 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 Now online (1)recycle ...and 412 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614083 Today 3 Topics 127542 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
in work today, my work collegue said that the kind of music i listen to and the stuff i make isn't music because it's cheating - he said he could do the same kind of stuff, and even a kid could do it until i offered him to have a go on my laptop and use Reason to make a bass drum using Subtractor, and compressing it so it sounds decent. fucking people who can't at least appreciate that electronically based music is just as complex and skilled (if not more so) than "traditionally" created music....they really do need educating the thing is, you try to tell them and they won't listen to you...they refuse to admit it. fucking luddites |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeah i know... theyre like 'thats so easy, the machine does it for you!' and then they try it and use presets and just put 4 notes together and are like 'there'/.. so i hit them. fucking retards. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Some people are scared of change or scared because they dont understand even scared of the fact that your music could be better than theres. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeh, he said "Drums? I can make drums on a keyboard" and i said "yeh, but i'm making them FROM SCRATCH on a SYNTHESIZER. Keyboards are preset waveforms, you don't have hardly any control over how it sounds" but he couldn't grasp the fact that synths are a million times better than a keyboard fucking retard |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeh but this guy doesn't have any interest in music production/creation as an example of how good synths are, there was some shitty fucking muzak on the telephone, and i said "do you reckon that's a real piano i there?" he said yes "no, that's a synth" "no its not, thats a real piano....you can't tell if its real or not just by listening to it" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! W A N K E R |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Sounds like your wasting your breath on this narrow minded mo fo. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I'm not being funny but your friend is mostly right. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
please elaborate - how is he right? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
No he is wrong. People who know nothing about computer music and slat it are arseholes. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well why should I be any more impressed that you have made synthesised drum sounds when the final output of those sounds is no different than the loops on a playstation music production program could manage? Would a guitar track be any better in the eyes of others because you sat down and made the guitar yourself? You may feel more proud but it doesn't mean people should appreciate your music any more because of it. Music is only as good as the person who makes it and it is a lot easier to go from no musical background to producing electronic music than it is to learn a traditional instrument. blah blah blah...I'm tired now. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
If I wanted an opinion from an arsehole I would have farted. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
on some points you're right, but you're taking it out of context - this guy was basically saying it's easy to do and that he could do it in five mins he said that it's not music because it's cheating it's not cheating if electronic music is cheating, then so is traditional music too because loads of people have used wah-wah pedels on guitars, loads of people have used two drummers in their tracks, loads of people have double tracked their vocals (and i dont mean just copying the waveform and offsetting it, i mean REAL double tracking- recording on tape twice) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Good points. Kinda agree in a way but if someone made a track on some PSOne programme I definitely wouldn't rate them as a music creator vs someone who did a similar track in VST. Wouldn't enjoy it less but wouldn't rate the person who did it that highly. I guess it all depends. I know I play all my music and programme all of it. I use some samples so I guess thats not strictly speaking my doing. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
*chortle* there's love there, I think :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
There are very few tracks posted on this board that couldn't be repicated with a bottom end loop based package. It would be possible to sit someone down in front of Reason and let them make a track and it could sound pretty decent. That needlefix track I made was after about 3 hours use of Reason...from scratch...with no musical background whatsoever. I could never have done anything on another instrument in that short space of time. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I got more respect for people's tracks if I know they haven't used some loop programme. I just don't rate it that much. Wouldn't disregard it but I've seen people screw around with a track in 5 secs in loop programs and well basically i got no respect for it because it takes no skill. Mind you I think you've really hit on something here which is quite significant and pointed. That being a (good) track is a (good) track and its not ultimately relevant how its made. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
