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1. Bands like Coldplay and Wilco who know they are hailed by critics and embrace the image, and ones like Radiohead who are too creative for their own good and know it. 2. The new breed of 'anti-packaged-pop' pseudo-singer/songwriter types i.e. Michelle Branch, Vanessa Carlton, who also embrace the image and become obnoxious in the process. 3. The overabundance of published mediocrity, i.e. too many small labels and producers. (I'm guilty here, I admit) I think there' s been a complete role reversal. The indie has just become the mainstream, the mainstream is frowned upon. The indie has become self-aware and is compromising itself. I find myself more drawn to the mainstream these days simply as a backlash against the plethera of bogus profundity on the market. Oh yeah, like Coldplay is THAT much more talented than Good Charlotte. Music will die soon not just because the sonic palette has been exhausted by the emergence of electronic music, but because of the bastardization of innovation in our society. When I recently realized that more of my friends like so-called 'indie' or 'underground' stuff than not, and that my brothers friends are trying to get all hip in the pop punk scene and downloading stuff off of Kazaa when they should be playing nintendo or listening to age-appropriate mainstream stuff, I knew there was something wrong. When I was 11 I wasn't downloading mp3s!! I wasd playing Mario Bros.!! I understand that I need to change with the times, but I think there's more at stake now. Okay, I just brought up two points and didn't resolve either. I'm quitting now. |
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OK, but you're mainly talking about the music industry, not about music in itself.. |
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i disagree. what you're talking about is the death of commercial music, which is something that i wouldn't care about, even if it did happen. besides, music, like any other art form, is infinite and only limited by the artist's imagination; you can't say that imagination is about to die. i don't think the sonic palette has been exhausted either, far from it in fact. that's a hard thing to say because you can't imagine a sound until you have heard it, so there could be an endless amount of other sounds out there that we can't comprehend because we haven't heard them. |
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i doubt the music industry will die. there's just too much money to be made. it will change significantly though, whether it wants to or not. actual music is in no danger of disappearing. |
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Good point.. you're right. Although I suppose I was thinking along the lines that since the music industry influences the output so much that there will inevitably be a negative shift in artistic production as well. However I think you were right in noticing that discrepancy. Music, in and of itself, isn't necessarily about to die. |
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whats wrong with wilco when did they get big |
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First of all, mainstream is whatever they're trying to shove down your neck-hole that week. So Wilco, Radiohead and Coldplay are mainstream... or was that last week? Secondly, if more people like smaller acts then that's a good thing and testifies to the power of the internet as a self organizing phenomenon that promotes by word of mouth and free samples through merit alone. Thirdly, not only has the sonic palette not been exhausted - the only limit is imagination - but timbre is only one element in the phenomenon called music. New styles are constantly evolving and hybridizing. Finally, of course the media giants will attempt to co-opt and mass market anything that seems like it could get popular and appeal to the masses. But why bother paying attention to those fading dinosaurs? Nirvana didn't stop being good when they sold it to the mullets. |
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i think music itself is just getting better and better. and fuck the music industry. |
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the sheer amount of information in all mediums has been growing wildly since the invention of the printing press. making it harder and harder to wade through the stuff you don't find interesting, and stumble across the things you do. this applies to movies, music, books, ect... |
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That is why people form information hives - critical collectives - such as this one. |
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i like underground music cause i feel like i've earned it, rather than having it shoved in my face |
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it's kind of like how dogs like people food more than dog food, you know? |
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*nods* |
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These are excellent points. I think I tried to make one too many and screwed myself in the process. I think my main concern lies in the idea of the death of innovation. I mean this on multiple levels. Part of this concern is that the innovators we DO have will cease to be innovative because of the attention. Fleetmouse, your example of nirvana is well taken, although I suspect there will be a large number of bands who are not so lucky. Bands like Coldplay and increasingly Radiohead annoy me because they seem like they have stopped creating music that happened to me innovative and started to try to create innovative music. It's so self-consious and obnoxious and all these new fans are latchinbg onto them like they are the geniuses of the world and that they are geniuses for listening to them. The socond part of my concern has to do with a problem in music itself. I think that there will always be innovators and those who think creatively. I mentioned (precariously) that the sonic palette had been exhausted. Maybe yes, maybe no.. but I think there's an inverse relationship between technology and music these days. As technology has advanced lighting fast, music has been exhausted. There may be a few new timbres hidden away in Richard D. James lost Stomper file, but before long we will be reduced to an exclusively remixed and revivalist musical scene that consists only of remixing, covering, and doing old styles with new juxtapositions. *whew* I wonder how many new posts there have been since I started this.. Fleetmouse is the last one that appears here.. so I'm not intentionally ignoring anyone :-) |
