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 Now online (1)ijonspeches ...and 333 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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origin of species!!!! really! |
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simplicity is also beneficial. life is good at finding niches where it can exist |
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my god man. spontaneus creation??? i'd sooner believe in god. in the middle ages they thought rats were 'spontaneously created' out of a sack of rotting grain, you know. please, please reconsider. or at least watch more discovery (yes! they do have some good documentaries!) |
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now we should all have this debate when splitting a case of masi valpolicella.. mmm.. the conversation would get quite interesting.. :) |
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damn hehe... I thought this thread was dead. well can you comment on some of the quotes I posted? please =) |
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"spontaneus creation" is not what I believe in. I do not however believe in gradual evolution.. yet that is ;) |
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damn... nobody likes thoose quotes =( |
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and I have so much more I'm curious about... |
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Key_Secret - started reading this post and realised you where from Skövde too... Someone I know? |
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Antagligen inte. Jag går på högskolan, kom hit i höstas. Studerar du, eller jobbar du? |
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Isn't there something called "the second law of thermodynamics" which basically states that nothing is forever? everything will eventually break down - even mountains, the orbits of our planets, the shape of our galaxy, the stars them selves will all eventually die and go cold. The universe is gonna become a very dark and cold place in the future and nothing of what is said in this board will be preserved or remebered... But still, these are interesting questions. : ) |
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Jag är född här, arbetslös och lider av social fobi så... Nej, vi känner nog inte varandra då. : ) |
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får du ut något av topicen? Jag har bara ifrågasatt evolutionen, inte satt upp något alternativ.. detta medvetet. hehe. Kan du mycket om evolutionen? |
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Nej, let's prata english så that de others kan hear oss : ) I basically know the fundamentals, that evolution is what happens when an organism is forced to adapt to changes around it: climate changes, floods, threats of being eaten...those sort of things. Evolution is not a selfdriven thing - it's something that is forced upon the organism. Or am I wrong? |
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Still don't know where this quote is from - could you please tell me? Anyhoo... "Why is it that the 'lower' forms, those which are simpler (and less fit?) have not died out, have not yielded to the principle of Darwinian evolution? They remain in the same form they have had for vast expanses of the fossil record. Why do they not *evolve* into something *higher*?" There is no "higher" or "lower" in biology. There is only alive and extinct. A species survives and remains more or less the same (e.g., cockroaches, sharks, archaebacteria) because it is able to continue reproducing in its environment. There is no secret force in nature that is directing things to become "higher" over time. And if I were you I'd spend some time considering what exactly you mean by "higher". Things become larger and more complex over time compared to the dawn of unicellular life due to variation and a statistical phenomenon known as the Drunkard's Walk. Imagine a drunk guy walking along a wall. That wall represents the smallest and simplest forms. You can't really get much simpler, so every time the drunk hits the wall he bounces off and goes outwards, towards greater complexity. This can give people the illusion that evolution is a process that leads inexorably from the "lowly" bacteria to the "pinnacle" of humanity. If you want to read more about the fallacy of the Great Chain of Being in evolution, check out Wonderful Life by Stephen Jay Gould. |
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Hold on - you're getting your scientific information from, a fucking website?! Stop wasting everyone's time. Go to the library and read some Dawkins and Gould. |
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A species survives and remains more or less the same (e.g., cockroaches, sharks, archaebacteria) because it is able to continue reproducing in its environment. There is no secret force in nature that is directing things to become "higher" over time. so why do species gradually evolve (if they still can reproduce)? What I mean by "higher" is simply that evolution claim they evolve, not degrade. So they become more fit. thanks for another book tip btw. |
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my quotes does not come from internet. |
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damn that's the same stuff. |
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Two reasons: variation and selective pressure. In any population there is a variety of attributes. If there is no selective pressure - and that could be a change in the climate, the arrival of a predator species, or scarcity of food - then the species remains more or less static. However, if there is much competition for food, or predation, or environmental change, then the individuals in the polulation that are best equipped to cope with the change are the ones who tend to survive. So their traits go on and those of the dead are weeded out. The species we see today are the end product of hundreds of millions of years of being sculpted and shaped by the climate, by geography, and by other species. There is a constant balancing act going on - creatures that have evolved complex structures that take a lot of energy to build may find themselves in a situation where those structures are useless. So they tend to atrophy over time as there is no selective pressure keeping them that way. Look at humans and their vestigial tails - the coccyx. Every once in a while a human is born with a tail (look it up on the web) because we stiull have those tail-making genes hanging around in our DNA. |
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That is in response to "why do species gradually evolve" |
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sweet theory! thanks for keeping posting to me (as there seem to be few interested in this). So what do you think I believe in at the moment? I haven't really revealed anything, I've just critized the theory of evolution, but I wanna know what you think =) |
