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As for "Intelligent Dance Music", the phrase seems sort of absurd if you take it at face value: the notions of rhythm, "melody" and form found in most alleged "IDM" doesn't even come close to the complex intelligence of your average Saariaho or Xenakis composition, and yet the creepy Mensa-style pretensions inherent in this assertion of supposed "Intelligence" persist precisely because its adherents never exit their own charmed circle, and generally speaking, seem unwilling to try anything other than IDM, thus preventing them from ever stumbling across something that might challenge their notion that they're really brainy and special for digging Autechre. Sure, I love Autechre and the Schematic label, but I also like James Brown and Trouble Funk and Basement Jaxx and Daft Punk- does this make me unintelligent? The snooty attitude towards "real" dance music inherent in the term IDM fits all too easily with the stereotype of the bedroom collector geek who is hopelessly alienated from the bodily hedonism of a decent soundsystem/rave/club party and who thereby fashions a resentment based alibi for why he can't get down. Furthermore, if you consider the sociological origins of contemporary electronic dance music in black and gay clubs in Chicago and New York and then consider the overall "whiteness" and "straightness" of the average IDM artist and fan it all starts to look kind of sinister, like people patting themselves on the back because they are so much more advanced than those savages who leap about to their wild drums or something. Sheesh. That said, I belong to the weblist called "IDM" and occasionally enjoy the discussions there, because I like some of the artists who get lassoed into that category (not to mention that we, occasionally, are lumped into that category too), and because you can occasionally find out about interesting records on that list. Like any other community, it allows for networking and exchange of information which is really useful and productive and powerful- but like a |
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but like any community, it always needs to define itself through exclusion, clique-ishness and the fashioning of some "other" excluded terms: rock music, women, noise, "real" dance music. I've noticed that whenever discussions drift towards anything about gender or sexuality on that list the cluelessness factor jumps off the chart. Matmos is IDM if that only means "might be talked about on the IDM list"- but I don't endorse that term "intelligent dance music" because it's laughable. Rather Interesting Records had a nice slogan that kind of says it all: "Remember: Only Stupid People Call It "Intelligent". When we made "The West" we didn't know about the term, but we knew that we were sick of lazy reviewers comparing us to Autechre and we wanted to ditch all those comparisons and reflect the fact that we love Robbie Basho and Hawaiian guitars. A bit more risk-taking all round would be nice... (from http://www.furious.com/perfect/matmos.html) |
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matmos are art fags |
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Well, I couldn't agree more. Therefore, Matmos are k3wl. |
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then i'm an art fag wannabe. |
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i dig the point of view 100% |
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all i'm saying is anyone who spends that much time disecting a music genre for being pretentious can't be that humble them self |
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although i didn't read that entire thing (and i probably should have) i think the whole fuss over the name is silly. first of all, this supposed pretentious, afraid to listen to stuff outside of the genre, and thinking one is smart and brainy because they listen to idm exists in many genres. many people become genre specific and scoff at other music. this isn't an isolated case. oh shit i've just gone to switch my laundry and i've lost all my desire to rant on about this. to sum things up that i haven't exactly said yet. who cares what it's called. it's just a name. if you like the music, you like the music, if you don't, you don't. this whole 'pretentiousness' about idm is silly. isn't pretentious about being better than everyone else? isn't calling out idm's pretentiousness trying to be better than everyone else? isn't my post about how it's all silly trying to come off as better than others? oh wait, fuck it is. that's life. so all in all, everyone should shut their mouths. |
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It's from an interview. |
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ok, but to be fair -- this interview was done five years ago, when the whole 'idm' thing was a bit less masticated. |
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sorry i didn't mean to come off a little crazy about it. well for a second i came out strong and in the end it was weak and flacid. yes, flacid. |
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My point being : they were asked, more or less, they 'IDM' is pretentious". This previous sentence has no structure whatsoever. WELL FUCK OF?EFZ. |
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maybe the only thing dumber than the term idm is to try to create a phony stereotype of idm listeners. i guarantee you it was a *music journalist* who coined "idm" and gave birth to all of the grumblings and debate about elitism. i think according to this statement by one of matmos, the definition of "idm listeners" is "people who only listen to idm," therefore the elitist stereotype is a forgone conclusion. in other words, just a reason to give matmos a long, hard pat on the back for not being like those "closed minded idm elitists." how many people on this mb listen exclusively to so-called idm? almost no one. |
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i doubt his viewpoint would be different today... in many ways he is right (either Martin or Drew, whoever was the one who said it)... but i think that a lot of the people who he's singling out feel the exact same way he does, but have let the name stick for the sake of communication.... what always confused me about people talking about how pretentious idm was, is that i can't really think of many of those at the forefront as being pretentious in any way... is rdj pretentious? not at all... what about ziq? vibert? snares? ae? (well maybe on some level... but i'd just say they have a very different artistic vision than most) jenkinson? the answer is no... but all the tigerbeat people decided it was yes anyway, and went off and made a lot of shitty music about what unpretentious jokesters they are (of course matmos, is an exception, as far as quality goes...)... as for the comment about white people and exclusion: well that's pretty ill conceived, because idm is as much influenced by black dance music, as black dance music was by white techno (ie kraftwerk) and it's all just trying to stir shit up unnecessarily... |
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lots of words = hating. which is too bad, cuz i'm interested in reading, i just can't be arsed tonight. |
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well, i wouldn't say that there isn't anyone who fits their description, plaidzebra, but those people will come around sooner or later... |
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fav+? |
