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Has anyone noticed that there is a lot of criticism of repetition in IDM these days? I can't understand it...music is founded on repatitive rythmn and yet, as a genre, IDM seems to be so far up it' own arse that a 6 minutes noise track is considered much better than a good old track you can actually dance to :D I dunno what the rest of you think... |
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Artists are striving to prove themselves. Have to be seen to be 'better than x' repetition makes them look like they cant think of ways to progress the song. Some of my fav aphex tracks are the repetitive early ones from ambient works 2. People get bored. |
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well I can't imagine music without some amount of repetition. it all comes down to taste and what the music is intended for. |
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I think one of the problems is that people don't want to feel the music any more, they only want to hear it...if that makes sense :) |
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Yeah I understand what your saying. I dig all sorts of genres, including ahem cough Trance, Techno, House. I even listen to some pop songs. I listen to stuff because it sounds good. If it's pure crap but catchy i'll listen to it. Musik est Macht |
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the classic build up technique isnt 'in' this season perhaps |
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haha i like justin timberlakes new stuff. Sounds like michael jackson |
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yeah the whole IDM thing is way over rated I think, what I mean is the aspect of repition and such, complexity and all that. I like the old AFX better...... |
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i heard that micheal jackson got plastic surgery to look like justin timberlake and then he did the justified album and left |
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that first single, with the acoustic guitar. Thats jackson through and through. His new one, the disco one is like something from off the wall too. I aint ashamed. Fuck all this reputation before musical quality rubbish. |
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Yay for *gets a drink, lays on couch, turns on MTV* |
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i'd rather listen to him than the cheeky girls or some rubbish europop dj with his latest korg demo revamp |
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I love repetition in music, if it's executed correctly |
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having the same thing repeated all over a long period of time is no problem if there are changes, even very slight ones. these slight changes are emphazised by the repetitivity of the rest of the music. like in some fine moments in SAWII. ambient like this is an example of good repetitivity. long repetitive tracks can be repulsive, harder to get into, and therefore (it is weird in some way) demand more listens than less repetitive tracks to get appreciated. but the same goes with tracks that are less repetitive than usual... they're also harder to get into... something paradoxal is that some tracks which aren't repetitive at all, can sound repetitive and all the same to the profane... right now i am playing An Awkward Pause by Nurse With Wound, third track called 'The Penis Fruit Loop', and at first it sounded deceiving, void and boring like hell to me! now, i like it, i realized it is much more rich than it seemed at first listen... but it took me a lot of listens to get into it. |
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A repetetive track, if it's a good one, can take you into a state of trance, therefor I like them. |
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i think it has to do with people's attention spans.. it seems like kids who play a lot of video games and listen to fast, ultra complex music (a good portion of 'idm's fanbase) get bored pretty quickly with music that doesnt change every few seconds these kids also probably grew up watching sesame street and/or other fast paced, colorful childrens shows |
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I don't mind repetition, but sometimes it's taken pointlessly far. I can't bear some early Aphex Twin stuff because of it....why repeat something for 16 bars when you could change within 8? I'm not some kid who needs drill n' bass stuff that changes every few seconds, but repetition should be used sensibly..look at classical music; I think those composers get it perfectly right...a balance between being accesible, holding the listener's attention, and not pissing you off by repeating everything over and over and over again. |
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I think after most people heard "white blur 2" |
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can u define "repetitivity" for us please |
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I think its like someone said earlier; its basically a quest for each 'IDM' artist to outdo the other. So that means making your music as complicated and as far reaching as possible. I think there will come a time soon when melodies will follow suit too. Things will get more and more complicated (as if they're aren't already). I remember listening to 'Big Loada' thinking it can't get anymore complicated than this, but it did. I think its good for those who can keep up. I remember initially listening to early techno (and ambient) when it all started to break out and I thought it was too repetative (initial impressions). However I got used to that repetition and it become part of the whole feeling of the music. And then Aphex Twin took the repetition element to the enth degree with Selected Ambient Works II. At the time, it all felt just so right. I miss those days. Getting into the minimal shit especially SAWII I think is tougher these days. Back then it was my bread and butter, I worshipped the ultra minimal sound. I was so into the minimal ambient sound I started listening to Locust and then Eno, who is even more minimal really than Aphex especially with records like On Land. It is harder listening to that stuff these days and it annoys me, 'cause I used to get a lot of pleasure from stuff by Eno. I guess I could get into the spirit of stuff like 'Bush of Ghosts' but other stuff is tougher. The ambient movement for me has and always will be the biggest influence in my life. But we're now in a new age and who knows where it'll end. |
