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I was surprised not to see the creation of any threads on the death of yesterday. He spent almost half his life on death row, renounced gang violence in 1993 and went on to write children's books and organise programs to educate youths on the evils and dangers of gangs. He also brokered a peace agreement between the Bloods and Crips from jail. His work earned him Nobel Peace Prize nominations every year from 2001 to 2005 and a commendation from George W. Bush, among other accolades. He protested up until his death his innocence of the four murders of which he was convicted. Whether he was innocent or not is difficult to ascertain - I think, given the circumstances, his plea of innocence was at least slightly dubious but, regardless of that, it should have been recognised that this was one case in which jailtime served to reform the incarcerated. Thoughts? |
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I agree; jailtime would have been better. But tell that to the families of those he murdered. IMHO their opinion of what happens to him matters 10 fold more than mine ever could. |
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i don't know enough to say he was right or wrong there was some info on independent media sites here and it was the first time i heard about him. |
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fuck him if someone killed my loved one i would have no problem with them dying - i would prefer, however, to kill them myself |
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U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! |
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If he got off I think maybe some criminals may then think, oh yeah I may get put on death row but then I can reform, become famous and get away with it. |
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anyone facing life in prison or death, no matter what they did - would claim reformation you'd be an idiot not to |
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he's exhibited it, however. he's received 5 nobel peace prize nominations and a commendation from your dim-witted president.. you can't fake achievements that prompt that sort of praise and respect. |
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you asked for peoples opinions on this matter |
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so a commendation from a dimwit is worth something to you? |
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No, but several Nobel Peace Prize nominations from professors across the US are. |
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they're probably just crips looking out for their "homie" |
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you'd have to ask yourself - is your jailsystem meant for retribution or for rehabilitation. |
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I have no idea why that was a follow-up to virginp. as it has nothing to do with that post.. hmm.. |
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So what are your thoughts on the matter?? |
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It shows that people can have a positive influence on society even after they've commited murder. I think personal feelings of victims should be separated from the justice system. Criminals would soon lose their arms and/or legs and would be tortured to death if we let their victims have their way. |
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I think it's a tragedy - as qrter said, you have to look at what the purpose of jailtime is. In Tookie's case, it seems to have worked to rehabilitate him - with very constructive effects, not only for himself, but people outside and nationwide. I think it's a great pity. He could've spent life in jail; not a nice prospect, but at least would've been able to utilise his image to do good in the following years. |
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They should have just left him in there, American assholes. |
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Hardly a tragedy. I can think of harsher things that still couldn't be called a tragedy. But I still believe they have no right to kill him. An executioner takes his life for taking others lives... If you want to play by that logic, who takes the executioners life? |
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redrum, just beacuse he is making books and the sort, you have no idea what is going on in that man's head. just because he appears to have changed and is trying to help others, in no way garauntees that if he were to release, that he wouldnt do harm again. assumptions assumptions. as vp said, you asked us our opinions, like i said, my opinion is garbage because i have no ties with this guy nor the families of the victims, etc. my opinion is meaningless ... really holds no water because im only looking through a glasspeice from miles away from the situation |
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Its not a tragedy, shooting people over $120 is a tragedy. |
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I think any american arrested, in trouble with the law or has had friends that were know its not for rehabilitation. Lets be honest he was black and he founded a gang and he had a issue of murder. That and his quite historical past caught up with him. This is why i wasnt surprised when all this took place. Is it right? no. But i must make a point.... just because someone wrote childrens books clearly shouldnt affect that. I have never heard of another instance where it has affected a jailed individual. The evidence was questionable and in america you are innocent until proven guilty. On that basis alone he should definately not have died. Granted i dont know all too much about the evidence but i saw there was some questionable. What gets me is people that have no idea what the fuck they are talking about (see: celebs) trying to get this man off the hook. Snoop was a crip.... i'll let that slide. But unless you know what happened and the rules and laws of this country (celebs seem not to half the time) they should shut the fuck up. Should he have died? no. But there are tons and tons of cases just like this. Where were all these celebs for them? I've heard that there have been a large number of so called murder/rape cases that could have been reversed with modern day DNA evidences... but those people have passed on. Anyways yeah thats all i have to say. |
