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I wake up to "god" or something of the sort most everyday of my life. Most organized religion seems to revolve around faith that god exists where as my personal religion is simply direct experience with the divine. Worship of the "God out there in the heavens" detracts from realizing the very experience that sparks all relgion to begin. It's quite sad. |
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very well said jupitah! |
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"For it is written, 'As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.'" Romans 14:11 see, he did say it ! |
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Thnx zzligg. I must say though that much of my family is Christian and they do not ram their religion down people's throat. I don't agree with them supporting the church and excepting the bible as the final word, but i love them and if you met them I couldn't imagine you'd hate them. The type of person you describe is not in any way exclusive to christianity. They can be found in all relgions, including science. Science is a tool, but many hold it as religion, as if it answers the questions that religions try to answer. Keyfumbler, do you really believe that through science all questions can be answered? |
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jupitah... i actually said that human science may not actually be able to answer all our questions because our questions will always go beyond human science. Modern quantum physics recognises this as an inherent trait in science...... there are some things beyond our grasp but what is not beyond our grasp is human psychology, mob-mentality, need for security, economics.. the things that create god theories For me, art, music and literature feed my soul, my human spirit... NOT bollox religion. |
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i think the religion is a shit load of bullshit... maybe there is a god, or mighty being, not human... can't be human.. we'll see won't we, be patient, unless suicide is your thing.... |
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Everyone is agnostic, but wont admit it. there is no way to prove one way or another wether god exists. some people have a lot of faith in god. but even if you could prove there is a god others would still not worship him/her/it. everyone would want to know who's god exists: christians god, allah, chrishna. what the true faith is, he could just be god and they are all right. If you could prove there isnt a god people would still worship god anyway, fantatics. Organized Religion has cause a lot of conflict and in my opinion has done more harm than good in the world, the middle east, gaza strip, how many people have died in the name of their religion because they are in conflict with another religion. Hey differences and different beliefs are great dont kill each other over diversity, because you have to be right. I also believe religion is a crutch for people who fear death, its comforting to them to know they are going to heaven when they die, most dont realise they are standing on a crutch. |
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suicide to test the god theory? hmmmm.... nope! |
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faith is the biggest bullshit answer to the whole thing too. "But i have faith and i am happy because of it" a 80 year old man could have faith that his marriage was the most amazing thing ever and he dies on his deathbed satisfied, with his wife teary-eyed but satisfied too. But what if after he is dead, his entire family find out his wife actually cheated on him for 50 years with lots of men? and the husband never knew? His faith turns to bullshit to everybody left behind. It is an empty emotion now and made devoid by the truth. People use their "faith" to get through hard times, but i say, use your common human fucking decency and sence of self respect to get you through......... |
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I did admit that. until the time that the existance of a god is proven, I live my life with the idea that god does not exist. |
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thats exactly how i feel, word for word thanks for saying that now i don't have to bother typing it :) |
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i used to be athiest until i woke up and smelled the coffee as i said yesterday, i believe that athiesm and religion have a lot in common, & they are both as naiive as one another |
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i think theres one but the same for everyone we just cant realise, its too vast |
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i was raised in a very christian way... to church every sunday and all that. But as i became older and started to think more about it... christianity seemed to make less and less sense to me. "I think that the human mind cannot grasp the fact that when we die we just die !" I think this says it very well. There have always been questions to complex for people to anwser... so in the end they invented religions to help them understand the world around them. But just from reading the bible you've got to see how much it all sounds like a bunch of fairytales. I remember there's this one story in it where a boy tries to fool his blind old father because he wants to receive his older brother's blessings or something like that? Anyway... he ties the skin of a goat around his arms... and when his father then feels his arms he thinks he's his older brother ;-) Now come on! Surely there are some hairy men... but can you imagine a man with such hairy arms they feel like goatskin?! And the bible is full of stories like this... unrealistic, ancient myths. How come no such miracles (raining frogs, oceans splitting, people coming back from the dead) happened anymore after the bible was finished? |
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What also puzzled me... i was born in the netherlands... with christian parents and therefor i have to believe in God. But what if i would have been born in india? Then my parents would have told me God didn't exist and I should believe in Buddha. If i would have been born in Marocco, my parents would have been telling me about mohammed. So many religions... and they all think they're the only true one! It's thought like these that led me to the conclusion all religions were probably just invented by mankind. That's not to say there isn't some sort of a higher being though. Atheists believe the universe was created out of the big bang, and life on earth develloped pretty much by accident. But just look around you at the world... it's hard to imagine all that was created by accident! The chance of that happening is about as big as when you give a monkey a pen and some paper, and just by scribbling it accidently writes a complete dictionary ;-) There must be "something"... i think anyway. But it probably has nothing to do with any kind of organized religion |
