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 Now online (2)big Bremzen ...and 238 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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tip: the red numbers to the right of your location/post time... click the numbers in the post you are replying to, and stuff like that will work itself out. |
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I would also like to have an answer to my question about any implicit meaning or whatever that's supposed to be "behind" any work of art and how you think you're able to grasp it. |
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see..if you don't need to know electronic music more thoroughly, you could as well expand and start writing about rock albums..you don't need to know anything about it to write reviews anyway. |
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as was this one |
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a reply to drunken mastah. i give up. |
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We don't know more about Autechre, we just know what to look for in Autechre. There are hundreds of artists that you don't like that millions of people and that isn't because they are less intelligent than you are. You have no right to say that these people listen to crap music, because they don't. And the comparison between Basement Jaxx/ Autechre was just a comparison between music which was obviously more accessible than the other. This thread is very confusing though. |
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read vice instead. the reviews are better. the guy can sum up a whole album in one paragraph. |
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Barcode, what kind of electronic music do you like (besides basement jaxx, obviously)? It would be nice to know, because right now the image is drawn you haven't got a clue what you're talking about and you're criticising music you're not interested in. |
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I never buy a record on what anyone has to say - hearing is.. er..believing. John Peel could tickle your earlobes with what he had to say, though. |
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I am interested in all sorts of electronic music, otherwise why would I write about electronic music and listen to it constantly? To say I like Basement Jaxx is a misnoma - I liked a Basement Jaxx album - their most recent album was only rated 5.1 or something, does that mean that I now hate them? No. The whole purpose of my contribution to this thread, before it got convaluted, was that the original post is criticising reviewers for having an opinion, an opinion that is based on exactly the same set of principles as their own opinions. So really, they're simply criticising themselves. How can criticising an Autechre album mean I am not interested in it? I was interested enough to listen to it. I was sent it and listened to it, when I could have been biased and thrown it in the trash. It would be silly to only listen to things I think I will like and swerve reviewing things I don't like. An artist might release ten albums I am not keen on, and then put out one that I think is brilliant. How do I know until I've listened to it? I am willing to revise my opinion at any moment. I think the problem with a lot of people here - and people that are glued to web forums in general - is that do not have an open mind. They see any criticism of an artist they happen to like as a personal attack on them?!? They feel as though they need to stick up for the artist, which is preposterous - as if the artist is interested. And people also tend to get stuck into little sub-genres, almost convincing themselves they like everything that's released simply to sustain their interest in it. Thankfully, I don't have that problem - I listen to everything I receive with clean ears - no pre-conceptions. Can you say the same? |
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i havent read any of this thread. but A REVIEW IS AN OPINION.L obviouisly informed opinions are better, but if you like the music what does it matter. its all subjective anyway. yeah if the kind of music you like gets rave reviews all the time yeah suck your own cock, but if it doesnt and that BOTHJERS you then maybe you have shit taste in music or a re a shallow nobby. |
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incompetent reviewers are also intitled to their opionion. i do believe that reviewers and journalist in most fields have the power to mildly influence record sales, but then people who read reviews shouldn't take the reviewers' word and remember that it's unfortunately less and less descriptive of the music and more and more just an opinion by some person. |
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i can't even write, i shouldn't exist here. |
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"I think the problem with a lot of people here - and people that are glued to web forums in general - is that do not have an open mind. They see any criticism of an artist they happen to like as a personal attack on them?!" to be fair, this is quite a sad geeky fanboy site. all the people who post here stand at the back of gigs with their yellow boards of canada t-shirts, not moving much, but maybe nod their head to the fucked up beats and lush melodies. i'm not saying you're right or wrong. well you're right why would the artist care? i don't know. BUT, a fanboy will stick up for them anyway, so what did you expect :P i still havent listened to untitled, i couldnt get past draft 7.30, which was like rice pudding poo. and bassment jaxx are just reeeeeeeeee aieeee bosssa ayee ya yay ya lalalala BASSS lalala Weeeeeee samba wooo BASSS moc-a-moc rleeeee |
