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Who here has read the old testament in the bible?

offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:13 [#02622765]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

Noah, Abraham, Moses, king David, king Solomon, Daniel, the

Do you think it's all made up or is it based on true people
who lived years ago and their relationship with the divine

How can someone who knows the ins and outs of Marxist
theories and reads hundreds of books in detail not know the
contents of these books?

How come Israel exists today if God isn't real?

Deep topic I know


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 21:31 [#02622769]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

I haven't read it myself. But I can't see that reading it
would instill any kind of faith, either.

I think there's a possibility the Old Testament had it all
right. Also a possibility that Mohamed was a real prophet,
or Jesus. Maybe Hinduism or Buddism got it on the mark.
Pretty much anything but Scientology, fuck that shit.

I'm comfortable saying "I don't know and will never know,"
but a lot of people arent. In your case you seem to have a
strong faith. I don't really understand faith, but it
doesn't bother me.

I wonder where it comes from though, this faith. Not just
with you, but with everybody who displays it. Usually it's
just parents that tried to instill you with their values,
combined with some fear of eternal damnation.

Anyway I've had a lot of open and closed eye psychedelic
visuals that are eastern-flavored, elephants are almost
always in the mix. Six armed goddesses sitting indian style.
If I'm just going off what I've *actually* experienced,
that'd probably be my top pick.



offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:34 [#02622770]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

How come Israel exists today if God isn't real?


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 21:36 [#02622771]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

I'm just answering you with my honest take and not pooping
on ya.

My take is that Isreal is a just a plot of earth,
constructed by geo-physics (tectonic plates and the likes),
on a planet that's composed of matter forged in exploded
Stardust, made from stars that congealed massive amounts of
hydrogen and helium, which was forged in the big bang.

To be, how come Isreal exists is a stupid question. WHY is
there hydrogen and helium instead, instead of a void, is a
real question.


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:36 [#02622772]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

I heard God's voice in a dream a few times


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 21:37 [#02622773]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict | Followup to umbroman3: #02622772

if it was me I'd really listen to it and try and apply it


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:40 [#02622774]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

Which hitchens brother are you?

Christopher hitchens, supports Israel but is an atheist
Peter hitchens, paleoconservative, believes in God


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 21:41 [#02622775]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

I haven't read either one I think I'm just a garden variety
agnostic, who tends a bit nihilist.

Wheres your new acid music bro I havent heard your stuff in


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 21:42 [#02622776]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

tends? trends?

one of those has to be right there.


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:42 [#02622777]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:43 [#02622778]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

Sold my 303


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 21:46 [#02622779]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

to buy more old testaments?


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:46 [#02622780]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

Paid some debt off and bought a ps5


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 21:48 [#02622781]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

I should have stuck with flstudio on a cheap laptop. No need
for all these 10 grand machines


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 22:13 [#02622790]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

Solomon had 600 wives and concubines

There was a law in the bible that said for the king not to
have too many wives

they say biblical israel split into two kingdoms because of


it also says in the books that the descendant of Solomon
would lead the world to peace and prosperity after a
gigantic war


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2022-11-29 22:16 [#02622791]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

I have a King's James Bible on my shelf. My mom (completely
non denominational christian who never really forced the
issue of faith) gave it to me for xmas. Maybe it has the old
testament in it as well.

Also one year for xmas I got Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, from
one of my uncles who correctly ascertained that I was
probably a bit libertarian. I haven't read that either.

Both too preachy, I'm assuming. I think the bible is good to
read for a history lesson tho, if nothing else.


offline marlowe from Antarctica on 2022-11-29 22:28 [#02622793]
Points: 24571 Status: Regular | Followup to umbroman3: #02622765

The Old Testament is a many-translated collection of earlier
stories from multifarious cultures of the Middle East; any
factuality has been diluted beyond relevance and many of the
codes within it are regional.

Marxism doesn't require a knowledge of The Old Testament.

Israel exists because the Europeans felt guilty after the
Holocaust, due to Jewish people being persecuted in most of
Eastern, Central and Western Europe for centuries, and also
because it made a useful outpost in the Middle East.


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 22:32 [#02622794]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

book of daniel(name means God is my judge) is crazy good,
wikipedia says it like this:
He is not a prophet in Judaism, but the rabbis reckoned him
to be the most distinguished member of the Babylonian
diaspora, unsurpassed in piety and good deeds, firm in his
adherence to the Law despite being surrounded by enemies who
sought his ruin, and in the first few centuries CE they
wrote down the many legends that had grown up around his

it doesnt say anywhere but his character indicates he is a
descendent of solomon and david.

wiki also says he's a made up character, which is impossible
because his deeds are what made him famous.

it's weird how some names from the bible became commonly
used by parents today then others dont, you hear of a lot of
daniels and davids but not so much solomon


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-11-29 22:38 [#02622796]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

theres a law for each praiser of God to write a torah
scroll, the king has to write two. thats how you know it's
been passed down since the time of Moses.

