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Whenever I read interviews with game creators, or previews and reviews, the thing that is focused on and used to show off the game is its new gaming concepts. Now, I know that gameplay is important because we're obviously dealing with games here, and if a game plays very poorly then it isn't going to be a particularly convincing experience. But all my favorite games ever haven't actually had particularly revolutionary gameplay, and if they had it was in conjunction with a brilliant atmosphere that draws you in and makes you want to see what's round the next corner. Ico, the Zelda games, Outcast, Silent Hill games, point and click adventures, Grim Fandango...etc. The music in these games still rings in my head, as does the locations, the characters, the overall "feel". The same goes for Unreal (which actually has pretty damn dull gameplay) yet draws you in to this opressive, lonely alien atmosphere. To be honest, I am tired of seeing gameplay pushed and pushed while the "feel" and atmosphere of a game (which is greatly affected by pacing, music, ambient sounds, location, little details, fluidity) isn't being given that same treatment. I do find a lot of modern games flat-there have been some stunning experiences, but I am waiting for a developer to simply make a game in an established genre, with regular gameplay yet a huge emphesis on a seemless, highly atmospheric world. You can forgive a game for it's faults a lot more easily if it has an emmotionally involving soundtrack, a sense of history, and real depth to its world. Just look at Silent Hill2. I wouldn't even mind a game, perhaps like Silent Hill or Ico, which is completely devoid of shooting, puzzling, or any missions, but where you can simply explore a world how you please, perhaps with character interaction or a mild objective to keep things from getting too pointless (although, if the world is interesting enough it will not feel pointless exploring it.) |
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watch a movie, maybe? i know what you're saying, but i there's nothing i can really say about it. i occasionally play gnibbles every now and then. that game doesn't have much atmosphere, though... |
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Cool post, good points, hot sex. Y'know, I'm at the point where I play games almost strictly for the ''artistic'' part of it. I rarely play games on ''hard mode'' and I rarely replay games, except months or years after the fact. I don't bother going for high scores and earning the goodies, I just want to experience the stories and worlds. When there's so much meat and history to them, like MGS, that enhances it so much. Fuck the haters that don't like sequels, I want them by the bushel. I've invested too much in characters like Snake and Ratchet to want to say goodbye. I just beat Doom 3 for Xbox, and while the game is pretty much devoid of actual exciting gameplay, I really appreciated the work that went into crafting the base you're running through. I actually felt trepidation when walking into a room with windows you could look out of and see Mars... it sort of took my breath away thinking of what would happen if those windows shattered, so I can only assume that the game was doing a great job presenting the situation/environment. Dragged on way too long, and Hell was a real boring anticlimax, but there were some stunning locales. Highly detailed enclosed halls, which I like. Resdient Evil 4 did the horror thing much better, it has a high-art world (nobody will ever forget that village), AND A+ gameplay. It's going to be heavily copied, since the gameplay aspect is such a great mix of action and atmosphere. Fuck, I could barely carry on at times. Thrice as kinetic and cardiac-arresting as any horror movie I've ever seen. Too bad the acting and everything is still terrible. But that only comprises .05% of the game anyway. Silent Hill 2 was the most affecting game of all time for me, aurally and visually, I instantly get lonely and depressed when I think about tha game. I agree that ICO was a great achievement, too. You can't even die, you can't lose. The locations and ambience is just so engrossing. |
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Thankyou for the brilliant post Ophecks, you expanded on, and imrpoved on what I was trying to say. And your examples were spot on. |
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i sort of hear you, it's nice to have a game which makes you feel that you're part of "another world". the last game i played that had this was 'vampire: the masquerade'. it had me immersed from the start, the gameplay was good, it had quite an interesting history and the graphics were really up there. overall a good concept. great game. |