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"An artist might release ten albums I am not keen on, and then put out one that I think is brilliant. How do I know until I've listened to it? I am willing to revise my opinion at any moment. " i wasn't that keen on autechre until i heard untilted and i knew their music for a long time. after untilted i started appreciating their other stuff as well. also when you say you questioned if there's something behind their music..what's behind bassement jaxx's music? you either like it or you don't, but it often helps if you know what you're talking about. im happy we got someone with broad taste on board thoug, since we're sort og glued to warp around here.. |
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Barcode, in the first place thanks for having the nervs for coming over here and defending your case. It's not that every reviewer who gives an ae-album a 3 comes here openly to defend his point-of-view. Regarding reviewing music in general, reading your answers I've come to believe that reviewing is something different than just presenting an opinion. A good review, or rather reviewer, should have (and give) a strong sense of the (musical/historical) context the music is placed in. Sure, the reviewer may not like the music. But independent of whether he likes it or not, the music has a certain historical/musical value. A good reviewer should be able to see and describe this value. This is what makes him a reviewer. Not his personal opinion on the music itself. And in the case of Autechre. Well, obviously they play a huge role in this community. Their music has influenced a lot of other musicians. And almost every new album seems like a new direction. They are ahead of the herd. And yes, odds are people won't enjoy it. (which is not the point anyway) And about the pretentiousness of their music. They are anything but. Their music may sound pretentious, but if you had taken the time to read any interviews it should be clear that they're only doing what they like best. Independent of what the world out there may think. Sounds to me like the opposite of pretentiousness. |
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"Thankfully, I don't have that problem - I listen to everything I receive with clean ears - no pre-conceptions. " how is it not a pre-conception that there should be "anything to understand behind their art" or else it is bad? |
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it's good to see a bad review for once, I love the album, but I don't think it'd be good for newcomers, anyone who's a fan of autechre is going to listen to it anyway, so I don't see any harm done. it's a simple and fun album, I don't understand his critisism of ilpacial, I couldn't stop myself dancing to it the first time I heard it, but I love drum solo's etc.. I'm perhaps used to the timings or something, I can't really tell anymore I air drum to that track all the time, doesn't sound unusual to me. |
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If you read the review I am "questioning" whether there is something behind their art, questioning is not a pre-conception. By the way, I have been listening to electronic music for 25 years and have a very expansive knowledge of it. Barcode's reviews are particularly descriptive of the music; as I'm well aware that opinions do not count for much. |
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I like reviews because it's an easy way to know about new releases or new artists without searching on the net, but they don't influence my decision. As for untilted I give it a 7, it disappoints me a bit even if I saw a live show and they're great as usual |
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I'm not fussed particularly what you said about Autechre, I just think your pompous arrogance is hilariously disproportionate to your position as e-zine editor who refers to himself in the third person. |
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Giving Untilted a 3/10 shows a basic lack understanding at the way electronic music is evolving and how Autechre are at the forefront. |
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but it's a step back. reviews are still and opinion. |
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that's not really what I said. I'm still kind of trying to get an answer to the question about whether or not there has to be something behind the art for it to be good, and how you propose you (or anyone) is supposed to be able to grasp this something without it being explicit. I also don't really react to what you said about autechre (I'm not too fond of them myself), I only react to the notion that the judgement of art should somehow have some objective measure based on the something "behind it." |
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It has nothing to do with giving Autechre a bad review. It has to do with giving anyone a bad review, or anyone a review, for that matter. Its an opinion, you say, but why write it in the first place then, if it has no consequence for anyone else? I cannot be completely subjective then? Also, its a lot harder to listen to something without preconceptions when you have read an article telling you that what you are about to hear is trash. |
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I kind of actually don't think reviews are such a bad thing, I just hate the reviews of the kind r40f brilliantly portrayed up top where they don't seem to talk about the music at all, and those are abundant these days. Good reviews are reviews where you don't pretend you've "grasped the meaning" of the art or anything like that, but rather talk about what kind of music it is, what other artists it sounds like (without getting all "oh look at me, I know of artists no-one else knows about (but everyone knows about them anyway)").. wait.. I may just want the discogs entry and some samples, not a review... |