marxism, for clever atheists who've never read the most
influential book of all time.

yeah i agree with point 3, hitler's crimes were too much for
anybody sane to be able to comprehend


offline Tony Danza from nuked west on 2022-11-29 22:40 [#02622798]
Points: 3195 Status: Lurker

when the demon is at your door
in the morning it won't be there no more

any major dude will tell you


offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2022-11-30 08:09 [#02622814]
Points: 7309 Status: Regular | Show recordbag




offline ijonspeches from 109P/Swift-Tuttle on 2022-11-30 08:16 [#02622815]
Points: 7309 Status: Regular | Show recordbag

to answer your question:
i dont know, but historians have been digging to find out
what is and whats not, what might etc.. havent read the
whole thing and watched a few dokus.

my personal belief is, that it is a mix, part happened, part
is legend, but largely its metaphor to give us a moral
compass. i said that in school and the teacher in religion
agreed in relief.


offline kei9 from Argentina on 2022-11-30 13:34 [#02622816]
Points: 378 Status: Regular

I havent, but Ive been told the story of job.

one day satan and god were chit chatting when the later
mentions Job, a wealthy pious dude who was always "well
behaved". satan then points out that maybe this job guy was
such a believer because of how blessed by god he was, so he
gambles that he can make job lose his faith. god is like
"bring in on m8", so then satan kills jobs sons and wife,
job loses his wealth, and finally his health; he gets
scabies. but he never loses his faith in god, even when
confronted by his friends.

finally god himself appears before job and "doubles his
former wealth", gives him "new sons" and a "long life", for
all his troubles and for being "such a good boy"

I think this tells a lot about the god in the old testament,
people get killed over his bet with the devil, he does not
give a fuck, then tries to make things right by throwing
money at the problem. hes only concern is our acceptance of
his power, hes willing to gaslight his sons just out of


online big from lsg on 2022-11-30 16:30 [#02622819]
Points: 22529 Status: Lurker | Show recordbag

there's very little jokes in it


offline belb from mmmmmmhhhhzzzz!!! on 2022-11-30 20:30 [#02622821]
Points: 6105 Status: Regular


Three thousand years ago, in the Southwest Asian lands we
now call Israel and Palestine, a group of people worshipped
a complex pantheon of deities, led by a father god called
El. El had 70 children, who were gods in their own right.
One of them was a minor storm deity, known as Yahweh. Yahweh
had a body, a wife, offspring and colleagues. He fought
monsters and mortals. He gorged on food and wine, wrote
books and took walks and naps. But he would become something
far larger and far more abstract: the God of the great
monotheistic religions.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-11-30 22:40 [#02622825]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

i went to a private high school. i had a great history
teacher there one year, and he said, "since this is a
private high school, i'm allowed to put the bible into the
curriculum and i intend to do so." he then went on to
explain that he was actually a mormon, but he was going to
treat the bible as a historical document and leave
faith entirely out of it. he was one of the funniest
teachers i've ever had and that was the first time i'd heard
him mention mormonism at all; i was stunned. but then he was
promptly good on his word -- that the class was supposed to
cover that area of history, and he wove a module on the
bible into all the roman stuff.

so it is strange, that i actually have discovered... because
of that, i've read more of the people than some of the
dullards screaming about jesus. like, catching them on a
technical level, knowing they're wrong... because... i read
that part, alright? but i don't say it. just a quiet giggle

so yes, a little. i had a hilarious mormon who did an
amazing job of not pressing faith onto anyone curate various
sections from it for me, along with the new testament. i
wouldn't go so far as to call myself any sort of export, but
i did get the flavor.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2022-12-02 12:50 [#02622890]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

the UNBELIEVABLY NEW testament


offline welt on 2022-12-02 20:18 [#02622922]
Points: 2032 Status: Regular

I've read the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible in its entirety.
What I find striking is that it is very different from other
religious texts such as the Daodejing, the Bhagavad Gita,
the Dhammapada, the Diamond Sutra, Greek mythology and
philosophy. The "normal" tendency in "higher" forms of
religion seems to be the human desire to harmoniously align
with nature or the supernatural, to become a harmonious part
of the whole, to merge with an anonymous basic divine or
natural force. Whereas the Hebrew Bible, at least it has
been read in this way for centuries/millenia, puts an open
dialogical relationship between God and human beings in the
center. The human being is not to become merely a part of
the whole, of nature or of God, but is always irreducible to
nature, irreducible to God, irreducibly singular. .. And
that, I guess, is true. ... I don't know what the Bible's
status is, but I think its the most impressive religious
text/tradition. Even more impressive than Zen-Buddhism which
in the end, it seems to me, remains stuck in the redemptive
experience of becoming one with the whole. That experience
exists and it is important. But I think the communication
between irreducibly singular non-equals is even better.


