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 (nobody)...and 327 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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I saw something about a new MS-20 hardware controller for the MS-20 softsynth (along with softsynths of the Wavestation and Poly-61). Anyone seen this? It's supposedly 85% of the original size. The real MS-20 is quite bulky. (too tired to search now..it's 2AM, I'm going to bed) |
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84% actually :P From what I can gather it is actually made by Korg rather than just licensed by them, so hopefully it should be pretty good. The (real) Ms-20 is probably my favourite synth for bass and the filter on it is recognised as one of the best sounding ever. If this is an accurate reproduction I might just buy one... |
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I don't have it but I've heard the controller is made out of cheap plastic and that it probably won't last very long because you have to keep shuving and pulling out patch cables....I could be wrong though |
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It will be interesting to see the reviews. I don't have any room for one now though. I suppose the plastic feeling is the same as on the MikroKorg. The price seems to be about the same anyway. I've been playing around with the new Nord G2 editor. You can download and try it without the G2. The new shaper LFOs got me drooling all over. Oh the possibilities.. |
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There is a review of it in April's Future Music magazine. Incase you don't know, it is a harware controller for 3 soft synths, the korg ms20, polysix and wavestation. The ms20 is an old analogue beast which I was going to buy, until I realised it was actually crap. Its alright I suppose, nice filter, cliched sounds. The polysix is relativly unknown, although can produce sounds which may or may not be dissimmilar to other sounds. The wavestation can produce very lush pads and textures. It uses vector synthesis, which is basically where you take multiple wavetables (like samples) and use a joystick (or preset) to morph between them to create sweeping effects and all sorts of digital lovelyness. The whole thing(3softsynths and fake ms20 style controller), is £400, whereas you can pick up a real ms20 for about £700. You decide. |
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You're kidding, right? "The ms20 is an old analogue beast which I was going to buy, until I realised it was actually crap." I thought Mr. Oizo's "Analog Worms Attack" would of been right up your street... |
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Sorry_SpaceBar_Is_Fucked! I_got_to_playaround_with_the_Korg_Legacy_at_the_wembley_Sou nd_expo_last_month. It_Sounds_The_Tits_and_the_controller_looks_cool._But_It-wo uld_be_very_hard_to_perform_with.__The_keys_are_well_small_ and_the_whole_unit_Was_a_bit_fragile._It_is_also_extremely_ demanding_on_your_CPU. I_Love_KORG_Gear_but_i_will_give_this_one_a_miss. Now_i_gotta_go_digging_around_in_my_loft_for_an_old_keyboar d.______This_is_Quite_annoying. |
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haha__must_make _post |
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There's an MS-20 emulation in the Reaktor user library - Solar X did it, working back and forth with an actual MS-20, trying to get the sound as close as possible. Looks like he put a lot of work into fine tuning the filter macro. Wonder how close it really is having never played with an MS-20... |
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The best sounds the MS20 can do are when you get the HPF and LPF into self-oscillation and have them cross-over - You get the most monstrous distortion - It's how RJ did the bass drums and zaps on the Classics & ICBYD albums... The best thing about the MS20 is the SQ10 hardware sequencer - As a straight bass or lead synth it's alright - Definetly put to good use by Mr Oizo - But a pretty thin sound in a lot of ways. I don't think any software would be able to do those monster filter fx - That's what the MS20 is really famous for - I cannot imagine those sounds ever coming out of anything digital - In fact, just sampling them seems to take a huge chunck out of the presense and impact of those sounds. I've still not seen a softsynth or VA that can even do a half-convincing self-oscillating filter - Usually they just put an unconvincing sine wave in there - Let alone what happens when two cross over. I will be interested to see what Sound on Sound make of it - I think I know what FM's review will say already - It'll just be the usual Korg arse-kissing, please advertise with us, a la Korg Prophecy. |
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I agree. Just copying the architecture and mod-routings of a synth doesn't mean it will sound convincing. You can do convincing imitations, Prophet5 from NI for example, but you really have to code it from scratch. Even then you can't get everything to sound as good as the original. Imitations with Nords and Reaktors don't really do it well. Use those for some original sounds instead. |
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i have both an ms-20 and an sq-10 and i agree with what everybody said especially what j swift said, very accurate as always i know for a fact that the best distortion/filter sounds sweeps and all you can do with it comes by making the esp loop onto itself to generate one more oscillator, and a phat one i must say then go back to make the filter self-oscillate and the beast will screams like a demon. this is again something (the esp's feedback loops) that emulating softwares will never reproduce accurately enough for me you can even reroute the signal out in the esp and out the sound via the phones jack for even more phat analogue distortion and the sq-10 add even more modulation, really exellent thing, you can even use the clock generator as another oscillator or lfo to do real fm and am with the synth i could really talk all day about that synth so i'm going to stop here |
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yeah, I do like it, but it is a cliched sound, and for 700 quid, its an expensive gloriified filter. The routing on it is a bonus (im talking original ms20 here), but again, the sounds are kinda limited. Its good at a few things, and it does those very well, but a lot of people have done these things before, and although I would like one, my decision of 'crap' came from the old price vs what it can do formula. I wouldn't pay 700 quid for it, when you think how much a nord modular is, and I could spend 700 quid and build a better synth myself (although it would take me a couple of years and a sizeable amount of plaigerising rolands and moogs, for some juicy analogue) :) |
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J swift, what you describe is called res beating. SOooo, good. I love the ms-20. I had one when I was younger and hate myself for selling it. I had a limited knowledge then,...I would love one now. Analogue is the shit. Fuck nords, analogue can not be reproduced. It's worth the extra cash..It's limited, but nothing else can sound like it. Very unique. |
