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alright, i always get confused on beat patterns or just completely forget. a 4/4 looks like this: o...o...o...o...o...o...o...o, etc. etc. so does a 5/4 look like this?: o....o....o....o....o....o....o....o and a 7/4 would be?: o......o......o......o......o......o......o and what do other other signatures look like, such as a 7/16 or 9/16 or 3/16. there's no such thing as an 8/5 or a 7/3 is there? |
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i don't think you usually get /16 signatures (then again im not sure about patterns in software an stuff). if you had 7/16, it would be o......o......o......o......etc but it would be 4 times as fast as 7/4 wouldn't it? because it's 7 quarter beats in a bar. you couldn't have 8/5 or 7/3 because 5 and 3 aren't beat divisions. i.e. 2 = minim = 2 beats 4 = crotchet = 1 beat 8 = quaver = 1/2 beat 16 = semiquaver = 1/4 beat 32 = semidemiquaver = 1/8 beat |
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yeah, i didn't think you could have x/3's and x/5's and whatever else ending with anything besides 4. what the hell are triplets, folks? |
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the second nunmber is what kind of notes, the first number is how many per bar. IE 3/4 is three quarter notes per bar. 7/8 is seven eigth notes per bar etc... |
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it has nothing to do with tempo. |
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7/16 would be 7 sixteenth notes in a bar wouldn't it? the reason you'd write it as 7/16 is because you obviously can't write it as 3.5/8 or 1.75/4 now can you... take 3/4 for instance... wouldn't it be the same if you wrote it as 3/4, 6/8 or 12/16? I mean 3/4 means three quarter notes per bar, 6/8 means 6 eighth notes which is the same as 3 quarter notes, and so on... I don't know if this explains anything... |
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yes, see, great minds think alike... I know how triplets sound, but I'm afriad I can't explain em to ya... |
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ah but, for example: 7/4 at say 240 bpm would sound exactly the same as 7/16 at 60 bpm wouldn't it? |
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for drums 3/4 is the same as 6/8. However for piano they are different, it has to do with how you actually play the notes on the piano. |
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7/4 and 7/16 really have nothing to do with tempo... 7/4 means that there are 7 quarter notes in a bar, and 7/16 means there are 7 sixteenth notes, which would be what, like 1.75/4, however you wouldn't write it as that, but as 7/16... |
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and triplets are for eg. three beats spaced evenly over the space of two beats. like you could fit two triplets into the space of a bar of four beats |
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it'd help if you did the little illustrations for me using the 0...0...0...0...0 thingy, if you wouldn't mind. |
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yeah, I used to take piano lessons... but a lot of this stuff has been forgotten... |
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yes, that sounds about right about the triplets... |
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you can't really draw triplets, and i can't explain how they sound aaaargh. just let me justify this: "7/4 at say 240 bpm would sound exactly the same as 7/16 at 60 bpm" 7/16 means 7 quarter beats in a bar 7/4 means 7 whole beats in a bar. therefore, over the time taken for one bar of 7/4, you could fit four bars of 7/16 at a constant tempo. |
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gah! just make some pattern illustrations of these 7/4 and 7/16 and 9/4 and 9/16! my brain is being wracked...i think i'll just go back to making beats like i normally do (randomly). |
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that is wrong... 7/16 means 7 sixteenth notes in a bar, and 7/4 means seven quarter notes... but man, the 7/16 could be faster then the 7/4 or vice versa... it really has nothing to do with tempo... |
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Time signature doesnt have anything to do with tempo because bars arent a uniform length from song to song. You could write a piece of music in 3/4 and then change it to 5/8 and it would sound exactly the same, it jsut has to do with where the bars are divided to make it easier for the composer and player. |
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exactly... I mean you could write a song in 8/4 time, or 16/4 time, or whatever, and it's all the same as 4/4... it's just easier to write in 4/4... and when you're playing in a band the conductor is really the one who lets the band know the speed... and I guess the composer gives some indication of the speed he wants the piece to be played at, but the conductor conveys this to the band, not the time signiture, or even the sheet music itself... |
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hmmm |......|......|......|......|......|......|......| 7/16 | . . . . . . | . . . . . . | . . . . . . | 7/8 | . . . . . . | . . . . 7/4 |
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its really hard to draw it and have it make sense because there are all kinds of different 4/4 patterns, you dont have to keep the beats in the same places. |
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seriously, this is right: "7/16 means 7 quarter beats in a bar 7/4 means 7 whole beats in a bar. therefore, over the time taken for one bar of 7/4, you could fit four bars of 7/16 at a constant tempo." who's got the g4 music theory? :) p.s. you may be higher qualified than me and i may look stupid..:) |
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well house is a standard 4/4 beat and it goes: 0...0...0...0...0...0...0...0 |
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i give up and i'm just going to put sounds where ever i want to. |
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A triplet is putting an odd number in an even measure. 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + = standard 1 e + 2 e + 3 e + 4 e + =same length, only with triplets. Its just worded different, but its still a standard 4/4 bar. |
