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           jonesy
             from Lisboa (Portugal) on 2002-07-23 15:51 [#00321278]
         Points: 6650 Status: Lurker | Followup to Ceri JC: #00321269
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I was baptised a Catholic.
 
  
         
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           Meho Krljic
             from Beograd (Yugoslavia) on 2002-07-23 15:51 [#00321279]
         Points: 6617 Status: Addict | Followup to Loogie: #00321266
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Loogie: as I said, it is not important that you or I could  not live without a dishwasher/ water heater/ running water/  television/ internet. We are not important, if we are  discssing the benefits of human race or planet as a whole.
 
  The problem with capitalist/ consumer society is that it's  so easily marketed. Look at all those very same tribesmen in  africa quickly adopting habits of "us, westerners", drinking  coca-cola instead of water, wearing brandname clothes,  making hip-hop etc. Because it's the capitalism's greatest  weapon, the idea that serial reproduction of articles and  free market economy actually contribute to better life  sounds really reasonable to people who haven't yet been on  the receiving end and don't have the perspective on the  global consequences. 
 
  
         
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           Meho Krljic
             from Beograd (Yugoslavia) on 2002-07-23 15:52 [#00321280]
         Points: 6617 Status: Addict | Followup to jonesy: #00321278
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Jonesy, my one true love, I'm finishing  my message in about  5 minutes. 
 
  
         
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           jonesy
             from Lisboa (Portugal) on 2002-07-23 15:53 [#00321283]
         Points: 6650 Status: Lurker
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Driving back to Rugby very late one night a couple of weeks  ago, I was tuned in to a totally unknown local radio  station, that was playing hit records of the late fifties  and sixties, being a child of that era I was singing along  quite merrily - It‘s sad I know, but I have to admit that  I know all the words of the Everley Brothers, ‘Cathie’s  Clown’ and many more and yet I stumble at some of the  better known hymns - Clearly the sign of a misspent youth!  But then the radio station moved on to a later time and lost  me. I gave up when they started playing Dire Straits ‘Walk  of Life’. I have some admiration for Mark Knofler as an  accomplished guitarist, but as for his ability to sing, well  I struggle here! But the title of that record set me  thinking about the ‘Walk of Life’. 
  Recently, I have been looking at the life of Abraham, the  ‘father of righteousness’ and you can’t really look  seriously at his life without taking into account  righteousness and all that it is and all that it means to  you and me. Let me try and put Abraham into context. Abraham  or Abram, as he was known then, was 75 years old when he  entered Canaan. He wasn’t a Canaanite he was a Chaldean.  We know that God had been working in his life preparing him  for what lay ahead, before he was called out from Ur of the  Chaldeans. But at 75, even by Biblical proportions, he was  not exactly in the springtime of his life, yet in obedience  to his calling he walked hundreds of miles into the land of  Canaan.
  God rewarded Abram’s obedience with a promise - A  covenant. Now I know, we have all had promises made to us by  people and often we have been let down. But here God made  what can only be described as a fantastic promise! Even more  fantastic to Abram and his wife Sarai, because they’d  reached that great age and remained childless! What God  promised was that the seed of this childless man would be  too great to number and what's more they would also have a  land for them to live in! This is where we see Abram as a  man of godly integrity - He believed and never  
 
  
         
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           MachineofGod
             from the land of halo's (United States) on 2002-07-23 15:54 [#00321284]
         Points: 3088 Status: Lurker
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here its been very hot lately like 90 degrees or so  (fahrenheit).  I always recycle and yell at others who  don't.  i recycle paper,plastic and we have this little  house in new york that we go to.  I take all the glass we  cant recycle here and take it there.  
 
  i could live easily without computers and tvs but music is  probably the only form of entertainment that I really really  want would think I need.  If i could only have 1 it'd be  music.  books are also a good thing to have.  its probably  better to not watch tv or go on the internet because you  wont be hearing about buying all this shit you dont need  (fight club talks about this quite a bit).  Were all  consumers so we keep buying unecessary things that waste  space and we end up throwing them away eventually.  we first  need to stop big businesses that produce all of this and  pollute the environment. then we should stop capitalism as  the rich keep buying all this crap and the middle class  tries to overtake the rich.   then and only then will be  able to focus on fixing all this shit in the world that  we've created but unwillingly take  the credit for bringing  about. people get mad about the weather but most people wont  even god forbid think that they had something to do with  this happening in the first place.  of course its a combined  effort from everyone buying and getting rid of and polluting  but each person that does it makes it worse. 
 
