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I'm sure this has been discussed a few times before, but the search feature yielded no results, and I'd like to hear some thoughts abou it, as this is more-knowledgable-than-average group here. I've been near vegan for nearly a year now, and I feel healthier mostly, but I have been reading and have become a bit sceptical about the healthiness of an extremely strict vegan diet, in regards such a diet providing a good source of b12. I've read that plant based or micro organism based sources are not nearly as reliable as that found in animal products because they often also contain high levels of analogous substances which resemble b12, but can inhibit the body's absorption of actual b12. Also, a doctor would very likely tell their patient to take b12 supplements if they were on a strict animal-product-free diet, but I have read that all of the supplements with the vitamin in its most ideal form are from animal sources. I don't think that we need to eat meat just because of our evolutionary past, but it also seems a bit impractical to adhere to a vegan diet strictly, and get a very crucial vitamin only through supplements. But I'd really like to hear some differing opinions/thoughts on this matter. |
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i don't know man. nothing beats a good juicy steak. |
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well, put it this way, have you ever seen a healthy looking vegan? no, they are all skinny pale waifs. |
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like you then. |
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ain't nothin wrong with dat |
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how would you know? |
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i think it's great if you can do the vegan thing, but it really takes getting used to not going for that milk, cheese or butter if you have been eating it previously. i've been vegetarian for four years now (i don't see myself ever turning back), and while the vegan lifestyle appeals to me greatly, i don't think i could ever do it. i like too many different foods! but as far as vitamins, i don't know much about the b12 thing really. it definitely seems like something you have to be careful with, especially if you don't want to consume anything animal based. i don't see anything wrong with taking supplements unless they come from something you don't agree with. |
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Well you don't often see the 'waifs' from countries that eat little or no meat or animal products developing cancer, heart disease, and most other diseases that plauge those with western diet. So I'd take that kind of 'health' over physical appearence. |
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agreed! |
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hey the ads at the bottom just changed to the "veggie connection" and "food fight vegan grocery". someone start a porn thread. |
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Vegetariens have it easier than vegans because they can still buy veggie pizzas at the store or restaurant and others yummy things that cook quickly. If you plan on becoming a vegan, get a good vegan cookbook and plan your meals, that way you can still eat awesome food. It just is a little trickier since you have to cook for yourself most of the time. Thats a good thing though. |
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Yeah well the problem is b12 only naturally occurs in any real amount in animal based products. It is possible for a person to get their b12 from a certain kinds of yeast, or fermented soybean products like tempeh, but the amount of b12 in thses items depends entirely on the type of culture, and even then the amount of b12 is much less than in meat/dairy/eggs, and it is disputed if these types of b12 are as easily absorbed because of the common inclusion of similar substances that appear to be b12 when chemically tested. It would seem that the most natural source is the easiest to absorb, and that most supplements made with the ideal form of b12 are made of animals anyway. I have been considering buying some cow livers from a free-range farm, and eat a tiny bit of that every week , rather than take a supplement. I read that one small serving of liver has 600% of your recommended daily supply of b12. It would be really gross, but probably more healthy than relying on a vitamin pill for it all. Also, livers are likely thrown away by some cattle farmer, so ethically, you are being resourceful with the animal, and using for a good reason what would otherwise probably be wasted. I know livers must have a lot of toxins in them, especially if they are from factory-farm animals, but I would doubt that from a free range animal the liver would be any more toxic than your average hot dog or a few greasey slices of pizza, and that small amount of liver would be the only animal product you would ever need to occasionally eat, instead of a pill. I guess one could make the argument that it isn't ethical to pay a butcher, because you are therefore supporting the meat industry, but most vegans are probably unable to avoid supporting meat-selling grocery stores and restaurants quite often, so that argument doesn't hold so well for me. |
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I read this as "vaginism" and wondered what that could possibly imply. I also wonder what it might do to the ads now I've typed it. |
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let's try: vaginismus |
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but if you eat the liver you're not a vegan! that is, if you really care about labeling yourself as such. from a health standpoint, i think that small tiny amount could only be beneficial to you if that's really how you want to consume your b12. but you would rather eat that nastyness than take a supplement? i'd go with the supplement, but try to find one that is produced as organically and wasteless as possible, rather than some generic supermarket brand. |
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I dont eat meat or fish..and i dont worry about the b12 part...and i'm not a skinny pale waif. |
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I don't eat meat or anything with meat derived stuff (gelatin rennet etc, I'm fine with dairy and free range eggs though) I'm definitely not skinny, and ever since the switch I've had more energy and felt healthier than ever, but that's probably only because of the kind of crap I used to eat beforehand, vegetarianism just filtered out most of the crap in my case. I've heard about the b12 thing before but I've never paid all too much attention to it before, probably because I don't understand what long term period without it would do, I'm sure there's plenty of people that miss out on all kinds of vitamins althrough their life and wouldn't know. |
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oh! look how ads are effected by this topic. |
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i was vegan for a few years but now eat dairy and eggs. i recommend taking a b12 supplement if you are vegan. it is impossible to live in the west and eliminate completely your reliance on products derived from animals. materials in medicines, roadways, even vitamins added to bread and on and on are animal derived. consider it a personal preference, not an obligation. but if you are vegan, add some extra b12. |
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but thats not the point, just read this for a minute. |
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if they're not willing to breatfeed their own kid than they've got problems |
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'vegetarian parents malnutrition' in google : 17300 results. from the first page : - Vegetarian parents charged in malnutrition death of 5-month-old - Vegan parents on trial for baby's severe malnutrition - Child abuse by vegan parents - Vegan Couple Starved Toddler, Cops Say lol |
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̠ |
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look like you need to get some vitamin b7 into ya =D |
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Well b12 is very important, and once you get a deficiency it will cause irreversible neurological damage. It's also not instantly noticeable. It can take up to 10 years for the b12 supply to leave the body entirely after switching to an all plant diet. If it's gone your body can't use the proteins you eat, among other things. That's why you see the cases of children getting really fucked up from their vegan parents, it's almost always because the parents didn't feed the child enough b12, and/or the mother didn't eat b12 when she was pregnant/breastfeeding, and it is an incredibly important vitamin when their brains and nerves and shit are first developing. It's sad any parents would use such a strict diet without really looking into it fully, and being extremely cautious if they go with it. It's also sad how some people use their diet as some kind of badge of superiority or something, and are not really focused on the good reasons why they would make such a choice. In a way, it reminds me sometimes of some religious people who only use their religion as some kind of membership card and ignore what it really means to be a religious person. I guess that's not a great comparison, but both groups are sometimes overzealous and very irrational |
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No wait. That wasn't a good comparison. |
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