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 Now online (4)recycle Hyperflake dariusgriffin DADONCK ...and 337 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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i dunno if any of you guys are gonna think this is a pointless thread, but it's something i've been thinking about lately and i thought i'd share it with you guys i've come to a conclusion that everyone is, to a certain degree, selfish. think about it....you're with your girl/wife/boy/husband...you "suddenly" buy her/him a present just out of the blue, "just because you love them"...if you thin about it, okay, maybe 90% of it WAS just because you love them, and you want to make them happy...but the other 10% is because you want them to love/like you more and you want them to be with you in that kind of respect i think that everyone's selfish in a way anyways i think you could put that theory to things like hyelping with charities too....it is a great thing to work for and with charities, and help people, but i think that people who do, still want to feel like they've done something....so it's still kind of selfish in a way, if you know what i mean i relaly hope that i don't offend anyone with this thread, because i feel like every thread i start nowadays seems to piss people off and i don't want to cause upset (well, really i just want people on here to like me, see....there's the selfishness in that statement!) |
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selfishness is the only difference between science and religeon. in science you Should be selfish (survival of the fittest, eat all the food and leave none for teh other monkeys) and most religeons say you Should Not (do unto others...give poor people your money etc) |
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boy you have a lot of spare time on your hands ey? ;) :P i don't see how you could offend someone with this, i agree with ya :) |
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yeah but, isn't that being selfish too? if you're looking at it from a religious point of view, you give to the poor, feed and house the homeless etc etc etc you're trying to do good deeds, absolve previous sins, etc.....what for? think about it...... so that you appease god, so that he likes you, and you get to go through his big golden gates (yes i know that statement is stereotypical, but i'm not religious) it's still selfishness to a way |
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lol well, i've had a few problems, and i've had time to think i sometimes like to actually think about things instead of puting up pointless threads! :) thanks for your agreement do you have anything else to add to it? i'd be interested to hear what you have to say |
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btw i'm not trying to slam down your opinion, i'm just saying that to me, that still seems like a partly selfish act, because a religious person would do that to ensure their entrance to heaven |
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giving to someone else and getting something in return is not selfish, its only selfish if you get more then they do, other wise the good deeds either way cancel each other out. And if as you say there is no religeon, how can giving to the poor be selfish? |
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Yes I agree with your point. Lots of acts of (supposedly altruistic) kindness have at least a small element of "ulterior motive" about them. Have you read the Unabomber's Manifesto? Lots of interesting stuff about "Over socialisation" and survivalism in that. Also have you read John Forbes Nash Jr.'s game theory? I think this is actually the best balance between the two extremes, even from a purely survivalistic point of view. I'm sure you've heard the analogy of two rival companies agreeing not to advertise (actualy keeping sales the same as if they had both advertised, but saving a lot of money). This is an example of where "pure surivalism" would not of been the best option. |
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i'm not saying that there is no religion, i just don't attribute myself to a religion if anything, my religion is music ;) but the amount that is given/recieved isn't a measure of how selfish an act is, what is a measure is the motive behind the act, no matter what is gotten from it that's what i'm trying to say even the most nicest, most generous of deeds, there's still a little inkling of selfishness there...i think it's part of the human condition i think there's just degrees of selfishness, you know, like blatent selfishness, and the other kind, which is what i'm talking about :) please accept my apologies if i've offended you |
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no i haven't read any of that literature, but then again i'm not really a reader! i will have to look them up, they sound interesting :) i don't understand the point of two rival companies.... one of them would be the leading company, surely? |
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you havent offended me and i see what your saying, im just not sure that 'selfish' is the right word to use, sure you want to get something out of everything you do, but thats just instinct or whatever, selfish seems like too strong a word.... |
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but it's the only word i can think of that perfectly describes what it is like i said, i think it's just degress of selfishness (hmmmm sounds like a title of a song...*ding* i've an idea!) there's the typical spoilt brat kind of selfishness and there's the kind that i'm talking about i know what you're saying thoug, it does seem kinda harsh to say that it is selfishness....but i think that's just because there's the stereotype, you know? say the word selfish to someone and they'll most likely think of a spoilt brat |
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ever seen the friends episode 'the one where phoebe hates pbs'? some of teh points you made were made by joey, i sugest you watch that ep even if u dont watch friends usually..... |
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no i haven't seen that one i think i've missed quite a lot of them :( i'll try to look out for it if i can! i love watching freinds, it's funny as hell i think anyways :) |
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anybody else got any opinions? am i talking total bullshit? or am i, for once in my life, saying something that's right? :) |
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"i don't understand the point of two rival companies.... one of them would be the leading company, surely? " Imagine there are a few (there can be several, the example still works)leading brands in a particular field. Lets say for example, Tesco, Sainsburys and Kwiksave all have roughly equal market shares... There are 2 main reasons for advertising, making people aware of your product/service and stealing a rivals clientelle. As they are all well known already and the only benefit they would gain would be from stealing a rivals customers. Imagine one of them has a big advertising push spending 100 million on advertising. This would be a seeingly logical, survivalist thing to do. However, Imagine the other 2 match the amount of advertising to cancel it out. No one has benefited (apart from the ad companies) their market share stays the same and they are all down 100 million. It is better to have a contractual agreement not to advertise for that year and they will all be about 90 million better off (they would of course attract a few of the smaller companies customers away). This is an example of how Game Theory often makes better sense than pure selfish survivalism. |
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ohhh i see now :) thanks for clearing the murkey mess of the depths of my head |
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I think selfishness is kind of a survival instinct. Or it at least stems from that. Even in the scenario with purchasing something for your loved one because 1) you love him/her; 2) you want to be with him/her, the second motive comes from the first one. Why do you want to be with him/her? BECAUSE you love him/her. |
