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 Now online (2)recycle big ...and 376 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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So, after hearing about/listening to the new SR album (), I realized how much I think Hopelandic is bullshit, or at least in this setting. I believe the idea was that you make your own interpretation of the song? Why can't I release a blank CD then and tell people to interpret their own songs? It's a half-assed job to not even use real words and expect a meaning to be extracted from a song. Now, you can argue that Hopelandic can just be used as another instrument, but not when you repeat the same, nonsensical phrase OVER, AND OVER AGAIN. WHAT THE HELL IS HE SAYING? SOMEONE TELL ME. Sorry. Any takers? |
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sr = somatic responses? |
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Sigur Ros. |
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the most interesting question is, why do you believe you need to know what he is saying? maybe all you would have, if you did know, is the illusion of meaning, understanding, knowing. why not repeat a vocal motif, with subtle variation? why not let the medium provide the message? though for me, the only enjoyable track was number four. |
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vocal motif...a kinder way of saying redundant gibberish, i think. Maybe I am being too harsh, but somehow i don't think a lot of effor was put into the vocals...I don't HAVE to understand what he's saying, but there's a lot more effort put into music when i still have the ability to understand him or get the point of the song. (which i feel is lost within hopelandic, by the way...) |
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i think that believing that more effort is put in when you believe that you understand (you may, or you may not) seems like an unnecessary prejudice. please consider again, the medium as the message. everything you need to know appears there. would the point seem intact for you if the songs were sung in icelandic? do you speak icelandic? surely you realize that even translations are lacking when there are several levels of meaning in the lyrics, untranslatable double entendre, etc. do you not create your own subjective experience of a lyrical text? might not lyrics legitimately represent imagery without a "point"? i can appreciate your expectation that vocals represent more conventional linguistic content, but still i ask, why? lastly, i view "vocal motif" as at least neutral, instead of the judgement "redundant gibberish." i have no particular feelings about that motif, though i enjoy its function on track four. i don't intend to criticize, you've just raised some interesting points. |
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Yes, the translations can be lacking, but again, there is still more to appreciate in music when you discuss/argue a song's meaning around something that is still SOMEWHAT what the artist wanted...To say, this is music with meaning, find it yourself, is respectable, but why use vocals for it? And if you are going to use vocals as another instrument, that's fine too, but vary it a bit. The whole ( ) album needs variation; the hopelandic repeats itself and so does the piano riffs...SR has a tendency to drag...and frankly, in this album, unlike GYBE!'s long pauses and buildups, it's barely worth the wait. You are right about the message, though. Still, it can be done in a much better fashion. |
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I don't think the vocals are meant to be pecked at and picked apart. Sigur Ros's music has more to do with the soul than the brain -They're not trying to be didactic or clever.. They're just being honest. |
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I still think it's less thought-provoking and well thought-out if you don't write _lyrics._ Honest or not, contemporary or not, a song is made more beautiful when the artist's intention is shown more clearly than Hopelandic. |
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Correction: **lyrics for your vocals. |
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If you create your own meanings to the lyrics then the album becomes a much more personal experience.Its about feeling rather than meaning. |
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i did what they recommended, and guess what i found: if you try to write down what YOU think he's saying, or what it is saying to YOU... its actually quite varied, not this "saying the same phrase over and over" that you seem to suggest. |
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frag, i appreciate what you're saying, and i see how hopelandic -could- annoy me, but for some reason it doesn't. i think they've hit a nice balance on ( ), lyrics not so defined that they force a single meaning, not too open to be completely meaningless. i downloaded a live version of vaka (the first track) when i was dealing with a recent loss, very low, and the lyrics were certainly throwing a lot of suggestions at me - 'you suffer alone... you're so far... you sigh, you sigh alone.. you're so alive' etc. the lack of a strict literal meaning didn't seem at all important, the openness was part of the experience. hopelandic only becomes a problem if you try too hard to pin it down. maybe that's the whole point? |
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I often transcribe it as ........ You sat alone alone by the fire Your so alone It varies though,depending of my emotions.. |
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similar translation here, tone... but all the songs are different... if anyone wants my transcription, just email me, and we can compare notes. :) |