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I think gaming is better than ever, really. There's not going to be any revolution until we actually have virtual reality or holograms or something, people are going to complain about games being stagnant or more of the same, but if you look deep, you'll be satisfied. Games next gen are going to be bigger and better than ever, they always are. Wait 'till devs like Konami get a hold of the PS3 and the Cell. You think Half Life 2 was an experience (it is), wait till Metal Gear Solid 4. That's going to set the benchmark when it comes to looks, sounds, story and gameplay. The fact that it's a sequel is going to get cynics riled, but that's a pretty shallow view. The technology is going to enable some really epic worlds and strories. Gaming now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever before. Recently, God of War really nailed the gameplay + immersion/story/setting equation. Work of art. |
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Metal Gear Solid 3 gave me "that feeling" in spades. |
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I nearly wept during the closing moments and the ending, I'm half-embarrased to say, ha. That MUST mean the game was going above and beyond the call of duty. And that's what I play games for now. They fulfill the ''having fun'' role that they always have since the NES days, plus there's great potential for something more, as technology improves. But very few games are hitting that mark right now. For every MGS with intelligent stories, smart styles and deep characters like The Boss, there's an RE4 with pathetic, intelligence insulting scripts/characters. And that really sucks, because I think RE4 is the most progressive action game around. But the cut scenes and story just sting. I hope next gen games with the pathos of MGS will be the norm, not the exception. |
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Try playing REZ if you haven't already one of most original games I ever played the ambient of the game is very Tron a nice gaming experience overall. |
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the first medal of honor single player (not the expansion packs, but the main game from a while back) has this level my friend got to it first tod me to play it only at night , lights all off and with headphones on so i did it's like, you're out in winter in the woods the ambience was beautiful, i played it so slow ... my heart rate dropped, and i snuck up behind every enemy,. man oh man this is one of my best game experiences ever |
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I must say, after all the games I've played (RE4 and Doom included) System Shock 2 still takes home the prize for most atmospheric. Somehow the art, music and sound effects of the game create a sense of tention that is palpable. Its a shame that it didn't become popular. Other games have burrowed from it discreetly like Metroid Prime(story revealed through abandoned journals) and RE4(storage system). If only it was remade using the new Doom or Half-life engine... ahh then people would appreciate the glory of the many. |
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for some reason i always get lost in vietcong. the whole jungle warfare thing is enough to keep me occupied for hours. i multiplay this more than anything. |
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i totally agree... with Ophecks as well. and i almost wept during the MGS3 ending too. |
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Now that would be great. Hell, they remade the first Metal Gear Solid for no apparent reason... maybe SS will get a facelift someday. Or not. I wouldn't mind a Deus Ex remix either, but then again, better to spend those resources on a new game than a remake. |
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Haha. Everyone ''almost wept'' when the beat MGS3. But is anyone man enough to say they actually DID weep? |
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well this topic instantly reminded me of "American McGee's Alice". That game just oozed atmosphere.Great visuals and the best soundtrack ever. Nothing has ever come close to it since for me. As for other games, the Max Payne games had great atmosphere, as did Buffy the Vampire Slayer(Xbox),Unreal, UT,Vampire:The masquerade,Half-Life and Sin. |
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i reccomend you some games: if you like the silent hill series you should play to resident evil 4 (best game horror of ever) like ophecks said Resdient Evil 4 did the horror thing much better, it has a high-art world (nobody will ever forget that village), AND A+ gameplay. It's going to be heavily copied, since the gameplay aspect is such a great mix of action and atmosphere. Fuck, I could barely carry on at times. Thrice as kinetic and cardiac-arresting as any horror movie I've ever seen. Too bad the acting and everything is still terrible. But that only comprises .05% of the game anyway. and you have reason the legend of zelda has a fantastic atmosphere! especially ocarina of time but also the wind waker! |
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I've found the opinions and reccomendations here very interesting, thanks. I've played Rez, and it's one of my favorite games of all time. I just wish a sequel was in the works, as I've played the original to death! |