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I always find your posts very interesting to read, surrounded! This entire thread is quite an interesting one though.. from what I can tell, it looks like I am the only Christian person here! Call me a retard, uncool, naive, whatever.. but I believe it. However, I'd have to say that most of the attacks present on this board don't exactly apply, to me anyway. As for using religion as a crutch for insecurity, nothing could be further from the truth. I was raised Christian, and that's obviously a large part of my loyalties.. but that doesn't mean I haven't questioned it. Religion is anything but a crutch, it doesn't make my life easier, it doesn't make me sure of salvation. I am as close to an agnostic as you can get within Christianity's limits. Christianity is negatively stereotyped, and to a large extent rightfully so. I'll admit it, many professing 'Christians' are obnoxious and self-assured.. heck, I wouldn't want to spend time with them either. Unfortunately, these are the ones we hear about. Christianity is made out to be a religion of self-fulfillment. people convert, so it is thought, to give their lives meaning and hope for the hereafter. But if you examine the scriptures, when Christ was asked what the first and greatest commandment was, he replied 'Love the Lord your God...etc' and then he said 'the second is like it, Love your neighbor as yourself'. Christ himself said it. It's a lifestyle of other-centeredness. It's about self-secrifice and in turn, the bettering of humanity. As for them trying to make converts, they should not shove theology down people's throats like this board and even myself have encountered, but find other people who also want to adopt this philanthropist lifestyle. By loving others, you are loving God.. that's what Christianity is getting at, or should be anyway. I fail alot, as do most Christians, and that's why they seem hypocritical manytimes. On the whole however, as this Christ-following attitude is gradually adopted, they become genuin |
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genuinely better people. That's the idea. As for the lack of present-day miracles, Christ WAS the Son of God.. and the others were Old Testament accounts when the God-man relationship was different... It still rains frogs occasioanlly though, read Ripley's :D |
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god is angry to this thread. |
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I think that because many people believe in god he exists in a way. It has shaped our culture in all kinds of ways. God exists as a symbol for many things that we would normally think would be impossible such as life after death, going to heaven, etc. It comforts people and stimulates people. I think that something that does all this can not be called nothing. It's a real phenomena that's closely related to human nature. |
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How shall we fuck off o lord ? Life of brian/ |
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god died didn' he? |
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" god is dead and no one cares" if you look back in time you'll see that religion has caused the largest amounts of death because of holy wars\religious conflicts. religion is supposed to help people not cause conflict, people do the opposite of what theyre so called religions teach not to do. |
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KEYFUMBLER: My point was that citing scientific information is useless in arguing against the existence of a god. If you believe in physics, which I do, then you believe that matter/energy behaves according to specific laws and does not compromise. Yet this implies that we free will is an illusion and so is your consiousness. Old paradox here. Do you think you are not actually conscious? Is that possible, to "think you are not conscious"? My point is here that even given a hypothetical infinite capacity for scientific understanding, science will never explain reality on it's own. At the very core of science is the principal of utilizing the simplest explanation that works and so there will always be more to reality than science deals with. It is this "more to reality" that spawned religion. It was not "built by man." It simply evolved as natural reaction to the wonder of reality. Most of us are so busy in the modern world with work and play that we forget that the experience you are having this moment ia an ABSOLUTE MYSTERY. I don't know if God exists, partly because of the definitions, but I know that underlying reality is something beyond comprehension, something that can only be felt and accepted as beyond logical reasoning. It seems to be the job of organized religion today to answer away the mystery with dogma so that we don't have to face and experience the mystery first hand, but it isn't so for everyone who dedicates part of their time to the unknown. I believe that this direct experience is very humbling and grounding and I wish more people would tap in. |
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"The world becomes fable, the world as such is only a fable. A fable is something which is told, having no existence outside the tale. The world is something which is told, an event which is narrated; it is therefore an interpretation. Religion, art, science, history are so many diverse interpretations of the world, or rather, so many variants of the fable." - Nietzsche |
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hahahahah god ... ahahahah ... sure buddy.... if you cant explain something just use the god excuse.... |
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should really turn this into a science bashing thread ... |
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korben: you can only bash it by replacing it by another fable .. |
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neetta: "god is angry to this thread" god is not angry at this thread - you are. This post is meant to be a tad provokative to elucidate the point. ? mebe |
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science is logical.. religion is purely theortical.. simple as that.... why would i beleive something a complete stranger says when it completely contradicts what i can see with my own eyes ? |
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"science is logical.. religion is purely theortical.. simple as that.... why would i beleive something a complete stranger says when it completely contradicts what i can see with my own eyes ?" that's exactly the point ... you're just as blind to science as the very people you're "bashing" are. God seems "illogical" to you, but who defines what logic is? - its perfectly arbitrary .. besides, logic has some pretty big holes as well .. where does the principle of non-contradiction and bivalence (something is either true or false) come from? it essentially relies on intuition at the end of the day, and isn't that in a crude sense what faith is? It just seems in this day and age, people are more inclined to think logic is "the truth" or whatever ... religion/god may not make sense to you, but do you not think it makes sense to the people that believe in some way that is similar just to you're conviction that science is "logical"??? |
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don't take it too personally, i just like playing devils advocate. science is theoretical. |