so you're telling me you had no prior knowledge of Music Technology or Sound Synthesis? You understood what ADSR envelopes are and what they can do when you put them on filters, modulation, amplifer etc? you knew about CV/Gate connections, you knew that if you wan reverb on an instrument you should really put it on an effects send on the desk (although like anything with music there are no rules as to how you route stuff, just as long as it sounds how you want it to sound) ? to be honest, i don't think anyone could do anything substantial in Reason without having at least some prior knowledge of Music Tech i mean, ok yeah....you can use presets fine...you're right. all you need do is plug in a controller keyboard and you're set. point. click. play notes on white key thingies while you're in record mode. listen back. marvel at your notes being played back to you. all well and good. but my point is that most people whoh are making music wanna make thieir stuff unique, and they don't wanna be arseing around with presets because people will instantly know how they got that sound. i mean, ok with stuff like 303's and 101's/202's that's different. but mostly (i think anyways) people wanna make music that is unique |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
So i think that music is music, i play various instrements and i write music using computer software i think that there isn't any real difference really they are very different skills and you have to approach them differently. Anyway the point is that to be good at it you have to pratcice at it. Anyone who think that making music with computers is easy, well, it is easier to get started and maybe write some tracks which sound ok but when you get down to the nitty gritty it is no easier to learning to play an instrement. The process is different but the philosophy is the same. Does that make sense? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
No I knew nothing at all...I pissed about changing things to see how it sounds (similar to what I do now) but I had complete ZERO musical knowledge either traditional or computer based when I made that track. I figure stuff out quickly just played until I liked the sound of it..but I could have posted that track and people wouldn't have known I had only had three hours with the package. A hell of a lot of established artists use nothing but presets. I use them myself sometimes. I want to make tunes to listen to an enjoy...not be a sound engineer. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Roger Waters said something like, "Just because you give a guy a guitar, doesn't make him Eric Clapton." |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Roy Walker said "Just say what you see" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
oscillik: if electronic music is cheating, then so is traditional music too because loads of people have used wah-wah pedels on guitars, loads of people have used two drummers in their tracks, loads of people have double tracked their vocals (and i dont mean just copying the waveform and offsetting it, i mean REAL double tracking- recording on tape twice) in my college there's quite a few guy's who think their music is better than mine, i dont argue because everyone has their preferances but when it's a dance maniac {and in my opinion dance is the easiest genre to make because i dont even listen to dance and i can knock up a half decent dance track in under an hour} who's sitting there telling me i'm cheating because i'm not making my own drum kit using my own samples i'm using patches/samples in reason and messing with them until they sound totaly different but he says thats still cheating, and a guitar maniac who not only uses a wah wah pedal, he has a "pod" so he can add all sort's of shit to his guitar! effect after effect, and signal processors.. it pisses me off |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i understand that a good track is a good track hell, i use presets too sometimes, but i personally try to make my stuff sound as unique as possible (sonically that is). i'm proud that i know what all the stuff on the front and back of a synth does, i'm proud that i got to use a Yamaha O2R digital desk, i'm proud to be able to listen to some music on the TV and have a pretty good guess at how it's been processed and where there's samples and where there's someone miming and shit like that is that really bad of me? i know i can be a bit elitist sometimes, but i just feel proud of the fact that i know about Music Tech and Computers, and how they work...what they're capable of and so on |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
for the music I've made I have had no musical training - in some ways it has halted me, in other ways it has helped. I agree with Lee that's it easy to start making music on computers - that is, if you want to make "songs". if you want to make something more complex, or more interesting, you'll have to invest quite some time. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that's all fine, but in the end it's about effect - does it sound like you want it to sound? why would it be better to make a sound from scratch than using a preset that does exactly the same? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i too have no musical training (not as in a classical sense, or melodic or anything). i can't play a keyboard properly.......i know where the notes are and shit, i just can't play stuff like chords....but i'm trying to learn, because if i wanna be able to perform live i'm gonna need to be able to trigger stuff live! but i've spent since 1998 learning as much as i can about Music Tech i've been fucking around with computers (Atari, PC, Mac) since i was 13, so i've got a good base in that stuff...i'm technically minded enough to continue progressing with different techniques and stuff i just need to be able to read sheet music on the fly, and to be able to play chords and shit live :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
there are accomplished musicians, and there are crappy ones and they all use different techniques and tools. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