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listen to music in 12 parts by philip glass all the way through without stopping. then and only then can we continue this conversation. |
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repetition became dirty when electronic music became snobby imo |
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heheh, yeah that sounds a pretty good summation |
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spot on :) |
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yeah exactly |
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the techno elite squad is here to suck your brain of individuality! nooooooooo |
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it depends on the music, i guess maybe the level or repetition in the rythm defines what type of music it is? but then that opens a whole new can of worms, i can't even be bothered pigeonholing music now |
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It just has to do with the way our brains organize information, and try to understand the data they are recieving. Computers allow for insanely detailed complex compositions that really trick our minds like "the boombonic plague" by otto von schirach. Repetition means that the thing you are hearing now is the same that you heard in the past and the same you will hear in the future. It is predictable, and is more like looking at a single object. But since music passes in time, it's necessary to keep repeating it. You can't just keep looking at it like you can visualy otherwise. |
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I don't see how this "more complicated" music is an improvement really. One could argue wether it's actually more complicated as they claim or just plain rubbish/gibberish that doesn't make any sense at all. I can't be arsed "getting into" music that changes every frikkin' sec, because then the whole concept of music is lost to me. |
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I believe in change. |
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cheers |
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oh you should see me 'bogdan style' to idm :) |
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true. its like the progression in skateboarding: *flash back 1980's* skateboarding was all ramps. skating street meant wearing gloves and dragging your hands as you carved down a hill. a gnarly trick was an invert, or a McTwist. *present* now skateboarding is all technical fliptricks while flying down a 9+ stairset into a street teaming with speeding cars. Its breaking your nutz on a handrail just to get a good shot for the bail section of your sponsor's next video (see 'Welcome to Hell' from Toy Machine) IDM has progressed in a similar fashion |
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not all change is for the better |
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everything changes. even the amish got reflectors on the backs of their horse-n-buggies |
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music doesnt have to be complex to be good, but too repetative is boring, you can be un-repetative without being boring and vice versa |
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I agree. it isn't so much in complexity, as in repetativeness. you see, a lot of repetition comes forth out of inadequacy in the department of musical ideas and/or knowledge, not so much because it is the "artist's choice". |
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i know friends who i've played autechre to and they think it's shit, apart from the people i know who are trained musicians, who understand music theory, and look at time signitures etc and think there stuffs pretty ground breaking eg, it's repeatative over say, 8 bars but then a key change in one sound will just completely alter the track |
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repetition can be good... you find a sweet groove in some song, and you just want it to repeat forever... however it can also be totally grating... |
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I agree ecnadniarb.......sometimes there's so much 'funk', 'emotion', 'feeling' etc in a 2 second loop it can be repeated many times as it just re inforces what you just heard. The whole original hiphop thing was based on this. All this constant mutation crap is soo 'prog rock' where technical abilities were more important than what you are actually hearing. I wish sometimes 'IDM' people would be a bit more brave and loop a slice that moves them..... |
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maybe 'IDM' people are trying to find a hundred pieces of sound that move them, instead of just one. |
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Maybe they are? Maybe they aren't? You don't know and neither do I. I meant I wish some 'IDM' people would commit to a groove/loop/feeling etc and ride with it. Do you have a favourite 'bit' of a song qrter that you wish would play more times than it does? It doesn't need to be the whole track just a bit more. |
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