthrope [tresor196], apparently stinson only. much like the sound of harnessed the storm. |
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for Stinson at his most painfully beautiful, listen to "You said you want me" on The Other People Place LP |
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Yes Stinson tracks were so unique, people can copy Donald and they have but no one ever managed to copy Stinson, they can copy the sounds but the emotion and feel of the tracks is unmatched!! I can only imagine what he would be doing today. |
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Ah yes the flanged snares, I love how they managed to make the tracks sound so aquatic without using obvious sounds like wave splashes or other new-age crap. |
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I find the apotheosis of Kraftwerk apparent in both their works, singlehanded as collaborative. Clearly Stinson evolved more. He's unique and a guy doing his best for all the right reasons. ("Experiments must continue at all costs, even if it means death.") But of course you have to like Donald projects as well, even if he never has left the Kraftwerk sound/since he has had the courage to never leave (but shapen) the Kraftwerk sound, preserve the igniting flash. Is by the way The Quest the most expensive of all techno records – of all time? It has surpassed Philosophy of Sound and Machine. |
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how much does it go for nowadays? i have a mint conditioned one.... |
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i got the quest new for a reasonable price not THAT long ago. |
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A mint conditioned Quest double CD on Discogs goes nowadays for £200. |
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i think i can kind of tell which bits who's in the drexciya but it probably has no connection to 'the truth' .. only from listening to the 'solo' things and noticing bits now + again. hrm |
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i see your 200 and rais you a 999euro copy of the uncharted ep which is the only drex 12 i dont have grrr |
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wow i bet james would be bummed that his music is being sold for those kind of prices. |
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These are grails of techno. |
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Music of Drexciya deserves its price in every way, but its really expensive, that means not everyone should have this Vynil at home |
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Clone sooner or later will reissue them, they already did with Glass Domain! Clarence G - Hyperspace Sound Lab is probably the most expensive record though. |
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Thats bullshit. Gerald Donald is easily just as capable when it comes to emotion/melody in sound. Go listen to Formenverwandler if you don't believe me. I always prefered his music to that of Stinsons simply because he is willing to take more risks. I love Drexciya, but for me, 75% of Stinsons music was throwaway, with the rest being very very good. Donald gets it right almost every time for me. |
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yeah, if you heard that new record Gerald released called Puttin It Out, the title track's melody sounds a lot like under sea disturbances, or eye contact |
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oops, i mean sunrays |
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I think there's a widespread misconception that cold-, empty- and shapness aren't emotional states. I find Donald's music to be very emotionally engaging. Linear Accelerator is a deep dive into the harsh feelings of man. And from experiencing him live you can tell he's a sensitive artist. However probably people in general prefer warmth, sympathy, soothing goodness etc, thus Stinson's supremacy. As for experimentation, UR leader Mad Mike declared Stinson to be the one pushing "the envelope" hardest of them all. But why comparing the two in this quantitative manner? I think most of us could agree that both are tremendous musicians that have done and still do great services for techno, homes and dancefloors all over the world. I prefer them gathered, allthough Drexciya seems to be dominated by Stinson. On the technical note Pulseclock initiates, the only equipment used on the two Dopplereffekt live performances I've attended was Korg Triton Le. According to a synth (and Roland) freak friend, it produced all sounds hearable. |
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Cellular Phone, awesome party beat. And the faint string synth sound that randomly is in the background sounds alot like the one from Radiohead's National Anthem. |
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Didn't say that, only said Stinson's tracks were much harder to copy mainly due to the feel he put into them. |
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That still makes no sense. What do you mean "the feel" he put into them? There are loads of other artists from both sides of the Atlantic that managed to make emotionally inspired techno/electro like him. Nobody who pushes a genre in a certain direction is free from having people being influenced by them. That's just the way music work. Clones are gonna exist no matter what - it's the people who push it further and with their own twist that stand out. |
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Why do you keep reading "feel" as "emotional"? Feel involves more than just melancholic melodies, it's about the atmosphere, the ideas behind the music, the intentions, the technique, the approach, it's much more than just making emotional and melancholic tracks. |
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Sure. Every artist has their own idioscyncracies due to their own particular circumstances (be it hardware or just the way they work), but you're saying that other artists can successfully replicate Geralds music (including everyone encompassing "the feel" as you like to describe it) yet can't do the same with Stinsons? I think thats quite an insult to Gerald Donald, as if to say he just lets his machines do it all for him without putting anything of himself into his music. As I say, I love Drexciya, but other artists can get the same sort of vibes from their music. Bitstreams "Monolith" springs to mind for example. |
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md says: I think that one of the reasons that Bitstream have such a unique sound to their tracks is they rarely if ever use any of the "traditional" sounds that permeate the electro genre. Outside of their very early material (the first two releases on Signal) you seldom hear any tracks dominated by TR-808 sounds, for example. Synthesised bleeps and blurps take the place of hi-hats, snares and bass drums. Where other artists roll out the same stereotypical analogue electro riffs, synth patches and structures, Bitstream obviously take time and care to produce something intricate and different, that stands out from the crowd. |
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Is it true what someone said in another thread, that the Drexciya hype started with Stinson's death, that the panegyric is a (simple) case of death romanticism? |
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From a (vocoded) French interview with Arpanet in July 2006: Heinrich Müller is walking on the eugenism path with a unexpected beautiful world in mind: "Eugenism is related to racism but I think that it can have good effects. Reducing the crime rate for example. I totally believe that human beings can be improved by genetic operations." Those frightening words don't lead to fascism he says: "Involving the Homo-Sapiens wouldn’t have been controlled by politics but by science itself." And so on with GMOs: "This type of technology could be either good or dangerous. It only depends on who applies those technologies. Although ethics is accommodating theories, discoveries, it’s not enough to prevent certain kinds of abuses from happening." We had to sterilize the population! |
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Does he have an eugenic development of the Drexciyan warrior in mind, do you think? |
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no, not really. at the time the quest was released it was already widely known that it was a landmark compilation of "classic detroit electro techno". the older drexciya eps were already seen as classics before stinson's death. it may have helped a bit, but they would have been growing more popular anyways, i guess. you could even argue that they would be even more popular if stinson was still around producing tunes. |
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what's so wrong about liking someone's music after they died, is it supposed to die with them? Just because Stinson's fame survived his death doesn't make a difference. I don't know much about Romanticism, but i do think that his death affected his music because, his music was already great, so his death just gives his music more of its own place, for everyone to have to for themselves. |
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He's a smart guy, but i don't get why anyone wants to alter the genetics of living things. Unless it's to eradicate a virus or disease. |
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You say it yourself, Pulseclock: give music more of its own place, let music be heard beyond life and death, irrespective of creator, perhaps even listener. Some gain (their) immortality mainly through their death. Ian Curtis and Kurt Cobain are classic examples from contemporary music. (But don't get me wrong: I love Joy Division and am a big fan of the Curtis myth.) |
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I like a lot of Joy division too, though, i like the band more than Ian, because his vocals can sometimes sound too heavy, both emotionally and volume wise. But, the instrumentals in transmission and disorder and day of the lords are really innovative. It's sad Ian hung himself, He was a good band leader, just had real problems. |
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new order wuz better so remember folks, there's a silver lining in every cloud. |
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new order blows, !rellik daerht |
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Let's not kill threads – only good musicians, and their myths! How much is known about Stinson's heart condition? Was it a chronic disease suffered from birth? Can we speculate in how it affected his music making? Did he push the envelope hardest because he had less time, because he knew he had to act and concentrate? |
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Check the Kubi track on Japanese Telecom for a Gerald Donald 909 track. |
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