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Analyzing is fun, it's fun to pick apart every little detail and pit bands, albums, and songs against one another in a brutal fight for supremacy. |
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this is jist a bunch of jessies talkin pish man. |
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Now were analizing over wither we analize music too much.........when will it ever end ? :D And yes I probably do over analize music,because I enjoy it :) |
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You look a bit like Spike Speagle in that photo. |
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If what’s being said it genuine and someone feels and trruly believes what they are saying and have enough passion forr a piece of music then I think they can go as farr as they want. But I think a lot of the time people don’t and therre is a lot of bullshit. |
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yes! thats the point i was getting at. the music starts to lose something when you talk and talk and talk and talk about it. sometimes one should just listen and experience it......rather than make suppositions about what the artist was trying to do....or what you THINK he/she was trying to do. so saying that.....for me ART (as in painting and sculpture) is wholly different. not only do i enjoy looking at the piece....i like knowing what it's made of, where the artist came from, and what might have inspired him. is this a double standard....why yes.....i guess it is.......ehheheheh =0D |
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it depends of the music of course, i think you can't generalize with all musics. and do you mean analysing the instrumental part, the lyrics, or the whole thing? analyzing lyrics NIN or Tool albums/songs for example is necessary to fully appreciate them. as for idm... only thing you could do is to search for technical things (which i don't know any single think about btw - "amen break"? "snare rush"? huh). not as much interesting i think, no meanings at all, but that's only my opinion. |
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well... I think its important to analyze music, as long as you can still just listen. when i want to, i can listen and anazlye, but i make a concious effort to do it. other wise, i just listen. I think its important to be able to do both (as a musician). But i will say, if you just analyze and dont listen, its very bad. So many people at berklee (mostly the jazz students) are just so obsessed with theory and what chords to use etc etc etc... it loses its emotion. i make a concious effort to learn as much about music as i can, but not lose the ability to just listen. i know people who listen to music and say "oh, listen to that, the chords are Amaj7, F7, E7, C#-7, and the melody, its goin Do Ti La Re Do Mi Do. i fucking hate that to no end. JUST LISTEN. sure, if i stopped, and got into analyzing mode, i could hear all that too, but its not what i focus on. The same applies to production techniques. I just listen, but then ill acctually think "ok whats goin on" and analyze the production. so... yeah. Long story short: analyzing good, listening good. Just analyzing:bad, just listening: not nessasarilly bad, but its alsogood to analyze. imo |
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yeah, I'm pretty similar...kinda have 2 listening modes; sometimes I'm just listening for the sheer thrill of listening to music, no real thought involved, just enjoyment...catch me at the right time & I dance me socks off...:).. then sometimes I like to listen really closely to tunse...especially shit like AE...paying attention to all the details & enjoying the textures & rhythms on a different level...less physical, more cerebal... Both are equally enjoyable, I reckon.... And I think sometimes, espcially on mbs, it's handy to use music as a jumping off point to other subjects...so what can looks like people over-analysing stuff is really just using it a reference point; it something we all share so it's handy, kinda like a shared language... |
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It's nice to see us agree (on the music anyway... is this a double standard....why yes.....i guess it is.......ehheheheh... hm, it's no fun when you just admit it like that! :-p Now i can't cleverly point out you have a double standard anymore ;-))... because it's always a nice experience to see someone else say what you're thinking... hehe... it's like i wrote this myself: sometimes one should just listen and experience it......rather than make suppositions about what the artist was trying to do....or what you THINK he/she was trying to do. I fully agree! (hell, i even wrote an essay on this subject when i was still in artschool... pretty much saying how arthistory-class sometimes ruined art for me ;-) And she (teacher) loved it, lol). Like i've said before: i don't make music myself, so i can't even listen to music in that way... 'how was it created'... like Zeus described. Sometimes i just feel blessed for my ignorance ;-) I mean... eversince i learned to work with QuarkXpress i can't look at posters or magazine-layouts normally anymore. I just see QuarkXpress-compositions. Most of that stuff seems boring to me now. I fear it would be the same for music. When you understand it too much, you lose lose something at the same time. |
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OK, when I said non-referential, I meant non-referential to language, is that OK? And the language is the house of meaning as Heidegger put it so nicely. A music that refers to another music is still non-referential when it comes to associating meaning with it. Fuck Heidegger with an old shoe. Music is a form of communication. In some forms it may be as obscure as Chinese to you (I'm assuming you don't speak Chinese here, okay). But just because you don't understand Mandarin is no reason to say the Chinese are talking nonsense. And the same is true of music: whether or not you understand the language/idiom, there is semantic content. Hell, just the fact that it's structured at all is a kind of message--what do you think SETI is looking for? [snip] (When listening to tuwan folk band Huun huur tu I always get all those religious associations, whereas most of it talks about breeding horses and living in Taiga). I think you're making HUGE assumptions about the relative importance or unimportance of breeding horses and living in Taiga to those who do it! I suspect it may be a lot more important to them than it sounds to you. I have to say I am a little surprised that I have succeeded in maintaining an intelligent discussion without resorting to talking about porn for three posts straight. Wet dripping snatch! Soapy tit wank! Cum on my face and tits! Bang my ass harder and longer! |
