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 (nobody)...and 304 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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no. the emotion is in the one who hears, who interprets the sound. one can WANT to communicate through sound, i.e. convey an emotion, but sounds do not have emotion communicated through them inherently. |
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thats conditioned behaviour. |
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alright alright.. but the point was.. you think there cannot be similar music to confield made in the 60s or 70s because that person would miss the influence of hip-hop.. even then, a person in that time could make music thats similar. |
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Ive been in "IDM" topics before and people never come to a conclusion , they go on forever. This is not a bad thing because it is good to talk.but i feel that as human beings we have become obsessed with putting things in little pigeon holes that are all named correctly. in the case of electric music it is much harder to put items in little boxes because of there complexety . today electronic music is expanding so fast that it is almost immpossable to keep up with so i say keep it simple and fun ,which is what it should be . warpphex out. |
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if it's still there you should read the braindance "definition" on rephlex.com... |
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i agree. Similar. but there's still no way primitive technology can compare, other than similar, to today's, my point was that today's technology allows things that go a quantum leap ahead in certain aspects which alot of today's electronica exemplifies strongly. |
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yes i pluralized humans. I dont see your point? there would HAVE to be multiple people to perform that song. What im saying, is that a human cannot replicate the mathmatical accuaracy of the rhythem that a machine can. (that is not a sample of a real bouncing ball... no bouncing ball would bounce into a drill sound. it would stop before then) the characteristic of the song is the rigidness of the rythem. idm iisnt music by my defination? where did you get that from? and thats what im saying, the sounds have more predicedent, in this type of music, then a melody or even a rythem (although rhythem is still a big factor in alot of it, but no ambient electronic music goes against that) as for tone... define tone? musical tones, or tone as in feeling? ok, my friends here to go eat dinner. ill be back in a bit. please dont write 40 posts while im gone, its a real bitch to have to respond to a load of differnt posts all at once |
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so to say that everything in the last decade has been done before is ridiculous from this standpoint. |
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warphex is right, idm is almost always meant to be fun, not something to be analyzed zeus: you don't think multiple people could replicate the rhythm of that track? why is that so, when a troop of people can perform music for clapping by steve reich? i can understand if you had narrowed it down to a single person, but a limitless # of people? anyway, who cares if it's "mathematically accurate"? i already said that an idm track is playable on other instruments in other styles, no matter how central its rhythm is to the music. there are no rules for performing other people's songs. i'm beginning to lose track of this argument. tones as in feeling. |
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what is sad is that more than ten years ago, when the genre 'began' to explode, people who made it where desperatly trying to convince people to focus on the music and to not try to categorize it, aphex never 'seriously' said is music was experimental (maybe he said it was ahead of it's time...) he never said it was that, or this.... so now everyone is trying to do what he was trying to avoid... |
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it makes sense though that we spend so much time deconstructing music that means a lot to us, but we should also step back and realize that the music is there for us to enjoy, not make a big fuss over |
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sound doesn't inherently communicate, but with a brain it has the capacity. so a wider range of sounds creates a wider range of possible communications. |
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analize it, it's cool and normal but don't try to put it in a category, etc... that was my point i'm really not against deconstructing music and all |
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YOU associate something (emotions,...) with the sounds and the thing with the playing certain keys to sound 'sad' is purely associated with your (musical)education |
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I agree, it hasn't been technically, but maybe it has been done structurally (which I don't know, I won't say that).. |
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yes. exactly the reason why its extremely hard to imply an emotion with a sound. |
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"there are no rules for performing other people's songs." exactly. as I've said like 3 times now, each different orchestration makes for a new version. |
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Thats hit it on the head e-man ! your dead right . aphex doesnt want a main stream following , he said himself in an artical that i read. He is making music that is ment to be free of any conections to anything , total freedom, one of a kind . his music has no set formula i think he just wants his art to stand on its own. |
