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Tips I wish somebody had told me, if you guys want more, let me know by posting your thoughts or whatever... hope this helps ------------- Compression is wonderful. I've heard it is the only effect you can never have too much of if you do it right... getting to know it requires a lot of experimentation, but it's well worth it in the end. What does compression do? Compression takes the really loud noise in your song and lowers the decibels on it making it sound closer to the other sounds you have. It allows you to hear more of the nuances that goes on, the softer sounds seem to be louder because after compressing the loud sounds you raise the volume of the part until it sounds in line again. So we come to the first part... clean up your individual tracks before adding compression. With compression you will hear many more of the little things then you did before. With a simple line this won't make much of a difference, like a basic drum line, but with complicated synths you'll hear a lot more. Details are important before adding compression. Traditionally this means EQ, Reverb, and any other effects are done before the final compression. Experimenting with this is fun, different order of effects produces much different results, but I won't get into that now. Creating a clean track also means splitting into more tracks if you have some that are too complicated. Bass drum, snare, hats should all be on separate lines (assuming you have the processing power) and compressed separately. Each one requires something a little bit different... |
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then again... "The current trendy thing is compression, compression by the ton, especially if it comes from a tube limiter. Wow. It doesn't matter how awful the recording is, as long as it goes through a tube limiter, somebody will claim it sounds "warm," or maybe even "punchy." They might even compare it to the Beatles. I want to find the guy that invented compression and tear his liver out. I hate it. It makes everything sound like a beer commercial." -- Steve Albini |
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cool. thanks Sanguine. i just finished doing basic master on a new song in wave lab. i find putting the threshold between -8 and -12db attack between 0.01 and 10ms and release between 30-50ms as well as removeing sub frequencies cut-off at around 30 hertz and then fiddling with the gain to get the left and right averages to between -5 and -6db and the average for the track between -10 and -13 ( i aim for -12 on all my songs, make em loud and crunchy!) If you have any tips that could help me in this basic little formula, lay on me. cheers! |
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good thread... keep em comin... cie jiks mawp: what's your name mean? |
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I'm going to focus on drums for the beginning since it easily illustrates some of the concepts I had a lot of trouble with... Compression on the individual tracks helps bring out the parts you want to bring up, making the drums punchier and cleaning up the melody sounds. Compression on the overall track helps make it seem like a cohesive whole. Starting with individual tracks: The attack on the compressor tells you when to start compressing, this is how you keep peaks in the drums and other sounds. A short attack means you're cutting the peaks very quickly... this is the most common problem I've seen with compression not making the piece sound better but making it sound too "flat." You lose the peaks if the attack is set too low (below 5ms you'll hear the difference from say 20ms) and things will start to bleed together more. You can create very punchy drums this way. The compression kicks in after the attack time and stays until the release time. So the sound before the attack stays loud, after the attack is done the compression kicks in and the peaks that aren't the punchy part are dropped out. Experimenting with the attack and the ratio you can see the extremes and eventually get the part of the sound emphasized that you want. The ratio and threshold together tell how much the sound is dropped. A 1:4 compression means the sound above the threshold is reduced to 25%. So if we have a peak of 8dB above the threshold it's reduced to 2dB above the threshold. At 1:8 compression it would be reduced to 1dB above. |
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(yeah the numbers are backwards in the above post, change 1:4 and 1:8 to 4:1 and 8:1 respectively) So if you want a punchy snare, a low attack (maybe 10ms or so) means the beginning of the snare will be heavy. A slight ratio of compression, 4:1 or so and a threshold depending on the sound (use your ear) will emphasize the beginning heavily and kick the snare sound up quite a bit. You'll notice this much more on sounds that aren't punchy to begin with if you put a higher ratio, effectively shaping it like you would with a volume envelope. I'd recommend doing exactly that if you find you need a LOT of compression to achieve the desired effect, go back and fiddle with the wave itself and come back to compressing it later. The same with bass drums You can get a punchy start to a bass sound with the same short attack, then depending on how loud you want the rest of the bass in comparison, a small ratio of 2:1 or so if you want a steady bass sound on the peaks, or something harder (6:1 or higher) if you want something else to be the focus. Let's say you have a heavy bass line that's carrying the track and want it to be the focus. You might put a shallow ratio of 2:1 on it so it stands out through the sound and push up the ratio of other sounds in the same Hz range (like the bass drum) so they don't conflict, taking out part of the muddiness. Same with melodies in the high ranges and mid ranges, adjust the settings based on other sounds that are in the same range. That's the big thing you're looking for, using compression to separate the sounds and make certain things come out |