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I must've been reading different gaming magazines and sites than you. it's all been about developing new graphics engines so as to create a more immersive world and less and less about gameplay, the last two years or so. |
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as much as id like to think gaming atmosphere is improving (and it is really), i also think the industry in general, is going to be complete utter shit. you have thousands of bone headed morons who refuse to play a game because it "doesn't have guns and blood". these are the primary gamers of the next generation consoles. they rail against anything that, while it has good gameplay, doesnt even remotely contain action, or guns, or blood. and yes, its this bad. read ebgames.com reviews sometime--try metal gear acid. its absurd. thats why xbox is so popular in the states. i think xbox is powerful and has some nice games, but it just falls into this whole shitty mess more than the other companies. remember prince of persia? it was toted as a "family game" almost, and the cover looked that way too. now with prince of persia 2, the company realizes that "more badass action is what the kids want" so they gave the game this completely retarded blood/action/violince/goth rock persona. ridiculous. thats why you see 349820349823085 different sports games coming out even though most of them are exactly like the ones before it. this is why you have army simulations coming out to the point of exhaustion. for fucks sake i saw a commercial for brothers in arms, that said "highest rated WWII game ever". what the fuck? are there seriously that many world world 2 games coming out that you can brag about how highly rated its been? i hope this is only temporary. dont get me wrong, there are a lot of "older" games that are shit and pale in comparison--im not favoring a side. but the way the industry is looking right now, i am not pleased, and im actually pretty fearful. |
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it isn't temporary, I'm afraid. when it became clear that computer and console games became at least as and even more popular than films as choice of entertainment, the smell of money hit the air like never before. and so the gaming industry goes the way of Hollywood. but there will always be good games, just a greater load of shit to wade through. |
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yeah. its quite unfortunate, but oh well. will be looking foward to those games i guess! "do urself a favor..buy some pokemon cards if u want a card game..other than that..buy a real game like gta. " <- the new generation of gamers. |
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Ophecks: no tears flew down my face but i had the taste of them, and the ball in the throat... really it was close, and i was restraining myself because i wasn't alone : ) CS2x: don't rejoice too soon but i read that a sequel was in the works... i read that long ago though (last year?) and no word since then : | |
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Games, what arre you kids like ey? |
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qrter, I read magazines like Edge and GamesTM. And I agree, there is also an emphesis on having good graphics today, but those do not make an involving, original, powerful atmosphere. Many SNES games still beat far more graphically pleasing games because of their characters, locales, stories, and music (especially the old Square RPGs and the Zelda games.) I mean, Myst looked stunning, but it felt so static and dead and completely uninvolving....(sorry to all of you who love this game, it's just my opinion.) |
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The many sings to us.. |
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That's exactly what I was thinking.There's too much focus on atmospherics these days, games look and sound great, but so many of them are just awful to play. |
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arent games a waste of time? or do you think you learn worthwhile stuff from it? call of duty gave kinda a good image of wwII armor and stuff |
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You make some good points, especially what Ubisoft did to the Prince of Persia franchise. But I totally disagree with the ''industry going down the crapper'' point. Take a look at all the NES and SNES games that were complete shit, licensed shovelware. It's an even greater percentage than today, just look. And in the early days of 3D console gaming, there were some truly rotten games that have aged terribly, and a constant stream of PC FPS and RTS' that did nothing to differentiate themselves from the pack and have been totally forgotten. Do you game a lot these days? No disrespect, but it sounds to me like you're not heavily into it anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong. Because I can't