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A great way to get out of analytical listening mode is to slip on the ol' headphones and fire up the tunes, then drink a beer while posting to the ol' bulletin board. Do anything else while listening. That's how I found out what a good soundtrack loop finding jazz records is to sweet sweeet loooooove makin'. |
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fleetmice: Fuck Heidegger with an old shoe. *chokes* ... how could you ... what blasphemy! Music is a form of communication. In some forms it may be as obscure as Chinese to you (I'm assuming you don't speak Chinese here, okay). Music is a form of communication? Sometimes ... not always though. I mean hippies chanting "all we are saying is give peace a chance" most definitely have a message to "communicate" ... but I don't really think Wagner was trying to "communicate" a point (although debatable, as his music was inspired by Schopenhauer - thus arguably "communicating" the will). More importantly, how do you define "communication"? It seems you put a lot of weight on meaning and content. But a definition can't be all encompassing - there will be something exceeding this definition (by definition). To exclude what exceeds this definition is facism. Of course, it works the otherway as well - if music/language is defines as pure non-communication. viva le différance! so .. analysing is cool I guess (and depends on matter of degree).. but an attempt to totally reduce music imo hides some of this mysticism about music. |
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good to see ya k dallas....... yea......i mean i think analyzing is OK to a certain degree (esp classical music) however i've just seen some songs talked to DEATH on the MB and it just gets ummm dare i say boring.....ehhheh i like to FEEL music....body and BRAIN! i don't make music....so the techie stuff doesn't really interest me....i'm glad because unlike some people on this MB i think richards piano work is AMAZING.....anyone who disagree's will be killed by the 'thought NINJA' so beware.....ehhehheh =0) |
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But a definition can't be all encompassing - there will be something exceeding this definition (by definition). To exclude what exceeds this definition is facism. You're talking crazy talk. Something that exceeds a definition is by definition part of another definition. What you're describing as fascism is more accurately called clarity. |
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Yo LeC: :) Tend to agree there .. i mean by labelling music by artist/album/genre is arguably analysing .. but again .. all a matter of degree. Do you paint by any chance? That might account for this double standard? :) fleetM: exactly - to be ordered to speak clear and concise is this very call of facism .. analogous if you like to squarepusher being told to "make more sense" in his breakbeat work!!! |
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ehhehe i have an ART degree.....and i do paint, sculpt, draw etc......and yes that may be the reason for the DOUBLE standard. =0) smartypants i like how fleet has multiplied.....he's a MICE now.....plural....tee hee |
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HAHA, every coherent word we speak births a jackbooted thug carrying out counterrevolutionary beatings against the proletariat! |
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Ahh.. well there you go. That "do you make music" poll might account for this over-analysing? Could just be (losely) incompatible vocabularies being used - quoting jandso what can looks like people over-analysing stuff is really just using it a reference point; it something we all share so it's handy, kinda like a shared language. The one says - "oh that's really nice, makes me all warm n fuzzy inside" .. the other sais, "that's some mean ring mod on the vox, and those granulated drums really kick." |
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fleetmice: if you want to put it that way .. tho i don't think i'd be "fighting" for a revolution - just a right for existence (co-existence)? dunno - it seems if you were to totally reduce music, it would ammount to a contradiction - which is perfectly fine by me. :) *puts on some pretty music* |
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Package, consume and recycle. Rhythms, melodies and beats. Music for the masses. Masses for the music. Ever-changing; money, records and hands. Many slaves to the industries, yet a few remain free... Post-Modern Weeze * |
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Amen ... Music has no message, it is but a simularcum! |
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As the Church of the SubGenius used to put it, "science does not remove the terror of the Gods". I don't think it's possible to "reduce" anything. Understanding and clarification embiggens the spirit. |
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something along those lines yeah - didn't mean to come across so preachy and all that .. but you get that with Derrida :) "Terror of the gods"? dunno bout that though - it seems to me like an inescapable delusion - (hence its not a delusion) - that might be the terror? |
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What I think it means is that no amount of learning and knowledge can remove the stark acid-etched terror that is the mystery of existence, the abyss we all scuttle over one another like frightened roaches to avoid gazing into. |
