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 (nobody)...and 335 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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What do y'all think of the endless decontextualization and recontextualization of postmodern art, literature and music? Does it rob culture of significance by transforming cultural artifacts into something no more inherently meaningful than Pantone swatches or newspaper clippings? Reason I ask is electronic music does this lots by sampling and juxtaposing genres. Do you think this aspect of contemporary society places people in a metacognitive state where they're thinking about thinking rather than focusing on primary experience? |
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come back and post when you're dumb. |
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I did. |
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well i think the primary experiences are and will always still be there... so you chose.. and isn't the whoel act of thinking about what you're thinking a primary experience? |
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yes. |
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too many big words |
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it all starts somewhere.. and everything comes from something.. so how do you consider something to be primary? |
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i like music. |
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like.. okay.. someone sampled someone elses track who made the track from some other artists's track. |
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so is being inspired consider an non-primary experience? |
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Well there's a difference between a guy playing piano, another guy listening to it and writing about it, and a third guy reading the second guy's book and trying to hold it so a fourth guy will see that the third guy is reading an intellectual book about music. |
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plant a seed, watch it grow, pick the fruit, eat it raw or make it into a jelly. |
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it was meaningless to begin with. |
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the reason that post-modern art is the way it is is because the artists are just being honest with themselves... it's difficult to get past the fact that nothing can ever be truly valuable or original in (anything remotely approaching) a material sense... by opening branches of dialogue with our surroundings both spatial (as in other things around us now), and temporal (as in other things from other times), i think that a lot of this kind of art implies a sense of collectivity... |
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i see no difference. everything is taken from something.. does it really matter what form it's conveyed into? NO. it's all the same. some is just more obvious then others.. |
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I'm not talking about inspiration at all - I'm talking about a style of artistic expression that emphasizes its nature as a collection of loosely associated cut and paste nuggets, rather than presenting itself as an integrated whole. |
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having be obvious is equal to the effort of it not being obvious. |
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Get thee behind me, nihilist! |
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but the integrated whole IS cut and paste nuggets! |
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I think it engenders a style of self-conscious consciousness best described as neurosis. |
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I'm not a nihilist. |
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self-conscious of one's inability to be anything but apart of the swirling mass of oneness that is the universe... people talk about post-structuralism and post-modernity like they're condemning... i feel the opposite way... |
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Wouldn't you agreee, though, there's a difference between an oil painting and a collage? |
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mmyes, just as much as there is a difference between an oilpainting and an acrylic painting.. when I see a collage, I do see all the parts but I see the work as something new, all parts forming something new. so not decontextualization, but rather recontextualization. |
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I like this thread, also, being a fan of electronic music, I've grown to appreciate the collage. Life is a collage anyway. |
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*Bookmarks when when Most Poncey Thread of 2004 award comes up in next XLT Awards* |
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the world is one giant heterogeneous collage of homogeneous beauty... which is to say that it isn't hetero at all... it's all part and parcel of an all encompassing beauty that our rational representation systems can't (consciously) reflect |
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you do that when when the time comes.. :P |
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there's only a difference because you don't know the copy and pastes the oil painter used. so doesn't that just make you ignorant to their art? |
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i'm sure the oil painter used as much references and inspirations as the collage do'er used. you just aren't aware of them. and being unaware of them and being aware of them is EQUAL. okay? |
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it's like.. using apples to make a pie or using them to put in a pretty basket. either way, you're using the apples.. they just appear in different forms. haha.. okay that was odd. |
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what about an oil painting of an apple? what do you think of that? |
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there's only a difference because you don't know the copy and pastes the oil painter used. Exactly - and that is why the collage emphasizes fragmentation in the eye of the beholder (by showing the seams you are drawn to think of the different sources and how they are juxtaposed) while the oil painting emphasizes unity and integration - unless of course it's an oil painting of a collage. :D |
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Well I'll meet you here at the award ceremony, alex! |
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I will be avidly watching your threads for the slightest hint of ponciness. |
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I will have a poncy acceptance speech at theready, Paul! "Accept/Concept: an essay on accepting and conceptualization of reality in general" |
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listen here mister. okay .. for example.. my friend is an artist and i know him very well.. and when i see his work i know excatly where he got the inspiration for what he did.. so when i see it i see all the things he got inspired by. same with a collage .. if you've seen the photos or whatever before, then you'll know the artists inspiration for the piece... but if it's fill of photos you're not familiar with.. then it'll seem more 'original' but.. everything's inspired from something.. it just depends if you know the inspiration or not. so it has nothign to do with the artists.. just your knowledge. |
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yes, but I see Fleet's point. the reference is much more direct - whereas a painter will see an image, remember it and then integrate it into his painting, in a collage we see the image itself. ..but what is the point of all this? |
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the painting of the apple! |
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mmmmmmhhhhh .........decontextualization!! |
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ah. okay. someone make a painting of an apple and we can all go to sleep. |
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i think it is interesting, work that openly displays it's construction, rather than attempt to disguise it's process. Art of course is artifice so to attempt to blow that open is, interesting. I guess it's a lot to do with phisolophical viewpoints of who we are and our place in the world. We're all bits of collage, but who dares to brazenly show off their received ideas and appropriations? |
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..but what is the point of all this? I dunno. I guess it reminds me of tendencies in programming - code reuse, using libraries and classes someone else created to make another thing without necessarily understanding the innards of libraries and classes that one is building with. And that's a good thing in programming because you don't have to reinvent the wheel. But in artistic terms, a work created by cutting up and juxtaposing selections from the old testament, the Aeneid, the Willy Wonka script, fashion magazines and government pamphlets isn't the same thing as a novel written "the hard way". |
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it's silly to compare a collage to a novel. you twit! |
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they both have their merits you cheeky monkey |
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Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? |
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* shhh * trolling |
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shall I fuckin knock yer head off!? |
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oooh, a STORMY summer's day! But really, I don't see why I can't compare collage to literature, with authors like Kathy Acker who cut up and rearrange source texts - |
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they're different media. one uses language, the other mainly imagery. both have their own dramaturgical rules. it's rather pointless to compare them, because in the end they work on different levels. |
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