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Yeah, and how crazy poor old ladies like cat food more than human food. |
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CAUSE THEY GET HUMAN FOOD SHOVED IN THEIR FACE |
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rofl |
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I'm still waiting for the big backlash against electric/electronic instruments and the return to flutes, bongos and zithers at corner pubs. :-) Thing is, you can't see in advance where the future innovations will come from, otherwise you'd be the innovator. I'm sure people who listened to Bach and Vivaldi in their day couldn't anticipate Beethoven or Stravinsky. Interesting what you say here: but before long we will be reduced to an exclusively remixed and revivalist musical scene that consists only of remixing, covering, and doing old styles with new juxtapositions. It's like the "grey goo" end of the world nightmare proposed by people who fear nanotechnology running out of control. I think the endless postmodernist remixing and genre bending has to do with Total Cultural Availability - it's a novel stage, technologically, that pretty much anything ever created is available at the push of a button and people are taking advantage of it and exploring the possibilities. But I expect the fad will pass as people get tired of suckling at the techno-tit. |
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Thing is, you can't see in advance where the future innovations will come from, otherwise you'd be the innovator. Very true. I think this is a great quotable quote :*). I suppose I am admitting my shortsightedness and naivete a bit when I throw up my hands and say that there's nowhere else we can go. I also realize there's more to innovation than raw sound. But, on the other hand, it seems to me that so many 'radical movements' in music over the past few centuries, and especially in the past ten or so decades, have been characterized by either new changes in technology, or, an entirely new 'sound' or 'vibe', or both. For example, before computers, musicians were at the mercy of their acoustic instruments that provided one sound or a series of related sounds. They could push these to the extreme, yes, but they still had limitations. When the computer came along and allowed us to work with sound in an exponentially greater way, we were no longer confined to a set of timbres because by working on the most basic level of wave editing, we could theoretically create any sound possible. Violins and orchestraes were used for ages.. when the guitar became popular, people used those and innovated them further by making electric guitars which spun off whole new worlds of music like rock as we know it. The mid seventies 80s signaled a big change too because the electronic keyboards and synthesizers created sound no one had ever heard before; literally. But now, hearing new sounds *really* just means hearing a new style or new juxtaposition. This is what leads me to think that even though there is room for progress, it's not the type of truly exciting progress we;ve seen in decades past. Your mention of postmodernism is perfect summation, not just of my point, but yours too. The availablity of pretty much anything is hard to make heads of tails of. I truly hope it is just a fad like you said. Maybe there *will* be a techno backlash. I'm rpiming myself for those zithers. :) |
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oops. as you could have guessed, that was *not* supposed to be all in italics. sorry. forgot to end my html tag. |
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p.s. coldplay is boring and for stupid people |
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I think the problem that drowns a lot of music is "the scene" especially in indie-rock, etc. I mean, the Used are pop now, Taking Back Sunday is pop, not because it's good music that people like, but becuase other people NOT in the scene have heard it, and like it. Now you can't go to a Used show without screaming girls and feel like a tool (never been to a show of theres yet, but these are the show reports I read) So now I can't like the used, and the fringe fans won't support them, and talk shit, because outsiders like them. FUck that, there is no scene, emo, all that shit can eat me. It's music, if you are making your own music, cuz you love music, more power too you. The only thing that should be labeled is PRODUCED CORPORATE MUSIC. Where 10 different people write songs for an artist and bid to get them on the CD. That is fucking the worst. The scene though, it chokes music, and kills a lot of energy, I hate it very much. |
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Haha, my feelings exactly rgbv. Let's face it, whether you like it or not, America owns the industry, and melodic pop pith like coldplay and wilco might be somewhat popular in England there, but the yanks could give a toss about it. |
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Bands have been selling out for years. It's not a new phenonmina. Indie only becomes mainstream when your taste in music is stagnant. |
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saying music is going to die is a really broad statement. Watch any vh1 show that looks back at music in 1989 and you'll see people like paula abdul, vanilla ice and new kids on the block. By the looks of things on the outer crust, you could have easily said the same back then. Yeah we have mp3 technology blah blah blah, but as long as there are good people with good intentions running good labels like hymen, ant-zen, praxis, etc there will always be good music. Whether there's any money to be made or not. |
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