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of course there are no rules when performing other peoples music what im talking about is the original genre. all the talk of others redoing it, thats just a for instance. What im getting at, is that this genre, alone, its main characteristic is sound oppossed to "harmony". the genre focuses on a certain feeling, and a certain approach to it. So, if a song is made on computors, but the core focus isnt the sounds or production, then its not IDM. It could be techo, it could be cheesy house music whatever. Something more standard. But IDM, in my eyes, is more the art of sound then the art of harmony. The emotions are meant to be shown through uses of sounds that cannont be generated acoustically. And its not soo focused on mood developed by harmonies, although plenty of it has it. Take away the melodies, its still IDM. take away the sounds/effects used, its no longer IDM. thats ALL im saying. AND YES I KNOW THAT SOUND AND MUSIC ITSELF ISNT AN EMOTION, BUT AN INTERPRETATION FROM THE LISTENERS BRAIN. christ. alls im saying, is that there are emplied feelings in a sound, because society has associatted them, or whatever... but the main point is that you dont need harmonies to imply emotion. and i beleive that IDM has more implied emotions through sound/sound effects, then it has emotion implied with Harmony |
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i still disagree that idm's "main characteristic is sound" and i think it's very dismissive to say the "genre focuses on a certain feeling, and a certain approach to it." i also disagree on your definition of IDM, although i've never been satisfied with anyone's definition of it. that said, i can't think of too much IDM that puts rhythm, melody, and tone (feeling), BENEATH the sound of it. what about rdj and boc's whole discographies for instance? what's the point of this rare idm that puts form completely over function? |
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"What im getting at, is that this genre, alone, its main characteristic is sound oppossed to "harmony"" who are you to say that? have you created this "genre"? anyway for me the point is there is no genre... there is music that resembles other music, but it comes mainly from the point of view from wich you judge it (hope it makes sense...) i'm not attacking you, but appart from some sort of music with strong rules you have to follow, any given song/track is his own genre and purpose... |
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*BREAKS DOWN AND GOES INSANE* *beats head on wall* ok, by certain feeling and approach, im not meaning emotionally. Im talking stylistically. And like i said TONE is NOT Benethe the sound. the sound is what gives it the tone ok. imagein either the RDJ album, or BoCs albums. if they were originally made with acoustic instruments. IT WOULDNT BE IDM. thats what im saying. Because IDM focuses on the electronic sounds. and i never said form is over function |
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music is subjective Eman. this is my opinion and interpretation of it. im allowed to voice my opinion. perhaps i should be more clear and put "imo" at the beggining of every sentence? |
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you cannot find a definition of idm cos idm doesn't really exist apart in some people's mind, people who thus have there own way of defining it... it's the purpose of it , to me at least, you can make it whatever you want it to be(the music), it becomes a personal thing, and that's where the sounds and techniques have their importance, you won't react to a sound as me or tits ans thus "idm" exist only in your/my/his mind fuck it's been too long i don't expresss myself in english, i hope you understand me well |
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didn't want to follow tits post... |
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peace zeus =) all i say is THERE IS NO NAME TO THE MUSIC WE LISTEN AND THAT BRINGS US TO THIS BOARD... it's just music made by artists who are more or less connected |
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YES I KNOW THATS WHAT YOU MEANT!! here, a hanky.. *hands Zeus a hanky* I still think its your assumption that music has an implied emotion. that would mean the artist would know what the implied emotion is - I think most of them wouldn't know, really. |
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AH! rephlex.com was down for me but now i can give you the definition of braindance wich goes well in this topic braindance is the music that has always existed but was not discovered until 1991 - by us! braindance is for everyone... rephlex bods aren't the only braindance producers! help us share the joy of braindance because it's more fun than other pigeon-holes. braindance is the genre that encompasses the best elements of all genres, e.g. traditional, classical, electronic music, industrial, ambient, hip hop, electro, house, techno, soul, breakbeat, hardcore, ragga, garage, drum and bass, folk etc |
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i do think there is an implied emotion. its probably a result of society, or whatever... but it IS there this is why in a film score, when someone dies you get a song in minor key. so its "sadder" or when there is a victory, its in major key, because its brighter. and tiumphent sounding. Im not making this up. Im just saying, people usually have a set way of listening to things. *takes the hanky* |
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mm.. ofcourse you can voice your opinion, and ofcourse you don't have to say imo at the beginning of each sentence, but the way you formulated your opinions in previous posts seems to imply that you're saying something thats generally true about "idm" or whatever. |