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well put |
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well...you can read my post on this subject here--> http://xltronic.com/mb/topic.php3?topic=9952&start=125&seek wrd=religion#00136134 |
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NO... not well put... idiotically put.... by science i dont just mean formulas and definitions... by science i meant the realy world and universe not an arbitrary world that relys on "faith" and "hope".... why do you need "faith" and "hope" when you have life and sence ?.... whats logical is what you can see smell hear and or touch, thats logic not a fable created a long time ago about goules and deamons and gods and magical places in the sky where these stroys take place.... religion doesn't make sense to people who believe it... that just think it makes sense cause someone told them too... i dont want to continue this idiotic discussion... if you want to spend your life a looser hoping that you will get a second chance at making it better than got for it... but i am not... i am alive and i will try to live omy life to its fullest and not plan on having fun when i am dead. |
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i agree that science is mostly theoretical,.. people have found stuff out,.. have "proven" stuff to be correct,.. gotten the whole wold to beleive so,.. and the turn around 10 years later and say, "sorry,.. we just took the facts the wrong way, it is all in fact completely different to what we originally thought" WTF?!! findings based of assumptions |
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i wasn't taking about theiretical science... just science in general... the science you learn on your own without outside input... and you are totaly contradicting yourself... you say you dont believe in assumptions when "faith" is just and assumption ! |
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ermm,.. read my earler post's I don't beleive in any of that religion bullshit |
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Godel proved that there is no true proof for anything. There are truisms that exist outside of perseption. Personally, as a metaphysical bookie, I'd say it's safer to beleive in God and be wrong than it is to believe there is no God and be wrong...And we all tend to be wrong more often than right on these iffy things. I'm skeptical by nature, I experience what I experience. I listen to people. I watch things and notice what happens. I also believe in, not so much a Higher Power, but a higher level personal responsibilty. Labeling things is very dangerous and when people try to corral the masses with Fear, Labels are the most convenient carrier. Have you seen God? Have you seen an Nuclear detonation? Have you seen Death? Have you seen an atom? God is a Bomb. Philosophy is a Fuse. |
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yes i have seen a bomb.. i have made a bomb before.... "safer to believe in god" ... you would reather waste you life and feel a false sense of safety then live your life and not worrie about "god" or any other creature created in books |
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There is no good. All the shit about the bible,god,hell and that stuff were only about old versions of law & order.. |
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godgod |
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there is a god. He is just the scientist that created this world in his lab. We are just tiny mikroscopic humans in his eyes. He experiments on us by giving us plauqes, cancer and other decieses to see how we react. the world is floating around in one big lab |
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You're life is a product, made by someone stupid. |
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switch: "smoke a joint, smoke a joint, smoke a joint ..." NOT theoretical science, but general science? thanx |
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oh .. and if you want to call religion a delusion, well then so is realism. |
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"thank you for your attention - bye!" |
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god left messages on my answering machine but he had the wrong number. |
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science could be good unhappily it turns real bad and no more nature around... |
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Why thank you very much! :-) I thought your post raised some interesting points aswell. I would never call anyone stupid for believing in god, in a way i'm almost jealous of the people that have faith. Because I'm left with lots of questions and a huge fear of death... but still i find it impossible to believe in god... it just doesn't make sense to me. When I read the bible it doesn't anwser any of my questions, it just raises more questions for me. But i would have to agree the bible doesn't preach hate. It is true religion has caused terrible things, much suffering and wars... and i don't really understand it. Christianity is indeed a religion of love... and from what i'm told, most other religions are too. The founders of all modern religions must have had good intentions... (if everyone lived by the ten commandments, the world would be a much better place). it's stupid people taking things too seriously that made it all go horribly wrong. But still i think the bible is mostly based on ancient myths. I imagine there must have been some guy named Moses who led a large group of people through the dessert. And as the story was passed on from generation to generation... people probably exagerated it a little bit everytime. In reality they might have waded through some shallow water... but by the time the story was told to the grand-grand-grandchildren of the people who experienced it themselves, it had already evolved into: "and moses splitted the ocean apart so that we might walk through". |
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I've also had some quite interesting conversations with jehova's witnesses myself. When I said to them I found it hard to believe the world was created in just six days... when infact we've already found proof it must have taken longer. And then they said I took the bible to litteraly ;-) Each "day" was infact a period of 1000 years... now come on... why would the bible say "1 day" when infact it meant "a thousand years"? What's also interesting (read this once somewhere... can't really remember where)... that if you add up all those biblical stories... the age of people and how long they lived etc... you can calculate that according to the bible, the world was created about 6000 years ago. But we now have archeological PROOF of things that are much older than that (but the jehova's witnesses told me that the method for determening the age of old object was very unreliable :-p). But well... there's really no point in trying to prove the bible can't be true. I think it's a wonderful thing if people can have faith in a religion and believe in it... but it just doesn't work so easily for me :-) |
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