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this thread = Fav+ |
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try to use compr1ession only if neccesary... as r40f pointed out, it is very easy to suck life away from you track by removing any kind of dynamics from it and adding distortion... a friend of mine makes dance, jungle, breakcore all that, he find it handy to have a big mono/multi-band compressor on his master track, with pretty strong settings, for every track he's doing, sure it pump up the fuck out of his tracks but they effectively all sounds a bit the same, and all have like 1dB of dynamics,wich is frankly aweful after 1 minutes of listening to the track when possible try to make drums louder without (over)compressing them as much as possible, same for you instruments |
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www.computermusic.co.uk there you go ... |
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Compression Compression is easy to understand, even if it is hard to explain. it literally does what it's called; it compresses audio level. in short, it makes the difference between the highs and lows in a sound smaller. it works by recognizing peaks in sound level and making them less extreme, so that in the end result, the peak level is less high. the easy explanation - compression takes really loud peaks and makes them softer so you can make the whole sound louder ;) A typical compressor has a threshold, compression ratio, attack, release and output amplifier. Threshold the threshold is a sound level measured in decibels, the level at which the compressor starts going about its business of compressing. set the threshold lower and the compression applies to more of the sound, set it higher and only the higher of the peaks will be affected. Compression ratio Compression ratio is the ratio of the change in output level in dB to the change in input level above the threshold value. it determines how much compression is applied to sound that comes in above the threshold level. basically, the amount of decibels above the threshold on input is divided by the ratio on output (for 5:1 ratio divide by 5, for weird ratios like 7:3, use your high school math). in english this means if a certain sound is 8dB above the threshold and the ratio is 4:1, the sound when it comes out of the compressor will be 2dB above the threshold. Attack The attack, measured in milliseconds or decibels per second (dB/s), is the speed at which the compressor starts compressing after it detects sound above the threshold level. a fast attack will result in more transient sounds (ie. fast snare and kick hits) being compressed while a slow attack will let at least some of the initial hit of a transient sound go through uncompressed. |
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For synths it's much more based on what you want out of the sound. I use compression usually when I find the synth sound I'm using crosses a large dynamic range and the lower parts get swallowed up by the rest of the piece. Especially with some VST or MIDI instruments now that have velocity dependant functions you get a totally different sound with a lower volume that could be absoluely awesome, but you can barely hear it. This is where compression comes in... With drums, and a fairly quick attack, we were looking to create punch. With a synth that you don't want a more punchy sound (pads, long attack envelopes, etc) you can drop the attack to the lowest it will go (0.1ms is a good bet) and throw the compression on from the beginning with a long release. With a higher ratio (8:1 and above) and a lower threshold you can lower the louder portion of the piece to the more hidden softer parts. This means all the louder parts will now sound as soft as the softer parts... but the softer parts shouldn't change. Now kick up the entire track to be in line with where it was before and viola, you can now hear the softer parts. |
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it is very easy to suck life away from you track by removing any kind of dynamics from it... Exactly. |
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damn! nevermind the last link. |
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or go here oh and drunkenmastah if you do, do it ;) |
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GET MONITORS BEFORE STARTING TWIDDLING AROUND WITH COMPRESSION :P |
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If you're going to quote an article, give them credit please... I'm trying to put this in my own words Overcompression is easy to get and make the entire track sound too dance oriented, the drums too punchy, etc, etc, etc... it all depends on what you're going for. The key is subtlety. I'm giving recommendations for what you're LISTENING to instead of preset numbers. You need to experiment with these values and see what they do. Make a track that's jungle/breakbeat/house and make the drums punchy. Fool with compression until you get it good Do the same for something ambient Then for something in between That's the only way to learn Compression can ALWAYS help a track, I would say just the opposite, use it liberally, but subtlely. It's very, very difficult to know when you're overdoing it. So on the same token, have other people listen to your stuff and help master. That's the only way you'll learn, when you have other people pointing it out who haven't had their ear attuned to what's going on. Or at very least put the track aside for a week minimum and work on other stuff then come back to master |
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thousand of peoples mentioned this tips before ... there are a bunch of books about mastering, mixdown, audioprocessing and so on ... |