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You know I'd love to try that effect on the software version! Just dial up exactly the same patch I used to use and see what happens!? I honestly can't imagine - I would be very suprised if it sounds remotely like the real thing - Those noises were pure evil sometimes! 2 bags of self-oscillating filter and throw in some of the most insane multiple phase distortion - I've just never heard sounds like that coming out of anything digital or modelled. That's definetly what I'll remember my MS-20 for - They seemed to be the only types of sounds RJ ever used it for too. It makes me mad when these magazine reviews completely miss the point with classic gear like that... They think "ah it's got cult status", must just be for the bass and lead sounds.. An MS-20 without the ability to go into insane overdrive is just a pretty mediocre buzz machine. I always thought things like the Jex SX-1000 were much better as simple bass and lead synths. |
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I'm getting an mks-80 in a week or so. I'm going to wait on the ms-20 until their prices go down a bit. They are nearly twice what I paid over 7 years ago. Geesh, it's been that long. Yeah. The fm'ed filters were the shit. Also really good ring mod. There's a lot that can be made with the ms-20. Clangs and bassdrums, too..Any other tips on synths that can't be reproduced with software? I'm getting the mks for bass, and also other sultry sounds that would take up more than half the cpu in the my computer. :-) |
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also, a 303 filter like the MAM MB33II would be nice. Or a moded sh-101 with Audio IN. Squelchy analogue filters are hard to replicate |
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Ah, I'd love an MKS-80! I always bid on them on ebay, but they always end up going for silly money in the last minute. Apparently one of RJ's most used synths - Recognise all those basses, pads, strings, etc... a mile off. I think filter self-oscillation is one thing they've never cracked in VA or software - You just get a real twiddly sine wave on the emulations. The Yamaha CS80V, I didn't think worked in software atall... It's quite a cool softsynth, and it can make some of the same sounds - But the whole tone and presense of the instrument is completely different. The real CS's had this huge detuned sound - Had a real depth and emotional quality - Which was totally lost in the VSTi. Bass in general I've never liked out of softsynths - I was they always seem to get really quiet as you turn the filter lower - And the point where you'd expect monster sub on an analog synth, you're just left with nothing. I've heard the Korg MS2000 and micro are good for basses though - So it must be possible in software. |
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ok, this talk about the filters self oscillating is very interesting. j swift, could you possible go into more detail about how this is achieved on the ms 20. i've been tossing the idea around about getting an old modular like that. |
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he uses the mks? Did I tell you that? How did you come by this info? Ears? Hey, You on AH? |
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Basically, digital synths self oscillate, too. But they are pure sine tones. Self oscillating filters are boosting the frequencies near the cutoff frequency, if increased enough the turn into sine tones. An ms-20 is good for it's shitty components, thus making it very organic and unpredictable and vibrant. Because of the reacting circuitry. The res beating is when both of the filters are self oscillating and frequency modulating each other. Sound great with a bassdrum of beat run though the input. These are the qualities of analogue synths. It would take shit loads of man hours and brains to recreate these thing in the digital world. Not to mention the warmth. All those ciruits breathing on each other. |
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It's a linear vs. non-linear filter thing |
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Hehe, I was told he used an Atari, DX7 (later replaced with a Prophecy, as a control keyboard), TX801Z (powerful FM synth module), MKS-80 + programmer, Akai S3000, R8, Memorymoog, in his main setup. But also has a whole load of analog gear, like an SH-5 and EMS Synthi, 909, 101, Syntex, MS20, MS50, etc... lying around. Yeah that filter oscillation can be an insane effect in some synths - A lot of those noises on the Aphex Classics LP are straight out of the MS-20 - Isoprophlexs' bass drum & distorted snare noise are both classic MS-20 sounds - And the looped noise in Wax the Nip is a classic MS-20/SQ-10 type loop. One reason it'd be hard to do in software is because of the huge dynamic range you'd need - With any kind of digital processing, every time you drop 6db's you loose 1-bit of resolution - If you think about the way wave information is stored - So I imagine such a violent sound, with such a big range, would sound quite grainy and digital in the quieter sections, with a very low bit depth, to avoid digital clipping on the peak. |
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yeah, druqks has a huge scope. Big range. Many think it's digital. I don't. |
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well, the percussion in druqks has a thick sound to me,..I think digital can be used well if you are creative. Like flim, or the ending on mont st. michels. The more touching tracks. :-) Hey, you think the mks can do percussion. Or bass drums. Probably not what it's good for. Just hoping I can squeeze some of those sounds out too. I imagine an ms-20 would be great for a wide variety of percussion sounds. Any other gear suggestions for percussion? |
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You know, I liked the MS-20, but I thought on its own, without the MS50 expander and SQ10 sequencer, it felt a little limited. I think Druqks was pretty heavily software produced - But I read he was using the Fenton Synex (can't remember if that's spelt right) quite a bit - Which is a pretty recent semi-modular synth - Sort of like a cross between an MS-20 and an ARP2600... You'd get a lot of percussion noises off something like that.. I think the MKS80 is best for those analog brass, pad and string sounds, and really good for melodic/warm basses. I recon you could get a lot of 808-like percussion sounds out of it too. I think the best piece of gear for percussion is your sampler - It's like, if you've got too many sounds coming from the same synths it can start to sound a little OTT... I'm more into cutting up and processing sounds off other records or from sample libraries for most of my drum sound - Just to get more textures and sounds in there. Just listening to Druqks now - Sounds like there's lots of regular drum machine sounds in there... Not 100% sure, but it sounds like it could be some R8 messed around with a bit - It's where Autechre got a lot of their early sounds.. |
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I had an ms-20. I thought it sucked. It's all over my 'I will do you for free' CD if your interested ... |
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