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4 basic properties of music
 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-11 17:31 [#02221187]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker



I been thinking about ways to categorize music, and in
doing so finding out what makes tracks unique..

So far I got

1. Melody
2. Rhythm
3. Sound design and general production values
4. Atmosphere, style and impression

I think all music has these basic properties, and if you
keep those in mind you can think about which tracks have new
and original twists on each 4..

I like the system anyway, and it added some clarity for me
in regards to listening to music.

wuuhuu peniissssss


 

offline noseburger on 2008-07-11 17:42 [#02221191]
Points: 1198 Status: Lurker



if you construct a system, you will only ever hear the
results defined by the boundaries.


 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-11 18:07 [#02221195]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker



good point, but its hard to listen to music completely
'raw', even though thats what happens most of the time, and
thats what counts, i still like to construct systems to
provide better music making etc


 

offline AMPI MAX from United Kingdom on 2008-07-11 18:28 [#02221198]
Points: 8225 Status: Lurker | Followup to cx: #02221195



It's best to have a system otherwise you get too 'outside
the box' which is shit. Experimenting is great n all, but
selecting your boundaries and shaping your sound within them
seems best to me.


 

offline SlipDrinkMats from Thanks (Bhutan) on 2008-07-11 19:09 [#02221213]
Points: 1744 Status: Regular



I'm sorry but I still won't listen to your spam. And
it is spam, not music.


 

offline leech from China (Hong Kong S.A.R.) on 2008-07-11 19:09 [#02221214]
Points: 105 Status: Lurker



love buds for you cx


 

offline yoyoyoyo from Sweden on 2008-07-11 19:13 [#02221216]
Points: 3200 Status: Regular | Followup to cx: #02221195



what about image?


 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-11 19:17 [#02221217]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker | Followup to SlipDrinkMats: #02221213



why do you say that slip?
:D


 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-11 19:18 [#02221218]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker



spam: balloon funk 3! brand new!

give it a go slip


 

offline Ron242 from Enschede (Netherlands, The) on 2008-07-11 19:19 [#02221220]
Points: 83 Status: Regular



What if the production intermingles with the rhythm, melody
and therefore the style?
I still think it's best to store the ideas on the fly
without having pre-defined tags other then that the track
has a guitar or say a tr-808 in it (artistnames, names, etc
are obvious).


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2008-07-11 20:06 [#02221240]
Points: 10994 Status: Addict



Yeah, that's called pitch, loudness, duration and timbre.


 

offline ecnadniarb on 2008-07-11 20:10 [#02221241]
Points: 24775 Status: Regular | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02221240 | Show recordbag



haha, very true.


 

offline w M w from London (United Kingdom) on 2008-07-12 00:03 [#02221260]
Points: 19954 Status: Regular



And the super special IDM property: panning.


 

offline diamondtron on 2008-07-12 00:24 [#02221262]
Points: 1051 Status: Lurker



1. Melody
2. Rhythm
3. Sound design and general production values
4. Atmosphere, style and impression

your analysis is probably interesting and valid for you and
others but i think its wrong
e.g you forgot Harmony (most people find it hard because
they are not harmonious in their mind body soul, who can
blame them in todays world)
melody and rhythm are the same thing if you think about it,
even the same as sound. it all starts with the sound. if you
got GREAT sounds then the tracks might even write themselves
(with a bit of practice). Obviously the feelings and
thoughts of the person at the controls will colour the
result but beyond that don't think about it too much and
you'll make better tunes, art is an expression of science;
it's left brain vs right brain, balls vs heart and all that
stuff n thangs n stuff
Do something original that's from YOU, that will be
endearing or charming or entertaining or interesting or
satisfying or fun etc bla ... too much tedious music that is
made with too much brain power alone or too much cash or too
much wannabe failings


 

offline hedphukkerr from mathbotton (United States) on 2008-07-12 00:38 [#02221264]
Points: 8810 Status: Lurker



"melody and rhythm are the same thing if you think about it,
even the same as sound."

well that's just fucking stupid.