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v. true that. The "problem of presence" (/existence). The abyss of death (/suicide) is an understandable taboo - no words can express the terror and the hypocrisy these words yield. :) |
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well .. maybe not literal terror - its an unknown terror [not that that makes any more sense] haha. so back to anal-y-sing. |
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Nono. What I mean is that totality is incomprehensible and purposeless and that can be frightening when confronted. Just ask God why he's here. If he knows then he isn't God, and if he doesn't then He's just as baffled as we are. So knowledge can never be a worthy enemy of mystery. It will always fail so we don't have to fear it as a kind of fascism. |
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Music is so great beacause it affects you at a level of emotion that nothing else can touch. No words or pictures... just sound producing emotion. Thats what its all about. If your a musician then your trained to listen to certain things (chords, syncopation, harmony), but other then that its just about enjoying it. And I perfer that to analyzing any day. Music is mean to be listened to... and it should stand on its own. Some music is meant to express certain things like political, social, envioromental issues. I could understand where those would want to be analyzed. Some music is there just to listen to, and spark emotion. I think talking about something so much can really be little and ruin music. Thats why I dont really like to critique other peoples tracks and tear them apart ... no music maker wants to hear someone else tell them how to write their track.... you know? I see it allot at WATMM and it really pisses me off to no end. ... I dont know.. I guess what I am trying to say is that you dont have to be a music major or an intellectual person to apprieciate good music (or know good music when you hear it) and talking hours and hours on end about it kinda takes the fun out of it. |
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well said, mickey =) |
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fleetmice: "Nono. What I mean is that totality is incomprehensible and purposeless and that can be frightening when confronted. Just ask God why he's here. If he knows then he isn't God, and if he doesn't then He's just as baffled as we are. So knowledge can never be a worthy enemy of mystery. It will always fail so we don't have to fear it as a kind of fascism. " I tend to agree about the totality thing ... "language is the house of being" .. constructs a false image (or its false because it is an image). The prison house of language is not a prison. However, within, or in language, there can still be facism. To avoid it completely probably leads to relativism .. (and that in itself can be considered a form of facism. There must be an escape from this facism, otherwise it becomes a concept void of meaning). facism is being compelled to speak a certain way - eg. sensical/clear, seething soaring, rising roaring. |
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you are anaylizing how you anaylize music. clearly you like to analize |
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... and listen to music :) |
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do we over analyse blatantecho relationship??? :) |
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Mostly I just listen and daydream or dance |
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do we over analyse this shithole called message board????? and its shithead members??? ☻_☻ |
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The hell... :o |
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There must be an escape from this facism, otherwise it becomes a concept void of meaning). facism is being compelled to speak a certain way - eg. sensical/clear, seething soaring, rising roaring. We must go forwards, not downwards; upwards, not backwards, and always twirling twirling twirling towards freedom. |
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We must go forwards, not downwards; upwards, not backwards, and always twirling twirling twirling towards freedom. true, esp. the "always twirling twirling twirling" part .. emphasis on the verbs ... freedom isn't a statitic state ... or something. |
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wAIT A SECOND HERE. wHO'S HAVING WHO ON AGAIN?!@ aHAHAHAHA |
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all in all tho, music is feck'n great. |
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analyzing, seperating into parts and seeing how these parts interrelate, is the main reason music is interesting perhaps. |
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dunno fleetmice: you tell me :) hehehe |
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teehee |
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I think i'm going to go looking for a face ... mwm: dunno .. i think there's a lot of things we do with music - maybe. |
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I think i'm going to go looking for a face ... uh oh That's what Ed Gein said |
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who's ed gein ? |
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yeah. That's probably my favorite part. When listening to something like antichrist superstar or eyes of stanley pain, analyzing the parts isn't as interesting as the entire theme expressed (probably only because it contains meaningful sounds: language.. growls and stuff are meaningful too... stuff like percussion hits are usually meant to be interpreted as their relationship to eachother into a pattern.) |
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people always forget about the silent gaps ); |
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It's harder to work with silent gaps to make patterns because if you have a solid stream of tone, then compose with silent gaps... if any two gaps land on top of eachother, you'll only percieve them as one, whereas you can play a cymbol and a drum hit at the same time (unless you have gaps of various sizes and scales... still the larger ones will cover up the smaller ones.) |
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