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"who thereby fashions a resentment based alibi for why he can't get down" mmmmm words like caek that's some mighty fine hatin |
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it seems like all people can do is hate |
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nevertheless, the term "idm" was, i think, coined by a journalist looking to characterize a style of music, a scene, a listening community. to appropriate the term has nothing to do with elitism. any music considered remotely fashionable or "granting cool outsider status" will attract poseurs. yet the poseurs really have nothing at all to do with the music... |
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i think he's spot on. |
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Great response, very happy with that... respect for Matmos raised a couple notches |
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how often does a genre label really do the music justice? genres are just there to help people try and create a general category for music that is similar (and of course for marketability). whatever the genre is called tends to be rather irrelevant and usually unwelcomed by the people who participate in it. for example, is "stoner rock" all stoners playing rock? of course not - it shouldn't be taken that literally. so likewise, "intelligent dance music" shouldn't be interpreted as literally as that. i mean, the "dance" part doesn't really make sense for later-period autechre, does it? so my point is, genres are just quick marketing ploys devised by journalists and labels and you shouldn't take them at face value. you should just use genres as a general frame of reference and disregard the irrelevant denotation. that said, i like matmos's music very much and think that they're funny. and i will continue thinking of them as industrial/idm crossover whether they like it or not. :) |
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yeah, moi aussi. |
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i think we should make up a phrase instead of IDM so people don't get the wrong idea. from now on all experimental electronic music will be known as Gragledy Fremniak. hopefully autechre is coming out with a new ep this year, since they are the best gragledy fremniak band ever. |
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they could call it the Gr.gl/D% Fr~mn!#k ep |
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no it should be called the "we've done so much acid we get worried when the walls STOP talking" ep |
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I agree with him. |
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who gives a flying fuck i like the term intelligent dance music. hell, I think it's more intelligent than other kinds of dance music. I like other kinds of dance music, but I don't evaluate it the same way. i see Autechre, for example, as more like art or 'sound architecture' so to speak more than 'music' anyway. I'd don't think I'd like it if I listened to it in the same way as I listened to pop trance. Just as I'd dislike pop trance if I evaluated it the same way as I did certain IDM. People get into these conflicts because they only see music as one thing when it's actually a very diverse medium that's used for many purposes. Matmos is right in some respects, but on the other hand, it's nothing we all haven't thought already. they're not being that profound. I agree with thecurbcreeper: some of these IDM label bashers are just as pretentious as the fans. |
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1- hey, lets take a term "idm", assume that most of these artists actually (want) to call their stuff "idm". 2- lets use a name and group all these artists by this "idm" name... and stereotype them as pretentious, white, middle class, straight 3- press and public come up with this "idm" term... most artist's dont like the term but since their music could/ is termed by public/ press they must be "intelligent" elitest assholes 4- lets assume they only listen to other "idm" artists 5 - wait to come off like pretentious, wanna-be, postmodern assholes... im not even going to comment about their music. there are spelling errors, but that's cause im fucking stupid. thankypi/. |
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what an absolutely useless post the above is. |
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and you are indeed "fucking stupid" |
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are we going to have a lurker battle? |
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hmm personal attacks how intelligent |
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IDM is gay, stop talking about it. |
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hey! it says they're regulars now, show some respect! honestly though, i think he was primarily referring to the scenesters... and less so the musicians... but it's okay, cause matmos is pretty awesome, and it doesn't really fucking matter what they think of their fans |
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I thought people enjoying IDM (whatever it's called) have enough musicla culture to not believe that electronic music has not been created from scratch by gay people in the detroit clubs. He mentionned Xenakis who greek but not gay and except wendy carlos I can't see many gay people or black people. I also think that this mb is the living proof that people digging IDM are also very open to other musics and other forms of art. |
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A- i listen to IDM. B- what does that stand for? A- intelligent dance music. B- that sounds a bit pretentious. A- yes, thats why we shortened it to IDM. |
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Bang on. I'm suprised that they think, "...precisely because its adherents never exit their own charmed circle, and generally speaking, seem unwilling to try anything other than IDM" 'scuse me, but "IDM fans" seem to be the most open to music of other genres. Try going to a rap forum and asking if people like the new chemical brothers release or try going to a rock forum and asking about the new N.E.R.D. one; You'll find that people there are far less inclined to even listen to, let alone like, stuff outside their genre. The fact that IDM is one of the most diverse genres, spawned out of many different influences (see the cover of Warp's seminal AI compilation for some hints- I reckon there's 80s hip hop in there too) and that has no set rules about what is idm, to quote Ishkur, "That's why it's the one genre that doesn't have any kind of cohesive sound." means that the listeners will of course be very open to other genres. IDM fans are attacked a lot, it's easy to do, the term "intelligent" makes us an easy target. I wonder if it was called something else, would we have the (IMO unjust) reputation as elitists? |
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no i have to agree with him, aside from idm all i listen to is big beat, and that might be because i liked big beat before i discovered idm...i almost never listen to anything resembling rock or pop or soul.... |
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Interesting how what they said gives similar effect to me as their music does - having a bit of point but boring, trying to be funny but annoying. Very intelligent about producing such effect. |
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