 

offline pulseclock from Downtown 81 on 2008-07-12 00:58 [#02221266]
Points: 6015 Status: Lurker



1. shut
2. up
3. terds
4. make music


 

offline diamondtron on 2008-07-12 02:06 [#02221267]
Points: 1051 Status: Lurker



well a melody has rhythm and a rhythm has melody
maybe not in scientific semantic terms but certainly for
real

and if you at very fast rates, voltage values normally used
to determine pitch (and melody) can be used to mould
waveforms and therefore sounds so it's not fucking stupid,
well no more so than any other of us monkeys are
I'm getting at rhythm = sound + timing / melody = sound +
timing / harmony = sounds + timings
it all starts with a) sound, b) the user's science
(genetics/upbringing/vision, imagination, emotiona range,
wisdom etc) and how able/succinctly the user communicates
their science = music, as well as the mood they're in at the
time
jesus, do you think i would waste time trying to prop this
messageboard without trying to be constructive with my
personal opinion. all you are offering me is negativity :(
i already made a track this morning, EMU drumulator, Roland
SH09 (bassdrum), commodore 64 and ems vcs3 + ks sequencer so
kiss my balls


 

offline hedphukkerr from mathbotton (United States) on 2008-07-12 02:41 [#02221272]
Points: 8810 Status: Lurker



um, rhythm and melody are completely different things.
rhythm is the duration of notes and the duration between
these notes. melody is the pitch. you can play any melody
with any rhythm you want, and vice versa. thus melody does
not have a rhythm.


 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-12 02:46 [#02221273]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker | Followup to dariusgriffin: #02221240



thats the properties of sound, not music..

but lols

diamond..
i forgot harmony yes, i dont disagree with you, but i dont
fully agree either.
i also forgot percussion obviously..

but this is just a way to categorize musical pieces for me,
every musical piece has more original content in either one
of these, or even all, but thats very rare nowadays.

HEY GUYS I DUNNO, IT WAS JUST AN IDEA. dont diss


 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-12 02:54 [#02221275]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker | Followup to w M w: #02221260



panning is extremely important, doh

I LOVE PANNING


 

offline mohamed on 2008-07-12 04:55 [#02221291]
Points: 14351 Status: Addict | Show recordbag



you forgot Harmony (most people find it hard because
they are not harmonious in their mind body soul, who can
blame them in todays world)
melody and rhythm are the same thing if you think about it,

even the same as sound. it all starts with the sound. if you

got GREAT sounds then the tracks might even write themselves

(with a bit of practice)


that's exactly the only parameter that happens to follow
here


 

offline staz on 2008-07-12 04:56 [#02221292]
Points: 9784 Status: Lurker



diamondtron is a wise man


 

offline noseburger on 2008-07-12 05:06 [#02221294]
Points: 1198 Status: Lurker



this thread is stupid.


 

offline yoyoyoyo from Sweden on 2008-07-12 05:13 [#02221295]
Points: 3200 Status: Regular | Followup to cx: #02221275



what about drugs ?


 

offline freqy on 2008-07-12 05:38 [#02221299]
Points: 8989 Status: Regular | Show recordbag




if my penis was any bigger, i would need to get a newer
trolley to carry it with, as this one has little wheels that
are not of the highest quality.


 

offline cx from Norway on 2008-07-12 05:39 [#02221300]
Points: 4532 Status: Lurker | Followup to noseburger: #02221294



its not stupid dude, its very good
i will name it ARMS

atmosphere, rhythm, melody and sound

drugs are pooey


 

offline freqy on 2008-07-12 05:42 [#02221302]
Points: 8989 Status: Regular | Show recordbag




space.


 

offline freqy on 2008-07-12 05:42 [#02221303]
Points: 8989 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



sp^ace


 

offline dave_g from United Kingdom on 2008-07-12 06:16 [#02221305]
Points: 3359 Status: Lurker



4 basic properties:

* original ideas/inspiration

* copying someone else

* accidental discovery of some technique, sound, etc

* feedback from audience/friends/etc alters perception and
ideas

~ That's it really. Pretty much every song has all, some or
none of these attributes. Melody, Rhythm, atmosphere? wtf. I
couldn't define the difference between melody and rhythm.
Atmosphere is surely dependant to a large extent on where
it is heard and with whom at what time,etc
Sound design? I'm going to get in a telephone box, Bill &
Ted stlye, bring back all those old composers and ask them
about sound design.