  
         
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           jonesy
             from Lisboa (Portugal) on 2002-07-23 15:54 [#00321285]
         Points: 6650 Status: Lurker
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and never doubted God and because of this, God blessed him  again - He added righteousness to this man's heavenly  account. 
  This is where we really do see God's great condescension to  man. Giving a man a righteous standing before Himself  because of his faith and belief. However, in chapter 15 and  verse 8 of Genesis, we read something that at first appears  to be a seed of doubt creeping into Abram’s mind. But  clearly from God’s response it is not. Abram asks God,  "How shall I know that I will inherit it?" Here God  recognises that Abram, the Chaldean, needs something  Chaldean to act as a sign of commemoration. The sacrifice  that God instructs Abram to prepare was not something of His  making, but a traditional Chaldean practise. When covenants  were made in that part of the world, they would be affirmed  by the death of an animal, the number of animals being  dependent upon the importance and relevance of the covenant.  God expressed His wonderful grace to Abram by instructing  him to prepare a Chaldean sacrifice, something that Abram  would really understand.
  So as Abram gathered together the animals and prepared them,  he understood the importance and sanctity of the covenant by  the number of animals that God instructed him to bring. In  the Chaldean tradition, the animals would be divided into  two pieces and the parties to the covenant would walk  between the divided portions. The implication being that  this is what might happen to either of the parties if they  did not fulfil their part of the deal!
  In Chapter 15 of Genesis, God instructed Abram to divide the  animals that he had collected and I imagine that he would  have expected to walk with God between the divided pieces of  animal. But had this happened, the agreement between God and  Abram would have been bilateral and therefore the fulfilment  of the covenant would be dependent upon the actions of BOTH  parties. But when it came to the time to walk, a deep sleep  fell upon Abram and God ALONE, in the image of the smoking  oven and torch, passed between the divided pi 
 
  
         
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           Loogie
             from Oxford (United Kingdom) on 2002-07-23 15:55 [#00321287]
         Points: 1371 Status: Lurker
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Meho I like your perspective on things.
  What's the answer to all this? How about kill the Americans
  only joking in case it wasn't clear
 
  
         
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           Loogie
             from Oxford (United Kingdom) on 2002-07-23 16:00 [#00321293]
         Points: 1371 Status: Lurker
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i didn't know you were a religous man jonesy
 
  
         
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           Meho Krljic
             from Beograd (Yugoslavia) on 2002-07-23 16:01 [#00321295]
         Points: 6617 Status: Addict
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Loogie: no answer. Oppose capitalism wherever, whenever  you  can. We may never stop it but we don't have to contribute to  it either, we can set up an example, a state of mind for  others to look upon...
 
  BTW, I dont think this is really jonesy.
 
  
         
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           Meho Krljic
             from Beograd (Yugoslavia) on 2002-07-23 16:02 [#00321296]
         Points: 6617 Status: Addict
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Oh, wait, it is, he just confirmed it in an email.
 
  
         
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           Meho Krljic
             from Beograd (Yugoslavia) on 2002-07-23 16:03 [#00321299]
         Points: 6617 Status: Addict
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OK, I'm out for today. See ya all tomorrow, hoes!!! Thanks  for the fun. 
 
  
         
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           smokehammer
             from Saigon (Vietnam) on 2002-07-23 16:28 [#00321311]
         Points: 1463 Status: Lurker
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looks like we only have 4 more days to wait until a **  HEATWAVE ** hits the UK . 
 
  I just got that off 2 reliable weather sites... erm .... the  same ones that said last winter would be severe and snowy  ... :(  
 
  
         
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           ExHore
             from Stamford, Ct. (United States) on 2002-07-23 16:52 [#00321345]
         Points: 2157 Status: Regular
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kill all americans is better.
 
  
         
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           deadwhitespoon
             from Vancouver (Canada) on 2002-07-23 18:15 [#00321463]
         Points: 271 Status: Lurker
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Scarey shit on the mb...
  read Thomas Homer-Dixon's 
  Ingenuity Gap 
  for more hope/fear!!!
  www.ingenuitygap.com
  People can't cope with the amount of information out there.  The crashes ging on the stock trading world are not at all  surprising. Theories are basically maps of information, but  information is growing and changing so quickly that the  theories of complex systems (weather, economies, societies,  etc.) are obsolete and useless on any practical level. the  number of trades and reactions to trades are creating mocro  trends that are unpredictable in the short run and  disasterous in the long run. Greenspan is hopelessly  overwhelmed and we expect a speach from GW to pick things  back up!? There is so much we don't know that it's  impossible to run anything reliably today. All you type-As  out there are fucked and need to re-wire your selves inorder  to survive: systems won't and don;t work...there are no  reliable rules. Things will change, but first...trauma.
 
  In response to the UK rain and misery. More's to come. the  is a cold water undersea current called the thermohaline  circulation that runs from the arctic pacific and surfaces  up along France and the UK, bringing the warmer climate  you've come to enjoy ("warmer" compared to other countries  as far north as you). As global warming melts the polar ice  caps, the salinity of this water, and therefore the density,  changes. As this changes, the path of the current changes.  when the current stops surfacing close to the UK, the UK  becomes Norway. Cool, eh?
 
  how bout that druqks album, tho'...
  and talk about overload of information...
 
  
         
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