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there is a phenomenon of language in which the mind interprets repetitive phrases with a sort of rorschach-like reaction. (in)famous scientist john lilly (creator of the sensory deprivation tank, inspiration for the film "altered states", dolphin researcher, lsd and ketamine neuronaut) conducted experiments with tape loops consisting of one word or short phrase, for example, "cogitate." after a few minutes of hearing the loop "cogitate cogitate cogitate cogitate" individuals would begin to hear other words and phrases emerge. the same is true of the repetition in some electronic music; as a pregnant repetitive motif is repeated, the mind sees the motif give birth to subtle variations and extensions. some people will say, "it just repeats over and over," and others will say "but listen to what it's DOING!" maybe the most important observation is to acknowledge that a given piece of music derives its existence from the interaction of the creator and the listener; the composer/creator unleashes a sensory potentiality, and the listener completes the circuit, giving life and completion to what existed primarily as a potentiality. that's the beauty of sigur ros and the repetition of that vocal motif. frag, can you see now how the motif actually draws the meaning out of the listener, how it allows a listener's own mind to generate the deeply personal meaning? perhaps you resent having such a demand placed on you. |
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Well I would have to say that i liked the lyrics better on the first album since they were really saying something, although a lot of it was just bullshit. This meaningless howl on () kinda bothers me. |
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Lyrics as an instrument... repeating the same thing "over and over" ... what the hell do you think an instrumental loop in a song is? |
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I guess it could have been really bad and pointless. If they would have written about it on their website before they started working on ( ), i would have thought it was a bad idea to have abstract and meaningless lyrics. But the thing is, that it does work. Everytime i listen to ( ) it creates lots of emotions with me. The entire album is like a long emotional journey. And because it's done so well, the "lyrics" start to work, because you really do give your own meaning to it. Automatically, you can't help yourself for being affected by the music. I think it's great the way the mood of the album changes throughout the 8 songs, but the lyric stays the same. To me the first song sounds very dark and very sad. And the way he sings those words also sounds very sad. But by the time they get to the 8th track the atmosphere has changed completely, it sounds almost euphoric! And yet he's still singing the same words... it's like he's somehow learned how to deal with whatever was bothering him. (my interpretation at least... whenever i feel sad i put on this album, and when it is over i do feel a little better). |
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yes. I still cant decide which album of theirs I like best, I havent heard the hlemmur album yet though or the full recycle remix stuff. |
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hlemmur is not so great (i think). Just little experiments. Most of the tracks are too short and don't really go anywhere. It'll be interesting to hear their next proper album though, and see if they continue in the route of hlemmur (which is alot more electronic than their other stuff). I hope so! |
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cant wait to hear their collaboration with radiohead!!! |
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Hlemmur was just a soundtrack made for a documentary film. |
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hey frag, the guitars don't seem to be making any coherent words. why don't you complain about them? or rather, are you joking? |
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it's funny, i always had a similar translation, but at the show, in a state of ecstasy, i heard completely different words... though i can't recall them, they were very profound in the moment. vaka was the only track i actually heard lyrics to though. |
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well i don't know icelandic so it feels the same it they make bird noises or sing actual words |
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In Sigur Rós, I think of the vocals as another instrument, not poetic/lyrical expression. It's not like he's simply speaking the lyrics, he's singing them with a melody. I don't think I would get any more out of the songs if he was saying real words. I love SR, btw. |
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the band said a while ago that the whole 'hopelandic' thing was a bit blown out of proportion.. its not supposed to be a language with any specific or implied meaning, so its not supposed to be analyzed as such.. i suppose aphex's 'xtal' or orbital's 'halcyon' would annoy you too? i think the repetition is to give the album a more cohesive feel, and the sounds seem to be made to possibly bring real words to mind |
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I think you are right. I f you are Icelandic and you make an english speaking record you will be seen as 'selling out' or assuming your thoughts are meant for a mass audience. I'm sure sigur ros just sing/make music how they feel, it's not meant to be interpreted a hundred different ways....it's just a few People making some emotional music, whether you can follow the text or not. |
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well, I've listened to () a nice bit, and I really don't see how it's the same phrase repeated over the whole album... the vocals in the first track sound nothing like the last as far as I can tell... |
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..haven't heard it yet. it sounds like an interesting idea though.. |
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PlaidZebra: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean - Take the last track on BoC live at Warp10... I can *always* hear 'Marcus Eoin, Marcus Eoin, Marcus Eoin' in the vocodered voice on that track, even though I haven't a fucking clue what it's actually saying. |
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sometimes repetative things are cool, they re -nforce what you've just heard, muic concrete. |
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speaking of what plaidzebra mentioned earlier,, altered states is a fucking great movie |
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