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 (nobody)...and 575 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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speaking of morality without religion, , that our evolution lead us to be moral creatures. |
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Good read. |
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It shouldn't be called natural selection, that implies some sort of force or determination, and I know it confuses people. There's nothing in the process that is in any way formalised or following any rule ("survival of the fittest" is making sense of randomness); any set of possible circumstances are circumstances that just so happen to be there at that point in time and any possible mutation is a mutation that happens to happen at that point; That the process should be determined (directed) in any way is as absurd as the process itself; There is no goal, but rather random happenings that happen to produce a random result that could be otherwise if circumstances were otherwise. |
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You sure there's no goal? The whole intent is survival. (This is not to say it's "willful" intent). |
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It's not an interesting idea, it's a stupid idea. He's just putting god in nature. Morality is about the situation-transcendental should, not is, and you know going from is to should is a fallacy. That guy is equally confused by the "natural selection" phrase, and seems to believe nature selects. Nature doesn't select, as selection is an action (which requires mental faculties, like a will and reason). Nature is happenings. |
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Yes. It's all just random and absurd, but people don't seem to be able to get this, so they use anthropomorph language to describe it. |
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So, you think everything is completely random, and all this "thinking" is just us applying a pattern where none exist? |
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I see where you're coming from, and I maybe agree a little about the use of anthropomorphic terms... however, not all forces in "nature" are are neutral. for instance, in that article i linked, he uses society as a major component of the human environment which drives our evolution. And, of course 'society' is comprised of conscious beings. Also, the genetic mutations may be random, but the favoring or discarding of those mutations is most definitely not random. |
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Hey guys let's argue about semantics. |
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We're not "arguing" we are DEBATING!!! |
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(jokes) :) |
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This all reminds me of that irony thread. |
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No, I think everything is meaningless, and part of what thinking is is us making sense out of everything. What's random is the process itself. Now, random is used in opposition to determined here, and it doesn't mean that everything is just flailing around uncontrollably, but rather that there's no necessity in any of it, as there would be if there was a reason to it. |
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I think by far the most interesting aspect of this thread is that after all this time monoid is still able to create massive discussions like this. |
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Damn nihilists! ;) I see your point. And yeh it was semantics, I genuinely thought you meant "random" as in a state of chaos, not random as in a state of random occurance. |
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There you go using anthropomorph words again. There's no favoring or discarding, but rather.. I think persistence is a neutral enough word. That which happens to be able to persist persists. That guy's main problem is that he says we're born with a genetic disposition to do good.. as if the genes have any clue as to what they're doing. They do what they've been made to do, and somehow, I don't know how, consciousness undeniably emerges from the system, and is furthermore, as so many other wholes, more than the sum of its parts. I've got to go listen to people talk about clean and renewable energy now. I've also got to curse a cat for posting in a monoid thread. |
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So it's kind of like Venetian Snares releases. Completely random and doesn't make sense, but some people like it, therefore there is a reason to it. Therefore, we exist because some people like to live. Demand and supply, bitches. But then there is a question: what came first? Demand or supply? Oh my. Let's all take acid and try to figure out things that will never get us anywhere, anyway. |
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Oh, I'm not a nihilist: even if the world is meaningless, you should persist and live the life you see fit! I love normative statements! |
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i also agree with a concept of 'random evolution' in the sense that although we are still talking about cause and effect, each cause itself is subject to perhaps an infinite amount of causes. taking that angle, scientific discovery can be viewed as a process of working backwards through the causes of a situation. |
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No thing is Real. Thinking & speaking require belief. However hard people may try, you can't avoid believing. "I just can't help believing" as Elvis sang, and he knows nothing. Experience is subjective -- experiencing isn't reality or truth, it's just more personal than knowledge. Nihilists, theists, atheists, agnostics - whatever isms there are, they're all based on a system of belief, either organised (Religion, Society) or personal (Thought, Experience). It's inescapable and leads to either insanity because the Ego cannot transcend, or joy because the Ego can transcend. I believe that the nearest we can come to Purity is by the systematic destruction of thought. This may be attained in two steps: Yoga to control the body, to allow Meditation to control the mind. Too many people attempt Meditation without the prerequisite Yogic training. Following these steps may allow one to destroy thought. |
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Im not religious |
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smashing prove ! i will never look at peanutbutter the same way now... |
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seen it. hilarious. "Evolution teaches that energy such as lightning or heat, plus matter, can occasionally create new life." yeah. sure it does. |
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but, uh, isn't that actually a possibility, though? Like some bacteria that mutates in a jar of peanut butter and creates a new bacteria that cures cancer and then that guy ate it and now the world will never know because omg we don't look in the peanut butter 4 new lyphe? |
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