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so i was watching c-span tonight because i turned the xbox off to smoke and it happened to be on channel 4 and i was sitting in a REAL comfortable chair and couldn't be arsed to get the remote to change it...and i see president bush come on and sign some new law banning the safest and most widely used form of abortion. now i never really took a stance on it or anything, but his speech contained the exact phrase "because it is not our right to make that choice, it belongs to the creator of life" and all these people start cheering and fuck i'm pissed off that half the country's imaginary friend is now running the place. :( |
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partial birth abortion is sick/inhumane |
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bush < my diahrrea. |
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they only call it partial birth abortion so you think "eww, partial birth. sick/inhumane." but that name was created by the republicans and isn't even the medical term. it's the safest way to do the procedure without damaging the uterus and causing permanent damage to the reproductive system, or like...an infection and death and stuff. but once again, i think that women should be making the decisions on that anyway, not some grumpy old god-fearing farts in congress. |
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Notice that diagram comes from an anti abortion website, and note the bias evident by the use of the words 'jams' the scissors. A real medical explanation wouldn't use that terminology. |
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regardless of where this diagram comes from it is still the same procedure. I just did a quick search. Same with explaination. I think anyone can figure out what is going on there regardless of words/descriptions. |
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Note: they should have done that to you! Abortion rules. |
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Oh yeah! I am so happy to announce that my "I love abortion" t-shirt has been shipped and is on its way! Yesss! |
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i thought women were the creators of life. |
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Jesus says baby brain vacuums are bad. |
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Get your very own "I today! |
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what about the "coat hangers for all" t-shirt? :P wimp: that was the dumbest shit i have ever read |
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Whether or not you agree with abortion, regardless the procedure, I believe the mother should always have the right. If men got pregnant, abortion would be legal in a heartbeat. My mother teaches supplementary at an elementary school in my hometown. Crackbabies, molested/abused children. That's not life, that's a curse. |
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and i agree wholeheartedly. |
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right, if there were bigger words it would be better. |
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You think that's dumb? Check this out: www.zebox.com/wimp/images |
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Who can blame the mothers, really. With all the scores of children screaming from the wombs that they don't want to live in this horrible world. |
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This doesn't make abortion illegal. It is about this specific procedure. If there was some fathomable reason in which some female need to abort her child it most certainly could be done sooner. You dont have to wait that long to do such things. That's my point here |
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if there's one thing about the state of the universe that makes sense through all the chaos is that EVERYTHING that lives wants to survive. |
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How do you explain suicide? Wouldn't that disprove your "EVERYTHING" theory? |
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I agree with you, VirginP. It's just that the procedure remains illegal in cases where the mother's life is in jeopardy. That becomes ridiculous when the unborn fetus' life has more rights then the mother, who is responsible for the fetus in the first place. |
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I think maybe he's saying those people aren't really alive? I don't know. |
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I have never heard or seen any articles that could justify this. I have heard debates on this and how there was no medical proof that there is a problem in later term pregnancy that couldn't be prevented or handled through other procedures than partial birth abortion. |
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Abortion is a crewel and selfish act, but it would be impractical to make it illegal. You just can't ask that many people to actually take responsibility for their actions |
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Selfishness is a virtue. Woohoo |
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I think people that are suicidal are more alive than "normal" people. I know that sounds kind of weird but the immense emotions they are going through and all of the thoughts that overwhelm them day in and out make them more alive than some drone that goes to work, comes home, eats, sleeps, wakes up, shits and then goes back to work. IMO. Also that wasn't describing everyone. |
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"You just can't ask that many people to actually take responsibility for their actions " Was that a serious post? I mean i reread that like 5 times. If that was serious i find that quite fucking troubling. |
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It is not cruel or selfish. VirginP, it's just the idea that should such a situation occur, the law states that the mother must die. Creeps me out. Someone else deciding whether or not you live or die. Also, there is a fear that this ban will cause the downfall of women's right to abort pregnancy. I don't agree that Afterlifer's beliefs have such a powerful voice over so many lives. |