I can't stand this let's analyse music thread. Why FOUR
basic properties? How can you be sure there are 4? Maybe 7
because its a more mystical number. Or 5 like the pillars of
islam? How about 6, cos that's half a dozen.

I think my 4 properties are as irrelevant as any others you
can come up with. Music has a single property and that is
emotional response. Music does not really benefit us in any
physical way. Animals do not use music like we do, ok birds
sing to attract mates and a lot of bands have groupies, but
you know what I mean.
Think of something like Dark Side of the Moon. You get an
emotional response from that. I like your idea of ARMS.
Please use your own ARMS to smack some sense into your
head.

In related news I've determined the four basic properties of
cars:
engine
wheels
leather seats
50 CD multichanger in the boot.

am I right or what?



 

offline hedphukkerr from mathbotton (United States) on 2008-07-12 06:24 [#02221308]
Points: 8810 Status: Lurker



oh for fuck's sake

rhythm, melody, velocity, & timbre

everything else in music is derivative of the above four.
it's pretty well agreed upon. stop trying to sound smart and
make some music people will listen to.

i like dave's ideas as well. a different angle, but equally
applicable, altho i dunno if feedback belongs in the same
group as the previous three or in a category of its own
because really, what is music without someone to appreciate
it?

stop being self indulgent and think of the audience.


 

offline noseburger on 2008-07-12 07:09 [#02221317]
Points: 1198 Status: Lurker



all music has

Attack
Decay
Sustain
Release


 

offline diamondtron on 2008-07-12 07:35 [#02221319]
Points: 1051 Status: Lurker



music is organised sounds?
organisemyphaceoffhowyalike


 

offline diamondtron on 2008-07-12 07:37 [#02221320]
Points: 1051 Status: Lurker



freqy of course you nailed it man I agree!


 

offline diamondtron on 2008-07-12 07:37 [#02221321]
Points: 1051 Status: Lurker



about the trolley I mean...


 

offline larn from PLANET E (United Kingdom) on 2008-07-12 08:13 [#02221327]
Points: 5029 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



Iím going to talk about the difficulty in writing,
specifically electronic music, which may get slightly off
topic, but Iím sure you donít mind.
Attempting to understand how a great sound is achieved is a
really interesting discussion, from a technical point of
view, it takes allot of programming, using certain formulas
and scientific yet very abstract process. The more time you
put into this part of the production, the better the sound
will be. People often skip this part and just get right into
jamming some presets, and see what cooks up, thatís fine,
but you wonít find that desired sound quality which makes
your track original.
Artistic merit is awarded to a small percentage of
electronic musicians; this is because too many approach it
without heart, they just force the music out. I admit i have
done this. Especially with a lack of hardware, if youíre
sitting in front of a grid pencilling in events and watching
it on a timeline, you find yourself thinking too hard and it
gets tough to get ideas to flow.
I have a good friend who is a professional musician, she
plays the cello, and while performing she has to become very
connected to the piece, because there is a story behind a
symphony. Almost like being inside an acting role, you can't
play in an orchestra without heart, your playing will be
stiff, and to a trained ear, this would not be acceptable.
I'm not saying it's impossible to play with heart when
programming your music, because you can spend hours working
on a synth module, then once you have the sound jam with it.
My point is that there is a longer process to writing music
with technology, and in that process itís hard to maintain
your creative flow and emotion.
(Iím being a bit serious today)
Regards,
Larn



 

offline goDel from ɐpʎǝx (Seychelles) on 2008-07-12 08:15 [#02221328]
Points: 10180 Status: Lurker



in alphabetic order:
1. 101
2. 303
3. 606
4. 808


 

offline AstonishingSod on 2008-07-12 08:20 [#02221330]
Points: 4 Status: Regular



cx, i just gave your track "balloon funk" a listen. nice
one.


 

offline SlipDrinkMats from Thanks (Bhutan) on 2008-07-12 08:23 [#02221332]
Points: 1744 Status: Regular | Followup to AstonishingSod: #02221330



Now listen to the other half billion.


