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i hate when i'm talking to a friend who's hardcore "real instruments" as he puts it and refuses to acknowledge that electronic music amounts to anything, says anyone can do it, etc etc. what's the best concise argument i can come up with? everything i ever try to say to make him understand electronic music always comes out sounding kind of stupid i'm sure i'm not the only one who runs into this problem when talking to people. what are some of your tactics? |
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Classical composers. They don't PLAY the whole fucking orchestra at once. They compose the music and conduct it. |
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Generally try not to bring it up. Most people will dismiss it completely and there is nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. You always do end up sounding stupid because no one should ever have to explain why they enjoy a certain music. So don't bother. |
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it's a matter of taste im afraid but: music is just moving air this way or the other |
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compare it to abstract art... abstract artists don't paint REAL, concrete objects but the form, beauty, emotion, originality (etc etc) is all still there. if they say that abstract art amounts to nothing, well they're a philistine |
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I know a couple of people like that, and I've made no progress trying to convince them otherwise, and I can't be bothered to try converting them. That's never a good idea, with any music. I've tried every argument in the book, even thoguh I shouldn't have... even stupid ones like ''guitars are no different than arranging in a program, those frets are a frickin' program. Do you think you invented that sound, that note? Fuck you, it's even less inventive than when I plunked a piano sample into Reason and adjusted the pitch and echo and tone to my liking''. The only way they'll ever change their stripes is if they hear a track that impresses them... and depending on the person, they may be actively trying NOT to like ''computerized bullshit'', anyway. |
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throughout the years I learned to give up, most of them don´t like electronic music and never will... they are musically polluted, that counts for 96% people who do listen to electronic music are the opposite is discovered, throught electronic music(IDM) I started to like more and more different styles of music, like Jazz, Classic, downtempo and many more in my opinion you have to be very open minded to give electronic music a chance, or the music should be brought to you in a way like most pop music is, if they broadcast it on the "normal" radio a lot of people will starting to like it, I almost know that for sure because my girlfriend started to like my music throughout the years.. |
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There are some electronic music only dorks around here though, I know that much. |
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people's reasons for liking music are usually least dependent on the music itself. it usually depends on who else likes it, who they hear it off, if its cool to like it, can they buy cheap fashion items to go with it etc some people are open-minded but most aren't and there's not that much that can change that |
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Most electronic music that you hear on TV, in video games, in movies, etc, is really shallow, a diluted sound. I know I wasn't fond of the idea of electronic music before I dug deeper. These people haven't dug deeper, and now they don't want to admit that they're wrong, that this is beautiful art. |
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Most people that I talk to class Bob Dylan as wacky experrimental shit. They all listen to music in the charrt, and it's not an issue forr me. |
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god i'm impressed by the usefulness and relativity of the replies. i should log on to xltronic at 3am all the time "...no one should ever have to explain why they enjoy a certain music..." damn good call. i should probably try this one. i was even talking about this earlier with my girlfriend (who is hardcore "real instruments" as well) and she was saying how it isn't hard to make things on computers; guitar/drum is much more skilled, etc. i think i made her mad when i told her that saying electronic music isn't music is like saying photography isn't art because you use a machine (she loves photography) :\ |
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when you say that you listen to drum'n'bass or techno people think you're some kind of e-munching gonzoid who goes clubbing every week in day-glo pants. no offence if that's what you like doing, but most people think thats all their is to electronic music |
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I don't discuss electronic music with people who doesn't care. If they use arguments like that, I just let it go. |
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She kind of has a point, I mean, it is physically more difficult to play a guitar than to click a mouse and turn some knobs. What annoys me is that there are so many bog-standard guitar-based bands around it's hard to believe. Bands where they just seem to have memorised the absolute fundamentals of music and get by on playing this uninspired bullshit. But these bands will generally get a lot more respect than even the best electronic artists simply because they are playing real instruments instead of "letting a computer do all the work". Anyway, it really is a futile argument, as Ophecks said - not many people are willing to spend the time looking further into electronic music, but that's fine with me. |
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It's not as if 'electronics' are used to calculate the music though is it? Someone still need's to compose the music regardless of what the instruments or in this case sounds that are used and how they do that isn't really an issue here. The arguments in favour of electronic music are so simple and true (because it's still music) that , like many here have pointed out, if the other party cannot accept them then why tf argue with 'em, they're already convinced. Futile and annoying although it can be enertaining. |
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who cares? i wouldn't bother trying to convince them. everyone's entitled to their opinion. imagine how boring it would be if we all thought the same way about life. besides, there's nothing worse than an evangelist. just enjoy what you enjoy rather than wasting your energy trying to get people to see the world through your eyes and ears. bob dylan WAS cutting edge for his day. And some time in the future, our kids listen to the records of our youth and laugh; saying, "yeah, it was pretty advanced for when it was made, but it sounds so dated. Now listen to this.." and I, for one, will be all ears.. |