understand how anyone who's a hardcore gamer can deny that the PS2/Xbox/GC/PC era DESTROYS all that came before it. Just ignore the mainstream shit. I know it's hard to sometimes, but there is SOOOO many great games from this gen. Forget the bad marketing and licensed games. From this gen (2000-2006 or something like that), we won't remember Catwoman or True Crime or Prince of Persia 2, we'll remember RE4, Half Life 2, MGS, God of War, ICO/Wanda and the Collussus, GTA, Ratchet and Clank, World of Warcraft, Jak and Daxter, Rez, Silent Hill 2-4, Katamari Damacy, Sly Cooper, Otogi, Devil May Cry, Metroid Prime, cel shaded Zelda, Jade Empire, Chronicles of Riddick, Animal Crossing, Ninja Gaiden, Viewtiful Joe, Jet Set Radio, Mercenaries, Splinter Cell, the DK bongo games, SSBMelee, Baten Kaitos, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, the new Paper Mario, Beyond Good and Evil, the afforementioned Max Payne, Red Faction, Disgaea, Morrowind, Full Spectrum Warrior, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Homeworld, Maximo, Far Cry, Zone of the Enders, PSI Ops, etc. Many more I'm forgetting, that's how good this era of gaming has been. |
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Not to mention the more ''derivative'' but still great games/sequels like Gran Turismo, Doom 3, the GC Resident Evils, Unreal, Soul Calibur, Rome- Total War, Hitman, Deus Ex 2, Thief, Final Fantasy, Rainbow Six, Suikoden, SOCOM, etc. Sorry, but you're zany if you can't see how much innovation and freshness is in that list. It shits all over every other era of gaming, easily. The quality of the QUALITY games this gen is much better than the games from 5-10 years ago, just go back and play them. Just to consider one of the most popular and traditional genres, look at platformers. Sony's first party platformers changed the platforming landscape and the sequels look to go even further, there's no stagnation. Mario 64 was amazing at the time, but we've come a long way and there's a long way to go. Nobody's stalling or compromising the art of platform games to ''be cool''. There is huge progress and innovation in that genre. Regarding Brothers in Arms... it's an excellent, rock solid game. It isn't revolutionary, but so what? Not every game has to be a Half Life 2 or RE4 progressive virtuosic experience. I listed plenty of those from this gen up there, play them instead if you're not interested in BIA or sports games. It has a target audience and they'll be pleased, I don't see what's so bad about the ''best WWII game ever''. Keep pushing this ''sub genre'' forward until it becomes something special, I say. You don't have to buy it. It's a great game, I'm getting it as soon as Blockbuster puts it up used. Anyway, cynicism is like the ONLY constant among gamers. They're never pleased. In the past 6 months, we've gotten HL2, MGS3, RE4, God of War, and people STILL aren't content? All of these games, even though some are sequels, are so full of awesome new shit, it's unreal. Nostalgia is a confusing thing. |
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Of course that was all directed to Disassemble's post. Ho ho ho! |
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I don't play computer games anymore but I have to say Ico and Silent Hill 2 both stand out as being the most amazing games i've ever played. The atmosphere in both is second to none. Ico 2 may get me back into gaming again but i'm not sure how that will turn out. |
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also the super mario series! |
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I find the atmosphere in half-life 2 astonishingly good. It's one of very few games which boasts a true element of space. |
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i still play games heavily. kind of offended you assume i dont ;) the games you listed are only a fraction of the current market. and around 75 percent of them STILL get shat on by "the casual gamer". nobody cares about nintendo anymore. do i? yes, i think gamecube is wonderful. but tell that to the kid who only plays FPS games and tactical espionage cause its "mature, not some stupid kiddies game lol wtf" beyond good and evil? incredible game, but nobody cared. wind waker? you wont believe how many gamers hate it for the fact that it looks "childish". but oh of course, the new zelda looks much better (even though, besides the graphical power of the gamecube, looks boring). paper mario is absolutely incredible. the original for N64 was one of my favorite rpgs, but its not "mature" enough for "real gamers". i could go on about the other games, and how they are great (aside from some you listed which i dont think are that great) but this is not what im talking about here. are a lot of those games amazing? absolutely, and as i stated, im not picking sides. i dont THINK "old" games are better. i think most of NES games are shit, in fact. even though everyone loves NES i still think its a terrible system. maybe a few good games but i never cared. there is no nostalgia for me. im just as nostalgic for silent hill and ICO as i am for secret of mana or terranigma. im not talking about the games here. theres plenty of amazing games. it boils down to this: half the games you listed, while they get good ratings and rave reviews, the casual (or next generation gamer) doesnt give a shit about them. did you miss my point or what? game companies are connected to gamers. current gamers are getting more and more into the realism of gaming, more and more into the "mature" side of gaming, that anything else is less. good games will still come out, absolutely. and its not set and stone that what i said will be the end all. but as stated, the way things are looking to me, its not very promising. |