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Which brings us to overall compression... this is where sucking the life from the track is frequently overdone. I recommend using a multiband compressor for overall compression, they are fabulous but VERY difficult to use... I will address these when I'm more comfortable myself. The "professional" way to compress a track with normal compression is to split the track into it's respective Hz bands. Low, medium and high (or more depending on how complicated the track is) and compress each separately. This is so you can hear what is making the track muddy and help shape it down, bring out the parts you want to bring out. For overall compression it's rare to use anything over 2:1, I usually end up using between 1.2:1 to about 1.4:1 depending on how good the mastering was up until then. This is just the last cleaning of the sound and making everything sound like a cohesive whole. Since you've already done the punchy part this is a shorter attack and a long release, just shaping the peaks subtlely so you can raise the overall volume with a maximizer afterwards and then clip the peaks with a limiter (Waves L1/L2 or something similar) If you have any questions, this is where to post them, I'll check back and try and help out |
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yes, yes.. compression... the art which is uncomprehensive and out-of-reach until you get monitors. what I would like to know, is how I'm supposed to eq a guitar when a bass and a piano is playing at the same time. also: how the bass and piano should be eq'd for best results. |
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Yup, but some people don't have books and this is what the message board is for... post links to good articles that help, post your own tips I want to hear how people misused compression and got interesting effects (I'll throw a couple examples up later) and how they figured out how to use it better. What insights they've had or what they're having trouble with. The article format is just an introduction |
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Mic placement or just EQ after recording onto a single track? I don't envy you... I've recorded some live stuff lately and had a devil of a time mastering it, I might post some tracks that a vocalist/guitarist and I mastered later as examples |
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EQ after recording. |
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Difficult... almost impossible to fix a whole lot... separate into bands, compress by isolating the guitar, piano, and bass separately as best you can with three separate tracks (using high/low filters or notch or bandwidth or whatever) Better to have separate mics and have three tracks with some very careful mic placement Best to record each separately and overdub ... wish I had the money and time to do that |
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yes, I do have separate tracks for each instrument. they're not recorded all at once, and I don't really want to "fix" anything, 'cause nothing is broken.. I just want to stop frequencies from the guitar to interfer with the piano and the bass, and so-on... |
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check the project studio handbook! http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm (all you need to know about compression, equalizing, limiting, dithering, mastering, monitoring...) |
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yeah, I've read a few articles there, but they generally tell me to do stuff with equipment I don't have.. and the techniques seem to be un-transferrable to what i DO have... |
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Zephyr Twin: It is a lake in Japan. mixing is about creating space for all the instruments in the mix. Drunken: Expriment with panning and levels. Its amazing what can be done just by placing similiar freqs on different sides. |
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what equipment are you using? :) You will need some good monitors to start with... |
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yeah, I pan A LOT! (not applicable to the older tracks, which are the only tracks I currently have online...) |
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i'm going to put a track online. continue sanguine your words are good. |
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I'll write up something on EQ later and some problems I've had when overdoing it, and will answer the question more fully then. (Plus I'm not really sure how to answer it well and will have to think about it, experiment and maybe do some research) |
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yes, that will be muchly appreciated.. as much as the previous words in this thread (which at this very moment are being memorized for later application at the home studio). |
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I think I used compression once, back in 1973 |
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Compression depends on the musical style aphex uses alot of the stuff but it kills dynamics - so everything comes at you with the same intensity - like a brick wall in more subtle or ambient tracks - use a little compression or limiting so the volume and intensity within the track rises and falls bringing the listener different dimensions classical music does not use much if any compression |
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I think compression is good when used on "static" drums... programmed drums which you want to sound EVEN MORE programmed... like, it makes the hihats as loud as the snare, and it really makes it sound like the hihats go "1, 2!!!, 3, 4!!!" if kick is on 1 and snare is on 3. |