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pronounce like this: 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1-e and a 2-e and a 3-e and a 4-e |
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it sounds like youre saying every song that is written in 4/4 is the same tempo. |
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no, i just understand what a 4/4 beat sounds like, but not any other beat. that is, if you're talking to me taoist. |
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man, 7/16 means 7 sixteenth notes... seriously... but, seven sixteenth notes could come in the form of 2 eighth notes and one sixteenth note, 2 eighth notes and 3 sixteenth notes... a 4/4 beat could be composed of one whole note, two half notes, 1 half note and two quarter notes, or four quarter notes... the ?/4, or ?/16 just refers to the number of that type of beat... in a 4/4 bar you have 4 quarter beats I guess you could say, but you can also write it as 8/8 as you can also have 8 eighth beats, or 16/16 as you can have 16 sixteenth beats... it just so happens that with 8/8 and 16/16 you can break it down to an easier to read 4/4... with 7/16 you can't... |
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I was replying to hannibal :) 4/4 can sound like all kinds of stuff, as you say house is 4/4 but most hip hop is also 4/4. |
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you can use the above diagrams because the beats in a bar are always in the same place. this does not mean the notes have to be in the same place as the beats. the notes could be off beat like some reggae rhythms - this is syncopation. |
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i think i understand now. the higher the first number and smaller the last number, the quicker the pattern will sound. the lower the first number and higher the last, the slower the pattern will sound, unless of course you're talking about 4/4, 8/8, 16/16, etc., etc. |
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ok, I'm listening to Flying in a Blue Dream by Joe Satriani... this song is in 4/4... Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel is in 7/4... listen to those songs and hear the difference... |
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the beats definitely do not have to be in the same place... thats why house doesnt sound like hip hop. You can write 4/4 with only 3 "drum hits" ina bar,a dn its still 4/4, its just hwo many would fit if you WERE to put a beat on every bar. Of course in 4/4 you can also include hits between the bars and wherever you like. |
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god damnit, this all happened when i read an autechre review and the guy talked about what beat patterns each songs were. |
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no, it has nothing to do with tempo... 4/4 just means there are four beats in the bar... 8/8 means the same thing, as does 16/16... as I guess even 32/32 means the same thing... 4/4 just means that you can fit 4 quarter notes in the bar... 8/8 means you can fit 8 eighth notes in the bar, but 2 eighth notes equals a quarter note, so it's the same thing... |
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I think there is also some confusion as to what "4 beats in a bar" means, it doesnt mean there are 4 actual drum hits in the bar.For example in house there is usually a kick on every beat. In hip hop you could have a kick on the first two beats of the bar, nothing on the third beat in the bar, and a snare on the fourth beat, and its still 4/4, because you COULD have a hit on the third beat. |
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if you count to the song, you count out four beats to a bar... |
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of course you can have tons of grace notes and everything and do whatever you like. If you make a drum loop with 17 different drum sounds in it it isnt 17/128 |
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yes of course, but that doesnt mean there is a hit on each beat. |
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sorry taoist - when i talk about the beat, i mean what you would count. in a 4/4 piece that would be 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4, etc. in a 4/4 piece, the beats are in the same place in the bar all the way through. the notes are in different places. i think i/you was getting beat and note mixed up. |
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i know all about the sounds in the middle and how they don't affect the pattern connotation, i'm just using sounds to demonstrate that i know where a quarter note begins and what not. |
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yeah I was confused :) of course the beats are always in the same place. Do you agree that tempo is independant of time signature yet though? :) |
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hey hevquip have you got a sequencer on your comp? (i remember youre a hardware guy) if so i can email you some midi files of different time signatures. |
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yes I know that... I'm refering to the straight 1,2,3,4-1,2,3,4-1,2,3,4 as the beats... |
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the four of us should have a conference call. |
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Those who can etc. do you remember Tao? |
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no i dont have a sequencer. understand everything now though i think. the thing that throws me though is that is you have something like a 7/4, does that mean that all the beats have to be a symmetrical distance from each other? |
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well this is how you would count it with your mouth: 4/4= one,two,three,four,one,two,three,four etc 7/4= one,two,three,four,five,six,seven,one,two etc... So pretend you are patting your knee on each beat, you pat your knee seven times in 7/4 before you repeat and only four times in 4/4 before you repeat. |
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so a bar is longer in 7/4, but that doesnt mean it sounds slower, though a song that is exactly 4 minutes long that is in 7/4 will have fewer bars in it than a 4 minute song that is written in 4/4. |
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