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OK that's a great reply. Sorry for questioning your gamerness, your opinion just gels so poorly with mine that it causes mental chaos and I overlook some things. I can see why you're worried, but I still strongly disagree with you. First of all, while a lot of the games I listed are hidden gems, most of the really good ones are very well recieved, and most are at LEAST sold enough to encourage sequels/further progress in whatever area they're in. Even ICO is getting a sequel. ICO, for chrissakes. Otogi got a sequel, too. There's definitely an audience for these games. No, they'll never top sales charts, but don't worry about it, these games will always exist. I mean, I can see where you're coming from, but my point in listing all those great games, none of which have violence as a main selling point (GTA is arguable), is that the violence argument has been around for 15 years, and yet, gaming has only gotten better and better. Night Trap, Time Killers and Mortal Kombat didn't kill gaming in 1992. Doom's extreme violence did not hurt gaming. GTA3 was not the nail in the coffin of this gen. In fact, it was one of the trailblazers. Is gaming just going to suddenly hit a brick wall next gen? Hell no, the talent and technology is there to make great games, and so is the audience. Madden is always going to top the charts and violent dumb games are always going to shoved down our throats, but this is nothing new and it's nothing to worry about. I'm sure of it, I'm positive of it. I want to hold you, sing you a lullaby and assure you that it'll be all right. But I can't. Besides, I like mature games. And GTA is a great series. It has had some negative effects, but the games are brilliant and influential in other positive ways. I also agree that Zelda 2005 looks boring. I loved the cartoon style, this new one looks just like Ocarina of Time Version 2. Nintendo talks big, that's about it. |
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I think his point was that for every good game you point out in your post(s) (although I wouldn't agree on all of them), there are about 10 shit titles. noone was saying there isn't still very good games being produced, but as the games industry is becoming more and more prominent logically there is a shitload of derivative drivel being produced (not really a problem though, the online magazines seem to be doing well in weeding out the mediocre and the shitty games). you can see this development alone in EA becoming more and more bloated and swallowing up smaller companies and their titles/franchises. |
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maybe, but saying that it is all about gameplay these days is really a fallacy. I mean - we should be so lucky! |
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yeah its cool. im not COMPLETELY jaded, worry not! i like violent games too. i dig metal gear solid, half life, GTA is wonderful, etc. still, its been nagging me especially as of late. who knows eh |
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''I think his point was that for every good game you point out in your post(s) (although I wouldn't agree on all of them), there are about 10 shit titles.'' I believe that even if it's a noble, fair point, it's actually pretty moot. It's no different from 1982, 1990, 1998, or 2002. The ratio of shit to good stuff is as good now as ever, and I believe, even better. Go look at an old Electronic Gaming Monthly or something. I've got hundreds of them, and the first thing I notice when flipping through them is how much worthless shit there was, shit we never talk about anymore. We just don't remember the shovelware and shit, we only remember the good stuff. And the good stuff was not as good or as plentiful as it is now. I know EA is evil, and people are getting worked up about it, but they're not doing anything that Acclaim didn't do 15 years previous. |
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Anyone ever play Dirty Harry, Rambo or Total Recall for NES, or Fantastic Four for PS1? Or the Crow? NOTHING for today's systems is THAT shamelessly bad! |
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big rigs, man. big rigs what a game |