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AHA! then calling it "braindance" is also pidgeonholing!!!! |
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that's allright, but stop trying to find a definition to a genre that don't exist, please =) |
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that's probably why they say it's a funnier pigeonhole ! nice try. ;-) |
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I just assume people would take my words as opinions. Even if i did state it as fact, its still just my opinion from your point of view. |
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as I've said earlier, those are conditioned responses. imo, because you are aware of this, you can handle this effect. want some more hankies? ;) |
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oh well.. I tried.. :) |
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where is amonbrune? one post for him in a nearly 200 post topic started by him... this guy is loosing points |
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to elaborate (why not!?), when I hear "sad" music in films, it doesn't make me feel sad, I think: "oh god, music thats overtly trying to make me feel sad.." |
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yeah thats str- OH GOD! I'm in the over 3000 point stratosphere now! |
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yes they are conditioned responses. And yes if someone is aware of it, then they can handle it differently. but my assumptian, is that the general population are conditioned in this way... hence why people tend to use things that have been conditioned to make such emotional responses. Someone goes "i want this to be sad" so they write a peice that is generally accepted by people as sad (a conditioned response) but heres a question.... how did it get associated with it in the first place? this has been goin on for hundreds of years. Church services back in midevil times, where done in major keys, while requims and and funeral was done in minor key. where did it all begin? i dont know. |
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yeah, me too i got that effect, it only works when i'm sad with another thing(the film) when i try to explain that to people they say i'm a non-conformist... i guess it all came from that in the first place |
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well done my friend thats alot of points! |
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ok. so you have overcome the conditioning but at least you are recognizing that music can be used to convey emotions. "its overtly trying to make me feel sad" |
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when i want to write a sad piece, i don't think it should be viewed as sad by other, cos they wouldn't understand what made me sad and what makes me sad in it off course if i want them to think it's sad sounding... i think rdj OVERuse that, making song to make you sad or angry or irritated one that always work well for me is funnylittleman, i can't stand that song, not that i don't like it but it's making nervous and irritated... so i skip it, |
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...maning *me* nervous... |
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*_* it's too late for me anyway i must go to sleep now make it pass over 200 with quality post titsworth, qrter, zeus and warphex would you? =) good night all |
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when i write sad music, I write what i think is sad as well. but hey, maybe and probabbly im just conditioned to think its sad. i dont really care. we are ALL conditioned in one way or another with many aspects of life. im not gonna apologize for thinking that a minor key sounds sad. |
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and, also... i feel exactly the same way you do about funny little man. im being serious. there IS some commonalities in the way we percieve things, even if we realize it or not. it affects me just like it does you. is that good? i dont know. is it bad? no. |
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I know i havn't been involved in this conversation. It WAS supposed to be a joke. Im quite surprised at how serious this turned out and im very thankful. Thank you everyone for participating in one of the best musical arguments ive seen on here. My two bits so far are kinda with zeus because i see his points...and i see titsworth's points. Ive always considered this type of music, IDM, as experimental. I see minimalism experimental. If a rock band chose a different guitar pedal and used that instead of their old one for their new cd that would NOT make that cd experimental. Experimental means CHANGING the whole sound. If that same rock band forgot about singing and focused on weird reverb guitar sounds and minimal brush drumming and air going through pipes THAT cd now WOULD be experimental. But since they wouldn't be allowed that (their laybel would definatly not allow that unless it were a layble that handled avant garde) they wouldn't do it. they'd tick off all their fans. Avant Garde is experimental. No one here has used those words yet. Avant garde BRINGS out the experimental. Its experimenting with sounds like no other person has. It means doing things in ways that would be considered unorthodox. Having 13 trumpets each choose a different note somewhat related to eachother and have them all play that for 8 minutes and then switch to another note for 3 would be more experimental than even Radiohead going to electronics with Amnesiac. You have to have avant garde in there really.... anyone get this? |
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alright man, goodnight! dont dream about killing me! |
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