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I hope Barcode uses a dictionary before publishing his reviews, otherwise he would could look unprofessional. Also, I think Barcode described 'contrived' not 'pretentious' earlier: "trying too hard to achieve a certain goal; therefore the music is not naturally/creatively induced." Also, barcode said all music is evolution, but then seems to go on to say that Autechre's music hasn't evolved. "every piece of music an artist creates is an evolution from a previous piece of work - or an evolution of someone else's " and "In our opinion, it hasn't evolved" Also, I think i_x_ten is a knob for trying to represent Xltronic to Barcode the way he did, in an almost fawning manner, quite embarrassing. |
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Exactly, I have no real problem with reviews like these, which is why I only really like good reviews, because they don't discuss the "faults" of the music, only describe what it sounds like to those that appreciate it. If you made a site which just had this (and no rating system), I would be all over it. The ratings are usually what really get me, though. |
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As I have said a number of times already, Barcode takes great pains to "describe" the music as well as give an opinion. A lot of readers find our opinions valid, so for them they are probably happy to read a strong positive or negative opinion, but I am well aware that a description of the music is fundamentally necessary. It doesn't work out that way 100% of the time, but it's a principle. By the way, the reason I often speak in the third-person is because I do not write all the reviews on Barcode, it is a team of 3 or 4. Also, the ratings on Barcode are deliberately underscored. When you read most magazines they are going crazy with their marks, usually because they are paying lip service to labels so they can continue to receive products. We have had a couple of labels complaining about how our reviews are always "negative", so I told them, if you don't like it go and pay for advertising then make up some quotes to put underneath. I don't write good reviews for anyone. By the way Marlowe, you were right in spotting the contradiction in what I wrote about Autechre's evolution, it didn't come out quite how I wanted to explain it. What I meant to say was that the readers' perception is that Barcode assumes Autechre hasn't evolved, not that the music has in our opinion not evolved. |
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may i ask what in your opinion makes autechre so popular for the past 15 years? |
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are you intentionally avoiding my question? |
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Popularity is relative, and hardly an indication of good or bad taste. |
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popular with reviewers and listeners..if you check music sites (not neccessarily electronica focused, like allmusic for example) you can see that they're highly regarded as influental on the whole electronica scene. it seems to me that you can't be objective in this case and you base your opinion on your personal taste. is that review published on your site maybe? |
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on last three ae albums, relatively follows this boards opinion i'd say |
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I didn't say Autechre was not popular, just that popularity is not a measurement of whether something is good or bad. In fact, there is no way of measuring that. How can you go by Metacritic? It takes a number of reviews and comes up with a popularity rating. Chuck in another 100 reviews that they don't feature and that rating could change immeasurably for or against. It's a soft guide at best, not evidence of anything tangible. |
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yea whatev's it's the hardest there is. i wans't attacking you anyway but responding to tolstoyed |
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*hugs biggiesmartypants* |
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Barcode are you hating on Ae just to be different? |
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i bet barcode's gay |
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There is no way to measure if something is good or bad? "3.2" does sound like you made an attempt. |
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You must be some sort of fool. The whole point of this discussion is that an opinion is not a measurement of anything. |
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what about "in my opinion, that's a three foot long lizard"? and that little language note aside, an opinion about a work of art would still be a measurement of how you rate this work of art, and if we suppose you are sincere about it, that is even almost as objective as it gets (though it is an objective statement about your subjective opinion). furthermore, I think you're a troll. |
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Barcode, your methods of arguing are completely juvenile. You're a music critic? I'm the fucking president of the world! |
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It's a pity that I should find a forum about electronic music - a great passion of mine - only to find it's full of argumentative, aggressive, childish simpletons. But then that's web forums for you, the regulars are nearly always bizarre no-life losers, and your responses increasingly mirror that. Good luck nevertheless, but I would only become as sad as you if I stuck around. |
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the regulars are nearly always bizarre no-life losers |
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What are the addicts? |
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don't go there. |
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xltronic pwns critic |
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The statuses are inaccurate to say the least. A handful of one-word replies can turn you from a lurker into an addict. Shouldn't the status be determined by a Time:Points ratio? |
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