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"in more subtle or ambient tracks - use a little compression or limiting" Bang on. Compressors aren't just to make things louder- they're also limiters to reduce the loud bits! My own thoughts: If you have a whole part that is quiet (eg a sample that has low volume throughout), consider normalising it, rather than just adding a lot of compression. I've heard people talk about normalisation as if it's some poor cousin of compression, that has no place in modern music production. They're both valid tools and you need to learn to recognise which one is more appropriate in certain situations. Heavy compression throughout can be good for things like drum and bass, but in most styles of music it sounds too in your face. I agree you definately want seperate compression for each drum part. One of my main complaints with Reason is that the built in compressor is so weak, but exporting each drum element seperately and then compressing in Wavelab/Nuendo/whatever is a huge chore. |
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you know that you can connect separate effects to each channel of the redrum drum-machine, right? just tab to the backside and connect it to the plugs on the drum you want to affect with the effect... |
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I know, but the problem with that is that Reason's compressor is pretty weak (compared to say, PSP Vintagewarmer). So, instead of just having a seperate compressor for each drum sound (all rejoined with a second mixer) and then back into the main mixer as one channel, sometimes it's neccessary to render off each part as a wav, FX/compress seperately and then resequence them in Ableton Live/Floops. It's such a boring (time consuming too,) job that I usually try to avoid doing it by just programming the drums a bit more carefully (Dr. Rex files tend to be alright as they're already reasonably compressed/sufficiently loud in most cases) to compensate. BTW You decided on a mixer/carts yet? :) |
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well.. I seem set on the ortofons. The mixer... I don't know. I'll buy what Ralph Myerz recommends me (or one of those recommended to me in the thread about the matrix3. I think that you guys probably are right about not getting it if I want to scratch.. I'll buy another mixer for the extra channel, and use a straight-up dj-mixer, as you suggested...)... either that, or I'll check what mixer Nas' dj (I'M GOING TO A NAS CONCERT!!!) is using if he's scratching... |
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thanks everyone! and thanks for the great links.... |
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OK. The topic 'Mastering tips #1: Compression ' has been added to your favorites You are now being transferred back to the topic, otherwise click here |
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nice thread. any music-maker should put it in their favs! |
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.. i wish i had some worthwhile knowledge to contribute to this, though..... |
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i've been kinda experimenting with compression for the last few months. i've been recently fiddling with using short attack (less than 1ms) on the full mixdown. The result is that my percussion which tends to give me the most clipping problems is compressed a bit while all the synths are raised. it gives this sort of wall of sound kinda effect. i usually leave the amount of compresion pretty high (around 7:1) but i carefully adjust the threshold so that the actual amount of compression never goes below about -4 on the meter. anything past about the -4 to -6 area squashes it and takes away the snap. |
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I am now experimenting with reverse compression... details to follow eventually |
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The best way to figure out compression is to use hardware. I always bang on about how hardware is better than software for almost everything, and compression is definately one of them. Get a unit with knobs on, and play a loop into it, set to continuous looping. Now twiddle the knobs until you know what they do. You should learn how to use it. It is VERY useful if you can use it correctly. Compression is used by ALL artists. It is the most useful effect, although as an 'effect' is is limited, but as an 'utility' effect, it is excellent for changing something from a recorded sound to a 'polished' sound. In the olden days, compression was even performed by humans, on classical music! When recording music, the engineer would scan through the sheet music, and ride the faders to compensate for loud/quiet pieces.i.e. compression. Please note; compression generally follows the following formula: ->garbage in ->[COMPRESS]->polished garbage out-> i.e. you put crap in, and you will still get a fairly crappy signal out. Yeah, it can be made to sound better, but generally on a track level compression is used for mastering, so the track should be done for all intents and purposes before compressing the whole thing. However, you can apply compression throughout, if, for example, using multiple recordings to subtle effect, to equal out the amplitudes of everything, but again this will be utalitarian, with small ratios and modest use. Or you could use it on individual sounds in a mix, i.e. compress your guitar/drum machine to get a different sound.This is less of a utilty function, since with more extreme settings, and a more constant source (compared to a mixdown), one can spice up a sound more than just 'polish' it. So basically, learn how to use it, cos its useful. Oh and get a hardware compressor. Hint Behringer 1u rack ones are cheap and actually good,( considering its behringer). |
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a good mastering tool is iZotope - Ozone 2.0 for the home user |
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yeah, but hardware is expensive. and me=poor. |
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I am using Sream 4 with 'tape' setting - it gives really nice punch to drums. Yes, compressor comp-01 (Reason 2.5) is little shitty, it requires lot of focus to set it properly, and the results might be miserable. Can anybody recommend me good dx/vst multiband compressor? |
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