offline kei9 from Argentina on 2022-12-02 21:08 [#02622934]
Points: 378 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02622922

I like this analysis and i share that the jewish (and
christian) tradition is all too obsessed with humans. but I
dont see how "the communication
between irreducibly singular non-equals" could be better
than the "experience of becoming one with the whole" as the
first, is in its root, metaphysical raving and the later is
what will happen (or already has happend) to you, whether
you understand it and accept it or not.


offline Tony Danza from nuked west on 2022-12-02 21:37 [#02622937]
Points: 3195 Status: Lurker | Followup to welt: #02622922

I think this accounts for the strong character of naive
realism in Christian-centric cultures, and why people in
them often have an abhorrence of evolution. It's a worldview
that trades in irreducible essences, that doesn't emphasize
one thing flowing into another or the fluidity of history,
of change. This is evident in the morality as well.

Which is not to say that everyone in a Christian-centric
culture is a naive realist, of course.


offline Tony Danza from nuked west on 2022-12-02 23:06 [#02622939]
Points: 3195 Status: Lurker

also goes some way towards explaining why so many of them
have a stick up their ass about trannies and gays imo


offline Cliff Glitchard from DEEP DOWN INSIDE on 2022-12-03 01:41 [#02622940]
Points: 4141 Status: Lurker

Accept Ye in to your heart.


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-12-03 06:09 [#02622941]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

in a vivid dream I said who are you? and I saw a hand
pointing up to the sky (to mean God). then i saw a black
wing, like an angel's wing because he was in the darkness it
was black. then i looked to the right and saw the face of
God himself, or at least a representation of God. it was a
pyramid with an eye inside.

i believe the holocaust happened, that gay and transgender
rights are part of God's plan, the end of slavery is also
part of God's plan. i believe the messiah is real and is
alive today. i believe God is 100% real and has a plan for
the world.

also i believe i will be tortured for my sins of going
against his plan and for a general rudeness towards him. and
my family will be tortured too. i wish it wasnt the case
that torture could happen but it's happening.


offline welt on 2022-12-03 12:50 [#02622942]
Points: 2032 Status: Regular | Followup to kei9: #02622934

Well, I would approach it by contrasting two experiences.
Let’s say you sit down and do a Zen-meditation. You go
inwards. Instead of merely finding your own particular self
inside, your own individual desires, emotions, aims, goals,
you break through this individual self at some point, go
even further inside, as it were, and surprisingly find
yourself as something which is identical with all of being,
with the whole of nature, the whole of the cosmos. All sorts
of stress fall way, a peaceful and blissful state appears.

Then the other experience is encountering another human
being, or even an animal or a plant, or a piece of art, and
experiencing it as a radical split with nature, as a radical
disruption of the whole, as something irreducibly unique,
singular, particular which calls the whole into question,
which is in a way outside “Being” and then responding to
that unique other. That wouldn’t mean to engage in
metaphysical ramblings but to treat for example you, kei9,
as someone who cannot be merely grasped as a part of the
whole but as someone who can stand outside nature, to
respond to your creative freedom which goes beyond the
totality of nature. That experience, I think, is even more
valuable than harmony. Why do I think so? I guess I tend
towards the view that neither you nor I are simply parts of
the whole but singularities which disrupt the whole. …


offline welt on 2022-12-03 12:56 [#02622943]
Points: 2032 Status: Regular | Followup to Tony Danza: #02622937

Yes, I guess there is something to it. The fact that
Christianity soon integrated Greek Platonic philosophy - and
thereby the idea of eternal essences (in the sense of a
specific εἶδος or ἰδέα which makes you into the
specific substance you are) - would perhaps also play a
major role, perhaps even the most important one.


offline Tony Danza from nuked west on 2022-12-03 13:43 [#02622944]
Points: 3195 Status: Lurker | Followup to welt: #02622943

I think so yes. The notion of the eternal forms was
perfectly compatible with "let us make man in our image".
Just needed a persona slapped on it.


offline kei9 from Argentina on 2022-12-12 02:11 [#02623127]
Points: 378 Status: Regular | Followup to welt: #02622942

I think we are both, we are something irreducibly unique
going back to the whole. each trip is unique since every
human is bound to turn up different because of a particular
combination of experiences and genetics. free will has
little agency if any. i cherish my journey but at the same
time i give it the entity of an illusion, something that its
already over


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-12-12 20:32 [#02623188]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

"The most important teaching and tenet of Judaism is that
there is one God, incorporeal and eternal, who wants all
people to do what is just and merciful. All people are
created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with
dignity and respect."


offline umbroman3 from United Kingdom on 2022-12-12 20:37 [#02623189]
Points: 6004 Status: Regular

"Judaism believes that every moment of life is precious and
of infinite value. We do not consider pain or suffering as
mitigating factors that obviate the sanctity or importance
of life. Jews believe in a life after death - the
immortality of the soul and the physical resurrection of the
body at a time in the future."


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