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its even scarier to think there are folk out there who's idea of a good guitar band is U2 but hey also like "the electronic stuff ... like Pete Tong" *shivers anyway... fuck em. plenty of folks eat in mcdonalds too... its not my ass swelling up |
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a friend of mine is like that... he always tells me he could do it... yeah fucking right he could... such a stupid thing to say really... listen to some squarepusher and some shit like that and claim you can do it... kind of surprising cause this guy is really a good musician... he listens to classical music and is an excellent piano player, so you'd think he'd have a good ear to hear the complexity of some of this stuff... but no... |
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U2 IS a good guitar band... how can anyone deny that? |
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there are loads of guitar bands who are a helluva lot better, just there are electronic musicians a helluva lot better than pete tong |
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fair enough... but i'm saying they'd go no further than U2.... mogwai, tortoise, smashing pumkins, faith no more, no means not, wormholess etc. |
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I think it just comes down to how into listening to music you are... me, I listen to music all the time... so I think it was just natural that I would eventually want to delve deeper and find more intereting stuff... cause if you're always listening to music, you get used to what's on the radio and stuff, and you want something new... that's how I am... I think most people are medium listenings or lower... meaning they're not as crazy about it... so to them, pop music is fine... I do like pop music a lot, but it's not something I want to always listen too... but for some people it might be fine... shrug |
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say to him, "yeah sure. anyone can do it, but who says it'll be any good? Anyone can play the piano, but can they play well?" Also tell him that electronic music unites all music genres. You can mix any style you want and make it your own. The fact that it's electronic only means that it has been produced from the computer. Tell him that the computer is the new instrument of the 21st century. |
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Ha ha, I've just written a 2000 word essay on the subject. It's mainly about turntabilism, but it covers electronic music too. It should be up at scratchworx.com in the next week or so. I'll bump this and post a link when it's up. |
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my sister had the worst ear for music ever... its scarey. Its like she's programmed into herself that if its not on the most popular radio station, its crap..... i played her a bit of "music had the right...." and she just looked confused. Shes a friggin disgrace.... |
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well.. first of all: don't fall for rhetorics. when people argue about shit like that, they often try to diminish your arguments by saying you're using a word wrong and stuff like that.. just dismiss that as meaningless nitpicking (is that the word?), and blame them for evading the point at hand with semantic babble! |
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The best argument I can think of is that Electronic music as a whole is the only genre that even begins to approach accurately getting the "sound in the head" of the writer to tape. Think of how much more detail you can specify a track in even something as simple as Reason, compared to how a classical composer could. Even in a band where you know the other musicians well and have played with them for years, there's less actual precise control over it. Imagine if you kept asking them to replay the same part over and over, dozens of times, so the muting of the guitar strings occured exactly when you wanted (talking milliseconds here). Or with a drummer, asking them to constantly hit a cymbal at an exact point to get the exact pitch you wanted... You bandmates wouldn't take too kindly to it. |
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true, but then even with electronic music you have to be careful not to try and excercise total control, or you stifle the magic of accident. |
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also: make sure your friends aren't talking about gabba or plain tekkkkkkkkno. point out examples of bands that used electronics.. like ask them if they think Beach Boys are good, and if they say yes, remind them that beach boys were the first band ever to use a synth (a moog, actually) in their music (it's in that "wish they all could be californian" song). Tell them how they had to record one note in a chord at a time because the synth wasn't polyphonic! |
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People's taste in music doesn't really bother me at all. What bothers me is how these people have come to have the tastes they do, via the mainstream media and 'fashion' they have been either completely sold into what they like, or been told what they like because it is fashionable, rather than a musical upbringing which has given them a less biased view of music. I usually hate discussing musical interests with people because it just reminds me how money has corrupted art, and it's not as if they will have heard of who I like anyway. |
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much like a person that listens to something, doesn't like it, discover that the critics like it, and then listen to it until he gets used to it so that he can say "they're great!" and be in a cool crew! |
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best exxamples of early electronic music are on that classic BBC2 70's show "the old grey whistle test". It totally mixed traditional instruments with early electronic synths, moogs etc It was all about the music. When i saw the one with Biran Eno twiddling knobs with Roxy Music i was absolutely amazed. Plus they ner talked about the how it was done, it was just enjoyed. <- the crux |
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the crux indeed my friend. and for everyone else, beware the curse of intellectual snobbery. |
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Classical String insturments - rubbing horse hair on wood wind and brass - blowing into a tube drums - banging on animal skin piano - ancient form of typing electronic music - twiddling knobs, clicking mouse |
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In relation to Drunken Mastah's point, a hell of a lot of what we think of a "classical" music on TV/movie theme tracks (written specifically for a film/show) uses, as well as a full orchestra, a couple of synths to give a more full sound. Most people don't realise and assume it's all real instruments. Acrid: Yes, certainly, I find that as my production skills improve and I can "make" the sound I want a lot quicker, there are fewer happy accidents. I tend to do that sort of thing when learning a new synth etc. so staying on the learning curve helps keep it fresh. |
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