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note: i followed up qrter in fun because he followed up me :) |
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i hate the fact that people turning good later on are believed to be extra good, like churchfather augustine |
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Also its note worthy that many of our police stations in the US are corrupt. Anyone that lives in a city can tell you that. They have quotas to meet even though they will deny it. Of course they deny it.. quotas are illegal |
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Nobody ever mentioned his release in this thread. Also, I think the opinion of a layperson is worth much more than that of the family of the people against whom a crime is committed. If that is not the case, and you are correct in what you say - then why is there such thing as an impartial jury? And also, where is there such thing as a judge, he who must be impartial to the case, have no connection to it or the victims involves, and who decides the sentence? |
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*the victims involved |
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If that is not the case, and you are correct in what you say - then why is there such thing as an impartial jury? And also, where is there such thing as a judge, he who must be impartial to the case, have no connection to it or the victims involves, and who decides the sentence? Well these average jurors that you speak of were the voice in this case. There was a judge behind it and I am sure they saw enough evidence and testimony to convict him. They dont just hand out death penalties. |
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did i live in philly...wanna talk about corrupt cops? mumia abu jamal ring a bell? plus i dont give a shit about someone who kills a certain amount of people then realizes what they did was wrong - ill never do it and i STILL know its wrong... thats like congratulating someone for not run head first into a mulcher |
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did = dude |
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"just because he appears to have changed and is trying to help others, in no way garauntees that if he were to release, that he wouldnt do harm again." besides the fact that noone was talking about his release, that goes for anyone, whether they have murdered before or not. it's not a lot to go by, is what I'm trying to say. |
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one must understand that rich americans love to see black men go to jail, and even better if they are on death row, even if their tax dollars are paying for it. i am against the death penalty and the continued oppression of black americans. |
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you should run for mayor, sporting the gescom hat, sir. |
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we should tie them up and let the families of the victims have em jails / prisons are a waste of my tax money - id rather see it go towards snow removal ! |
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anyone facing life in prison or death, no matter what they did - would claim reformation you'd be an idiot not to LOL unless you're one of the many cognitively disabled people on death row that the USA executes every year! |
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dude for real. They never get snow plowed on time. I am always winding up fishtailing all over the place |
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so you're all up for barbarism then. okay. |
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1 - A proven proportion of death row inmates (and regular inmates for that matter, especially blacks), have been proven innocent, either at the last moment or, sadly, after execution. Some of these have been uncapable of defending themselves (for the reason of being uneducated, retarded, too young, or simply too black) - but that's nothing to die for, I hope. Sadly this fact is something the system has learned to live with. 2 - schwarzenegger is a racist, bigoted, phoney, hypocritical, opportunist, misanthropic, misogynistic hatemongerer. That's beside the point (but what the fuck is he doing in the governer's chair!?). ... well, death penalty is a form of deity worship (on the altar of death), an animal sacrifice, a pseudo-monarchical feat of an autocrat, a form of mob rule, a public spectacle. In short, a form of sports. Really, pretty 18th century. Jailing, on the other hand, is more like the 19th Century, which is anyway slightly better, if feckin stupid. Oh well, how else keep a couple of million unwanteds out of the streets? Camps are so passé... (btw, that guy probably killed a lot of people, and was pretty cynical about the whole reformation thing: it's just good TV) |
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This guy didn't even start to show signs of reform until '93 and those peace prize nominationas are 'reported' and he CO-produced those books - lets get the facts straight... And I'm sorry but the law is the law (dumb or not)... letting him off would have been like giving in to hostage takers - does not really set a useful precedent. |
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