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 (nobody)...and 541 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614087 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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makes sense |
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I shouldn't have bothered responding, he has the brain capacity of an ant. |
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who? |
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or, do you have some original insight other than covering some other's one with shit? sorry eh |
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huh? |
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Words are not “just” convenient for purposes of communication; words are communication. The point about the words not being the things is as irrelevant as it is obvious. The point is that what you are unable to do is to perceive things as not being perceived by you. That you “cannot claim [the experience] for yourself” simply because someone else has experienced it before you doesn't make sense as it is still you who is experiencing it. If it wasn't you who was experiencing it, you wouldn't be able to know you weren't experiencing it; the proposition that what you are experiencing isn't experienced by you presupposes that you are experiencing what you are experiencing. What you're saying amounts to “I think this thought, but I do not think this thought.” In other words, you do not exist, and all your arguments are void. |
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Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. "You" is an illusion. There is a physical being there, but it's your false identification of it that is what is so paradoxical. In contrary to what you say in your second paragraph, it's definitely true to say that there is no experiencer at all. You are incapable of experiencing anything, thought is the contaminant that has prevented that. You might "think" "you" are the experiencer, but that doesn't make it so. That's why I insist that the word is not the thing. It is a tool for communication, but what is being communicated is always second hand information - not original information, of which the individual is inacapable of in the truest sense of the word. Of course, if you want to function sanely and adequately in this society, then you have to fit the mold and accept the paradox that is "you" "i" "thinking" etc., but it would be nice if humans could gain a better understanding of it so we could function more naturally and in a way that is more mutual beneficial. |
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Barcode: yes. |
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lately, every time i log into xltronic, i feel like i am 100 years old, at least |
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Barcode: Stop this now. i never bother to read past one paragraph cos it really is boolshit. I want to like you. FAV QUOTES: "There is no such thing as "you". There is only the physical entity that you call you, which is entirely manufactured by thought, and therefore has no real substance." "I don't want to accuse you of being a bit of a thickie, but you're not really concentrating on what's being said." I am talking to you and although i've meet a fair few just-out-of-sixthform divs who talk the same shite does not mean you are not yourself. This whole thread is stinky like a dead dogs wollox. |
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BRCODE TINKS VVITH HIS BREIN |
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Shove off. |
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why on this world it would be nice if humans realize that what they are experiencing is not an experience? why on this world it would be nice if humans realize that what they are talking about is second hand informations? you may be right or not but what's the fucking point, since we have been discussing about interesting issues, and the majority of us did not have access to that very second hand information so we appreciate someone who's willing to share dem with us? what's the point in pointing out that what is being shared has already been said by someone else? i am very curious. |
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i wont shove off until you retaliate properly, then we can be pals again cos youre alreet really. stop being such a humourless dick |
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It's fairly obvious. Once you realise that everything you are told is not original, is a copy, that words are dead and only action is real, then you can see clearly the danger and futility of belief, and even worse doing whatever anybody tells you. Once you perceive it, not as a philosophy, but as a reality, then the requirement for belief disappears, and with it indoctrination, manipulation, prejudice, insecurity, fear. You are wholly responsible in finding out how to live, how to act, what is pure, what is contaminated, and what is destructive. There is no fixed path to truth via any book or any person, they can guide you but you cannot live their words, because truth is alive and words, spoken or written, are of the past and dead. You have to investigate for yourself from the limited knowledge pool that is available and mostly full of shit. Part of finding out how to live is stripping away the shit that's already in you, not burdening yourself with more books, more words, more shitty philosophies. But unfortunately humans are bored, ignorant and stuck in a groove, and with that comes the philosophy of make believe, which has become so utterly destructive to us, contaminate thought and ruined the species connection to nature and reality. |
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Pals again? |
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I'M IGNORING YOU |
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(of course) Can i still rip apart your posts whenever it suits me? |
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What a relief. |
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If we are going to not like eachother can you at least be a little more dedicated? |
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the problem with you is...well...you're that guy. |
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You're not doing such a good job of ignoring me. |
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No. It's cos of my baadassballsoutinyoface attitude. Also words are dead, someone cleva said this once i do beleev. |
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Yeah, no-one's words are more dead than yours. |
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ah mayn..that is a poor response. why not teach me more on the fascinating views of barcock. lets revolutionise the meaning of humanity on an mb dedicated to aphextwins! |
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no-one's hyphenated. smart. |
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you could have posted that earlier, cos yes that is fairly clear, but not obvious, not for me at least. and even if it's a second hand information i appreciated it. and even it's up to me, or to others to discern what's useful about that post, you gave me or others the possibility to choose. |
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'Yeah' this is the language of a dullard! you disappoint me. |
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hurray for braying, arrogant pricks battling thimbleheaded cretins in the misguided belief that anybody will ever give the tiniest sliver of a shit |
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i don't like arrogant approaches, even they are clearly put to provoke a reaction, but if you ask if i care, well i do. i mean what's wrong about talking about serious things in here once in a while |
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It's fine to talk on this stuff. I just don't really like barcode cos he's a bit of a ponce. I tried to like him |
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*lobs sliver of shit at belb |
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Are we rational or irrational? U cant make choise, when u can predict its results, becouse sooner or later your decision will change in chain of reasons. So your choise cant be made logical in this way. But when u asume that intuition is your choise everything is posible. But intuition is something that we cant grasp. So in that case maybe we are irrational, if we choose intuition. Just becouse then humans are irrational beings, the reason for choise cant be only enviroment influence. Remember irrationality is aginst the laws of sciense. Enviroment gives us influence, we cant react in same way all the time, nometer thet enviroment conditions are the same. But its not true, when u know everything, but is it posible to know everything (if u know what is intuition)? No http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYbxhXSzEfI |