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exactly it must be some kind of survivalistic instinct like i said in a post above, it's part of the human condition |
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It's a common theory i think (or atleast i've heard it a couple of times before by various people :-)). You may still be right though... i don't know... i don't like to look at life that way ;-) Indeed everything you do may be out of selfish considerations... but you don't have to accept it. |
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i used to have a really bad problem thinking i was selfish. i have done lotsa bad stuff just thinking that if i can't do this i'm selfish. i used to have no idea what healthy selfishness was. and look at me now - 19 year old loser with mental problems and lots of guilt. the world is for the selfish i have noticed. |
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you're right, you don't have to accept it that's why we don't view it as being selfish :) from reading posts you've put up and replied to on here, i consider you one of the intellctuals on here :) |
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nice guys always finnish last and all that? Hehe... yeah... sometimes it seems unfair that the most selfish bastards who can elbow their way to the top usually seem to have the most succes in life :-/ But i still believe that if you try to be a "good" person (whatever that exactly means, but you know...)... you will eventually become happy. Happier atleast than the folks who think only of them temselves :-) |
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when I act I don't think about whether I'm being selfish or not,. and I don't particularly care either,.. |
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yeah but the thing is you just get stepped on. i'm really flat you know. |
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wow, an intellectual? moi? :-p I never looked at myself like that... but thanks anyway :-) I do consider that a very nice compliment! But don't underestimate yourself, this was quite a philosofical topic that you started here! |
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I became far more selfish once I started taking drugs. Right now I'm smacked out on heroin and I won't share it with anyone. |
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lol yeppers, you seem to be a very intellectual and philosophical person thank you for your compliment too i try to be smart, but i think i'm probably just blagging my way through! heh |
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it is sad that it seems only the selfish win....and okay, maybe they do win....they win the big houses, and the flash cars etc etc etc but i can probably garuntee that 99% are not actually happy |
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and if they are, they're a sad breed |
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In my eyes you're all stars! |
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"i'm really flat you know." lol ;-) yeah but like you said you are only 19 years old. If you just keep this up and not become a selfish person, eventually people will start noticing it and respecting you for it. I may sound idealistic, but i really do believe that. And what the hell, what the world needs now is more idealists! ;-) |
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you too bill :) |
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my point exactly... selfishness can get you a long way in the materialistic world... but in the end you have to ask yourself if that is really so important. |
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surrounded is right if you stick to your guns, people will take notice, and you will be known as that lovely girl/woman/lady/person (sorry, but i don't wanna offend you by labeling you with something that you might find offensive) who isn't selfish :) |
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i'm as flat as eric! anyway, i will try to keep up bewing me. sometimes i just feel like a complete failure. |
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exactly my definition of happiness is being with the person you love, living in an area where you're not scared to go outside for fear of being persecuted/attacked/killed/mugged/beaten up and living in a home that you have shaped and characterised |
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"i try to be smart, but i think i'm probably just blagging my way through!" hehe, ssssssh, best keep that to yourself ;-) But seriously though... it's not like i have read all the work of the great philosophers or anything like that :-p If i really do sound intelligent, it's only because my own thoughts and theories and what i've accidentally picked up here and there... just blagging my way through so to speak ;-) |
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i know that i don't know you, or the circumstances for your impending sense of failure, but i don't think you're a failure you're still here, and that is proof that you're not a failure surely that must count for something? :) |
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lol see? you've got a point there too!!! |
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he, my name is erik ;-) I'm not flat though :-p Doctor said i need to lose some weight :-s There's too much erik in this world. |
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i've been rapidly loosing weight lately :o dunno why. no reason to it. |
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could be stress? i've heard that stress can affect weight? |
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well it can't be from posting on this board ;-) I post like crazy but nothing happens. Anyway, if i remember correctly you live with your fiancee, and you recently sold your first painting... how could you possibly think of yourself as a faillure :-) |
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my fiance isn't happy living here :( |
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ohw... That's pretty bad :-( And when you say "here", do you mean finland? Or not happy living with you? :-o |
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i agree with you oscillik... i'm pretty sure everything we do, we do it for ourselves - as indirectly as it can be. like you said... we help the poor, the needy, friends etc. because it make us feel good about it (or at least we have hope it will)... now if, in cases like that, we make other people happy too in our selfishness, this isn't a problem is it? |
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exactly no it isn't a problem if you're helping someone else out with this kind of selfishness thank you for your support with my theory :) |
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but... would cases of depressed people giving away things they like just because they don't care anymore - though being buried so deep into their cocoon of sadness and total lack of caring/motivation that they wouldn't feel happy about making good actions? just nothing at all? maybe that would exist though... in that case that wouldn't be selfishness... (would it be selfish from the people to accept what the depressed one gives them?) |
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"this isn't a problem is it?" it depends... i once knew a guy who said to me that he hoped, he would one day see a little child drowning in a lake or something, so that he could rescue it and people would see him as a hero... that made me quite sick :-s But normally, in cases such as oscillik described, i don't think it is a problem... it doesn't matter to the people you're helping what your motivations are. It's just that you can feel guilty about it. But like i said, you don't have to accept being selfish. You can always keep trying to truly do things just for other people, just because you want them to be happier. It's an ongoing struggle, but still... |
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