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2008-07-12 08:25 [#02221333]
Points: 10994 Status: Addict | Followup to cx: #02221273



Your approach is commendable but the categories you use are
subjective and meaningless, and are only valid for music
with mad beats and lush pads.
What is melody? Is it the lead, the chord progression? What
about atonal music, microtonal music, sheer fucking noise?
What is rhythm? What is the rhythm of a drone, of a musique
concrŤte piece?
Besides, melody and rhythm are not separate components. A
melody has rhythm, a rhythm has pitch.
Sound design, general production values, PANNING, this is
all about the management of loudness and timbre.

And atmosphere, style and impression, that's just bullshit.
However you could add something about the context of a
piece, its historical and sociological aspects etc.


 

offline Exaph from United Kingdom on 2008-07-12 08:26 [#02221334]
Points: 3718 Status: Lurker



4 = 1+2+3


 

offline diamondtron on 2008-07-12 08:43 [#02221340]
Points: 1051 Status: Lurker



yes but -1 is an impossibility, try
differentiation/integration of...


 

offline CS2x from London (United Kingdom) on 2008-07-12 09:05 [#02221345]
Points: 5079 Status: Lurker | Followup to cx: #02221187



Like dariusgriffin said, I don't think all those categories
really work at all for lots of types of music, and the first
two are merged anyway, and the last in particular, like
anything to do with talking about what art is or isn't, is
not some celestial absolute hanging in the Heavens, but is
always subject to and decided by a surrounding culture and
listener/listeners. There is nothing intrinsic to any of
this, at all. That doesn't make it any less magical to
experience and create, of course, and beyond studying the
components of past genres for specific purposes (university
studies, a pitch for a film score, a dreadful pastiche,
maybe) I see no advantage in reducing "music" to any core
values.




 

offline big from lsg on 2008-07-12 09:13 [#02221346]
Points: 21014 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood


 

offline glasse from Harrisburg (United States) on 2008-07-12 09:58 [#02221356]
Points: 4107 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



I been is nothing intrinsic and blood even the same as
sound. I see this thread PANNING if you construct a system
organised sounds thats the properties of connected to the
piece of past genres. Iím going to talk about yellow bile
and create, of course, its historical and sociological
aspects, defined by the boundaries.

1. 4 = 1+2+3
2. melody and rhythm are the same thing
3. core values
4. give it a go slip

I see no advantage to the other half billion. nice one. And
the super special IDM property, a surrounding culture of
university studies and blood in reducing "music" for a film
score, store the ideas to a large extent, so kiss my
microtonal balls. That doesn't make it any less magical to
have a good friend, but lols, if my penis was any bigger i
will name it ARMS.

mangled


 

offline glasse from Harrisburg (United States) on 2008-07-12 10:16 [#02221366]
Points: 4107 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



Seriously though, for me it's all about Charlie Kaufman &
Bruce Lee.

The line in Adaptation which says, there are no rules, only
principals. This works, this doesn't. That line really
stuck with me.

Also, Bruce Lee. He comes up on a martial arts group
training and this guy says I have developed a stance
where no man can push me
. So he gets Bruce Lee to try
and push him, and Bruce Lee walks up and clocks the guy.
When they are like what was that about, he says I don't
push.


It's good to learn the rules, the theory, the form, and to
have discipline. But then once you learn all that you have
to learn how to forget it, or at lest bend it, step outside
it, etc.


 

offline CS2x from London (United Kingdom) on 2008-07-12 10:37 [#02221369]
Points: 5079 Status: Lurker | Followup to glasse: #02221366



Sorry, it was drunken nonsense. And Bruce Lee is great, he's
got really nice thighs.


 

offline freqy on 2008-07-12 10:39 [#02221370]
Points: 8989 Status: Regular | Show recordbag




thanks diamondtron , yes i may need to update my trolley.
:P



 

offline glasse from Harrisburg (United States) on 2008-07-12 10:43 [#02221372]
Points: 4107 Status: Regular | Followup to CS2x: #02221369 | Show recordbag



I'm just having a temper tantrum because I'm frustrated with
my own music. I have no idea what music is about :P


 

offline dariusgriffin from cool on 2008-07-12 11:05 [#02221375]
Points: 10994 Status: Addict



But this isn't about rules :(


 

offline cygnus from nowhere and everyplace on 2008-07-12 11:11 [#02221378]
Points: 11862 Status: Regular



there is only one basic property of music and its "sound".
a/c units make really good music notes when they turn on
sometimes especially if its one of them hotel ones


 


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