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If you're a troll I will eat you with sharp bunny teeth. |
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I've posted 1000 times here... just guess =) |
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Let's see... you're some wacky new ager who things that life was seeded on earth by aliens? |
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*thinks |
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Well... I have a thought about why we don't see what you call "incomplete" species. Not every animal or organism becomes a fossile, and a fossile only preserves the hard parts of the organsim (right?) - if every animal that ever lived where to be fossilised there would be fossiles all over the place, which there isn't. So... We only see small small glimpses of the whole process with maybe several hundreds of thousands of years inbetween. Now, take for example the use of antibiotics - which has only been in practiacal use since...well I'm not sure but it's sometime during the early 1900's. During the years we have been able to observe how the bacteria that we try to kill off with this fungus gets a higher and higher survival rate as more and more antibiotics are introduced. This is because some bacteria, due to strange anomalies or whatever (maybe faults in their DNA), don't take that much harm from the antibiotics attack and manage to survive. Those few bacteria that did survive can now begin to make offspring that from now on are resistent to this particular "brand" of antibiotics - this is the survival of the "fittest" or perhaps survival of the luckiest. Do you see the chain of events there? And if you have such a fast development over only a century, imagine what can play out over a million years - which is sometimes the gap we have when we find fossils that seem to be related but are different. Evolution is an ongoing thing. A species is not static, it's constantly "evolving" (evolving is just a word, don't get stuck on the phrasing) - even we are, even as we live, but in very small "steps". |
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Hm... I guess Creationism was out of the question... but, well... I'm not gonna tell if you're right.. =) I have done some reading on Interventionism, and I think it's kinda sweet too =) |
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cool more posts... I think I'm about to believe the little theory you're hanging onto =) |
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So I bet I was pretty close. Your theory of life's origins probably has something to do with funky Egyptians from Alpha Centauri, right? Or do you think something different depending on what time of day it is and what drugs you've had? |
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Ok so now... Let's talk about this topic: Do we have free will? I mean, every action you take - be it a laughter or a piss - is a reaction to something preceeding it. Right? So when you choose to suddenly hit someone in the face, was that really your free will or something that infact was a reaction to an event that unfolded perhaps two billion years ago - leading up to the actual punch in the face, no matter how volentary it felt. : ) |
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I think the universe and everyhting in it was created with perfect memory ten minutes ago. |
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you have free will... but there's a reason for every cause. |
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Egyptians are funky indeed. |
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ok, if you say so... |
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I have no free will. All things follow the will of Gluha'arb the Benevolent. |
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He's the one that is wearing a hamburgerbread on your avatar i guess? : ) |
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No you fool, that is a rabbit with pancakes on his head. |
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Well... you...eh...are a fool too! HA! |
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well... Like you stated, and another example is insects who don't die from bugspray and stuff. The ones that survive might just aswell have been resistent from the start. Then thoose bugs (who are resistent) reproduce - so in fact they don't change; they just reproduce their own kind (and since the others die, their kind becomes more frequent). Just another way of looking at it. |
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What is the evidence for interventionism? |
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sorry... I wish I knew more about it.... but I know there's a guy named Lloyd Pye, who is one (according to his webiste) of the leading proponents of Interventionism. He's kinda funky! =) Here's an article he wrote on Darwinism VS Interventionism |
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hehe... he's really funky I tell you... here's of the article. |
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we invented time, so we cant grasp the concept of timelessness. Why does the universe have to have a beginning? |
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yeah, true... For us time = change. |
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personally I don't care of stuff like the begning of the universe, since we can only make up theories about it (and we can only base thoose theories of what we know right now, like you said, we can't make up a scenario where there's e.g. no time involved). The foremost reason for that I don't care is that it does not affect my future (nor can I change the past). It's not even a part of my own, as an individual, past. |
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ok hows this then, in the end, life is meaningless. Its true. All you can do is breed or hope that you're as lucky as mozart and leave something behind that lasts more than a few years. Who knows anything at all about their great great grandfather? You follow? Enjoy what you have. |
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If you think life is meaningless - kill yourself. I do not agree of that. I think life's the greatest experience of all, and the only experience I know of. |
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im not saying life isnt great, not at all. Im just saying that in the long run, it means nothing. The sooner you come to terms with it, the better everything becomes. Zen mind beginners mind |
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Buddhism has made some influence on me... It's really important to be independent; not dependent on anything. |
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