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But Big Rigs doesn't use a well known specific license, does it? There you go! Creativity, new intellectual property... huzzah! The people who made X-Men for NES were much more evil. |
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I think that the Playstation (1) period beats PS2 period, if only marginally. If you put together GC/Xbox/PS2/PC you might arguably reach the level of PS1(/N64) groundbreakingness. I'm talking of MGS, Final Fantasy7-8, Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy Tactics, Mario64, Zelda64s, Parappa, Castlevania SOTN, Gran Turismo1-2, Grandia, MoH, Tony Hawk, Silent Hill, Resident Evil1-3, Soul Reaver, Wipeout1-3, Tekken1-3... I think the leap was so magnificient then (from cartridges to CDs, mainly), that no "Emotion Engine" (or leap from CDs to DVDs) has yet managed to SUPRISE us (me) like that since. I mean: Silent Hill 2 didn't improve on the original that much as far as visuals went: Not as much as Silent Hill 1 improved on Alone in the Dark anyway! GT4 is maybe an inch cooler than GT1, but only an inch. MGS3 is an add-on to MGS1. (RE4 I haven't played.) Halo? Excellent production, but hardly innovative. Doom3? Same story. (The rest of XBox material is pretty worthless.) Then for the REAL masterpieces: (Ico I haven't played, alas.) Metroid Prime? Arguably one of the greatest games ever, but HIGHLY derivative of mid-90's IDSoftware material. GTA3/V.C./S.A.? Yea, killer material (literally), but, again, gameplay-wise more eclectic and syncretic than creative. I think GameCube's brilliance remains on the level of Dreamcast's brilliance: marginalized. But they are highly dependent on Miyamoto-San (i.e. 80's-90's innovation)! It's incredible. But maybe that's the way it's gotta be. People who have class can still purchase class. I'm just pointing out some obvious flaws in the "progressionist" theses. Two extra points: 1) Prince of Persia 2 improved on Sands of Time (especially in fighting, scope and effects) even though it contained some disagreeable stylistic issues on the side. Gothic rock or not. 2) The new Zelda, which I agree seems a step backwards as far as visual creativity is concerned (although we haven't seen much yet, have we??), will proba |
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...bly rock. I bet it will. |
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I highly agree with a lot of what CS2x and Ophecks have already said in this thread. Atmospheres in a game really do something for me. Not sure if it was mentioned (this thread did get a tad lengthy and uhm i skimmed over the end) but Shenmue I and II were very atmospheric to me. Although the game was a bit lacking in other parts, overall I found it to be great mainly because of the atmosphere it created. As far as what Ophecks said about sequels I agree. I couldn't care if sequels went into the triple digits just as long as they are done well (Although even pulling off one good sequel seems to be rather difficult) I really hope that by some ultra slim chance that Shenmue III is made and the story gets all wrapped up in the end. and as far as what BoxBob said, of course the 32/64 bit impact was greater. It was basically the first dive into 3D. It's going to be pretty hard to top that. And most of the sequels you've mentioned are some of the strongest running series. MGS, GT, RE, Zelda, Metroid, FF are all for the most part consistantly good. Just because it's not completely new doesn't mean it can't be just as good. |
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x-tomatic hit the nail on the head with mcgee's alice. for nes: solstice |
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thief 3 had the best atmoshpere of any game i've ever played! Only deus ex pushes it close. This comparison goes to show that graphics do not make good atmosphere...in my opinion its sound and design. For thief3 Eric Brosius did an amazing job...the music, ambieant and sound design blew me away. All this is showed to its best in the 'cradle' level....now infamous as the scariest virtual environment ever created!!! |
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Great posts all round here. Other reccommendations for games that suck you into wonderful worlds: Little Big Adventure 1 and 2, Outcast, the original Unreal, most Mario games, Broken Sword 1 and 2 and Monkey Island. I agree with disasemble in many ways, too. The games that have sucked me into their beautiful world this generation were largely ignored, and are often ignored, at the expense of the latest wrestling game or the millionth sequal in a boring franchise. Having a tender attention to detail and creating imaginative worlds isn't something that seems to sell games, unfortunately! But I guess it's the same in lots of genres. |
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too much to read right now, but I got to add that while it's a boring game, "The seventh guest" from back in the days had a hell of a lot of athmosphere. Lights off, headphones / speakers behind you and play. |
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