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I am just saying that with modern technology and medicine that it is an entirely unnecessary procedure. What circumstance would a woman be in that this would be the only choice? Why not give birth using c-section if it actually came down to that. "it's just the idea that should such a situation occur" I understand what you are saying... that perhaps something could possibly occur that would jeopardize the health of the mother as in a "what if" scenario. Although i would like to point out that most deaths that occured while birthgiving occured before 1900. |
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you're ALL missing the point, the original post was the fact that bush was holding his hands up in the air and referring to seems to be running the country. |
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I tend to go off topic a bit. I was refering to the "new law banning the safest and most widely used form of abortion" part of it. |
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it's still the safest and most widely used. enough of this, i'm off to bed. |
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why can't we value the life of other things before we value our own? |
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HAHAhahaha that post made me laugh |
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the rate of death is not important, virginpusher. after all, so-called partial birth abortion is a small percentage of total abortions performed. yet, a woman may face a situation in which carrying a fetus to a stage at which the fetus can survive outside the womb presents the significant risk of the mother dying. in addition, doctors may discover that the fetus cannot survive due to deformity or other problems, for example the fetus may be missing vital organs. this happened to my wife's close friend. some anti-abortionists may disguise these facts when providing statistics about the prevalence of the procedure. most women would not choose so-called partial birth abortion unless it was necessary. this law is an effort to erode the reproductive freedom of women. i think that this freedom should be taken very seriously. if it concerns you, i personally believe that abortion is unethical and to be avoided, but that a woman's reproductive freedom is more important. the best anti-abortion action is through acts of love, kindness, non-judgement. teach people the value and sanctity of life. put forth your time and energy to help provide alternatives and support. contribute positively, instead of sitting back and judging people. |
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why not adopt? |
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Actually kochlear, The US was founded on freedom of religion. Our laws and documents were modeled after the Christian ethic. I agree that government should not be religious in anyway, but this is not a new thing by any means. Hell, when you got to court you have to place your hand on a bible and swear to tell the truth. |
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Plaidzebra made my nipples hard. Very well put. |
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pro choice, no question but as weve seen beurocracy and ethics dont mix |
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yes but the problem is that it is slowly taking over and i would not be in the least bit suprised if in 5 years prayer in school is mandatory at church just think about it. thinking is something that doesn't happen nearly enough in this country. |
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This cannot be inhumane, because the foetus is not really a human being. |
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deltoid, i assumed it would be understood that adoption would be one of the actions that would follow. perhaps i should have stated more explicitly, people could adopt or work with organizations that facilitate adoption or provide aid to mothers-to-be who are willing to choose adoption... |
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"some anti-abortionists may disguise these facts when providing statistics about the prevalence of the procedure." That's a given. I most certainly agree with that. The best way to get a point across is to get across some and not all of the facts. That goes both ways though. Pro-choice people do the same thing. I would like to read an article or facts from an independant group showing just the facts on everything of this subject. Thus far it could be said that everything in this thread is either opinionated or onesided (as with the website of the link i provided). I would like something that approaches this from all angles. I do agree with a large % of your post BTW. That's why i love when you join discussions! :D |
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oops that was meant to follow zebra~!!! |
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virginpusher, thanks for your kind words. |
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has anybody actually seen the tv thing i'm talking about? it's horrible. i was pretty high when i made this thread yesterday so i don't totally remember what it went like, bush just came out and "blah blah sept 11th blah war on terror blah blah congress for 4 billion for new ballpoint pens blah blah abortion bad god bless america" or maybe they're all just running together since they're all the same... |
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I believe you can take a different oath, especially for atheists, something that has nothing to do with God. |
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*sigh* fundies |
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What the hell is that, a baptism or a spongebath? Or is it one of those lamaze births and the ob-gyn is holding up the placenta in victory? |
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