you're right about that mate - i have in the past gotten a preset.....added distortion, unison, compressed it, eq, compressed again etc etc etc fucked with freq, res, amp ADSR ect just so i can get the right sound there's nothing wrong with that, but my point is that i know how to tweak those settings proficiently whereas my work collegue would be tweaking "blindly"....he wouldn't understand the signal flow in the synth, that the waveform goes through certain parts of the synth before it gets to another, for example the signal goes through the filter before it gets to the amp section stuff like that do you get what i mean? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Its all about will too. If you have the will to make electronic music then you'll do it. I know people who can play the piano ok or whatever but have no idea how to make a proper track. Just don't really have the imagination or skills to understand the electronic realm. Probably the fact is that they don't have a strong will to understand it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
This thread is full of wrongheaded rubbish. Cleanse the earth with flame. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
some people are simply like that. you just have to let it go, and let their meanderings be part of your drive to continue, and hopefully push people into accepting it. we are the revolution - we just haven't found the manpower yet. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
woah wise words :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
a computer is a musical instrument and it takes time to learn to play it at a high degree of skill. some people spend years learning to play the saxaphone or the piano, i spent that time learning to program tracks. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
the simple thing is a good track is a good track if you spent 2mins making it or 5yrs nothing makes electronica better than acoustic/guitar and visa-versa complex does not = good all the time |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeh but acoustic/guitar peeps always make out that their music is superior that electronia is what a kid can do, and that's bullshit just as much skill and effort go into both genres |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
No one ever hears a sculptor having a go at a painter for using a brush.................. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
thats what i said i play guitar and i can program beats blah blah blah when i listen to eric clapton playing guitar i think fuck ive got along way to go and the same for programming like >[] im like a coffee stain on his akai |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
heheh coffee stain on his Akai!! :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
the whole guitars and "normal" vocals = good thing is a conspiracy thought up by mtv and the record labels who can't find an angle to sell something liek twin to 13 yr old girls. anyone who buys into it is obviously one of the "music is entertainment, not art" crowd. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
mtv!? they're selling the hell out of watereddown "idm"like sounds!! for example: "toxic" by B. Spears. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
that track is a joke!!!!!!! it's britney's attempt (or should i say her producer, she has no input whatsoever!) at copying madonna madonna in turn is well known to have wanted to work with Aphex, saying his stuff sounds "cool" so she's most probably copying AFX so toxic is twice removed from idm! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
exactly my point. they cant sell something like twin to 13 year old girls, so they try to make it pop. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
in my experience, it's easier to sound good on an accoustic guitar than on an electric. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
sorry i think i mis-worded my post i didn't mean the comparison between electric and acoustic guitar, i meant the comparison between electronic based music and tradtional music, you know 5-piece band kinda stuff :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
my point was, what now is seen as pop has little to do with guitars and/or normal unprocessed vocals. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeah, i was just trying to further illustrate that adding technology to music makes it more difficult to produce in many instances. more tools means more required knowledge. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i wouldn't be so sure mate..........some of that stuff is still pop look at busted (well, ok, they've most likely been using vocal harmonising stuff to modify vocals, but hey!) and there's The Darkness now no-one can deny that these guys aren't pop! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yes you're right - adding technology can be a pain, especially if you're trying to integrate the traditional with electronic....you need techs on hand, to operate the stuff, and you need to make sure everything is set up properly |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i don't think it's fair to downplay the amount of musical and technical proficiency it takes to make Pop music. Not just anybody can make a record that will sell a million copies. I know none of you have done it.. not yet anyway. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
yeah there's no doubt that some of it does take a lot of effort, but some of it doesn't like toxic but the reason i hate pop so much is that they make out that THEY make the music, when it's plainly obvious that they have hardly any input whatsoever and they're just puppets for the label |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