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Intuition is also choice. The word intuition itself implies making an impulsive decision. Yet you cannot make a decision without choice, otherwise there would be no decision to make, you would just do it. Yet if you do something without thinking about it, you don't call that intuition, there is no pause to acclaim you have made an intuitive decision. Any choice you make is within the framework of thought - intuitive or otherwise, and as thought as limited, therefore choice is always limited or often completely illusory. |
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deep |
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if you spin the word deep 180 degrees it still spells deep. that is so outside the box |
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Often we choose. Sometimes we think we choose but we don't. Super. Not realising you're making a choice. Now that's fun! |
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“"You" is an illusion. There is a physical being there, but it's your false identification of it that is what is so paradoxical.” You is an illusion but yet there is a physical being (and it is even one that is experienced), and this being is one such that I can only falsely identify myself with it? Tell me, then: What is this I that can only falsely identify with a physical being that is there, and which the I experiences as being there to the extent that it would even experience itself as wanting to identify with it, and that even presumably could experience that it couldn't identify with the physical being being there except in a false manner? “You are incapable of experiencing anything, thought is the contaminant that has prevented that. You might "think" "you" are the experiencer, but that doesn't make it so.” But even the “thinking that I am experiencing something” is an experience: The experience of thinking that I am experiencing something. Even the experience of being incapable of experiencing anything would be an experience. Otherwise, it would not be. How can I experience this thinking if I am not experiencing this thinking? How can experience, through experience, deny all its experiencing, and how can it do so without denying the experience that denies all experience? I have not said anything about the nature of the nexus of experiences and yet you seem to presume that I believe there is some sort of ego in a rigid sense. |
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What's your obsession with originality? It isn't so that every thing, every word, and every thought, can only exist once in a single evanescent moment after which it degrades into a pale shadow of its own illusion while retaining the magical ability to hypnotise anyone who should be so unlucky as to stumble upon it. It isn't so that, just because someone else “got there first” as a result of the contingency of them being born before you or me, it is impossible to think a thought “again.” |
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social vs environmental vs biological determinsm. old discussion, and we still don't have answers to your question. |
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philosphy is pretty much outdated in the 21st century in terms of empirically understanding human behavior. psychology, for instance, will become part of biology the next 50 years. there IS no such thing as a difference between body and mind (descartes). it's all science, bitches. |
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“philosphy is pretty much outdated in the 21st century in terms of empirically understanding human behavior.” Philosophy was never about empirically understanding human behaviour. Empirical understanding is a contradiction, by the way. |
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the phrase 'empircal understanding' is a completely legitimate. |
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* - a |
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How so? |
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If there is no experiencer how can there be an experience? You are only saying there is an experience because you think you are the experiencer, when you're not. It's an illusion. You cannot have any sort of experience, because "you" is an illusion, "you" are never there to experience anything. Sounds ridiculous I know, but only because through thought you have completely accepted the concept of the "I" the "ego", which as I have said earlier is entirely manufactured by your culture - you had nothing to do with it. Of course now the word "experience" is loaded with the symbolisations that we have all been spoon fed, best stick with really and accept this false reality - as long as you are happy about it. |
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No, I am just sick of people claiming they are original, when they're not. Not only are they not, but they can never be - it is highly arrogant and unintelligent to even claim it. I dislike the way the word is abused, like most words these days. Especially the word "love", no word has ever been abused as badly as that. |
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now you're just being pedantic. 'empirical understanding' is completely legitimate. do a google search. (or read gadamer.) |
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'If there is no experiencer how can there be an experience?' take a hammer and hit your thumb with it while your in a room alone. if you are not you, and its all just imaginary ur thumb wont be hurting and you wont be 'experiencing' the negative effects of twatin your thumb with a hammer. if you do it in a room with other people there, it hurts you but not the others but they get the experience of it from seeing you writh around and probably say a few words out loud, they didnt experience it, but they know from seeing the reactions of someone who experienced it first hand that it is an experience they dont want, they then make a consious decision to try and not hit their respective thumbs with hammers. therefore i conclude that experiences are real whether first hand, wittnessed or recycled from things said by others, original or not. and from experience comes the option to choose. peas. |
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I don't agree. Given all the attributes that combine to make a person it's inevitable that most are, even if it's in a very small way, individual. Even if someone isn't born individual the sheer multitude of experiences (which are experiences in that any given entity with the ability to perceive can perceive them) combines in a way that allows for at least a handful of people that may not exist anywhere else in the exact same form. There are so many examples of this, but i suppose a good one is that if two men try to create the exact same computer program, even if they could attempt to copy each other by working from the exact same ideas, the two programs would almost definitely have human errors of which aren't identical. Even when humans try there very best to mimic the next man, it fails because of differences in nature and nurture. Individuality is a bit of a cheap word at times but it's never really wrong. I haven't read most of this thread, and i can't imagine that an argument between you and DM (as you are both obviously so dedicated to this subject) can be explained away so easily. I just can't quite grasp this no individuality when i've witnessed so many trying so hard to fit and be nothing but a replica of societies model person, and failing. The growth of humanity is all down to individuals with fresh ideas making new things. We couldn't have progressed past eat fuck sleep if it wasn't for one monkey man who dreamt up concepts beyond his primitive nature. It still happens today. I'm sure there was some god awful point in my life when i was talking this kind of shit as well, but it only serves to limit the subject and simplify something that really can't be rendered down to single terms such as 'it's all illusion'. Give humanity some credit. |
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