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 (nobody)...and 343 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2613457 Today 3 Topics 127500 |
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Who here thinks compulsory group/team work is rubbish? I find that far from having members with different skills, you just get good/bad members. The bad members leach from the others, diluting any benefit of the good member's work and therefore making the better members less inclined to work. I'm talking about job/school/uni work here... I suspect the teamworking craze in managment is all about getting a little more work out of the drones by making the good people work harder. |
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Depends if you get to pick the members or not... btw you look just like this kid from my school |
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I have some group work to do and it sucks because the rest of the group are always away. ie I do all the work! Fuckers |
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Ha ha, I must have a really common face, people say that all the time. No we didn't get to pick the teams and it sucks. Part of my degree grade is based on the work of other people. This is stupid. Quernstone: Similair situation here... |
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Remind me what you're studying again Ceri. |
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Computing, we're doing a database for the Barry dental practice, one of the other guys is doing his fair share of the actual database, but I'm doing all the documnentation and code annotation. And I've got other C/W for friday that I haven't started yet. |
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I'm still doing all the write up on my own in the labs. |
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Id rather work on my own man. |
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I'll kill someone if I have to do groupwork in my final year. I don't like team sports either. |
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Aaagh... team sports... |
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Either you're stuck with a bunch of spanners who can't run/pass or you're the one who lets the team down. Bad either way. And if you win, the glory of your achievement is diluted. I think the same theory applies to communism... |
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Yeah Ceri, cos that's why the corporate execs and shareholders do all the work and so get all the reward! We just get the scraps from their table while idley watching them do the hard graft, pah! |
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Dont get me started on communism man... ;) |
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I mean small scale communism, e.g. a shared house. I clean a lot, the others make it dirty, I lose my will to clean (as it always gets dirty), so it's dirty all the time. I think we need a new fascism where there is a system where wages are measured by your value to the state and what you actually do. For example, a councillor would earn about as much as a secretary, whereas an architect would earn more. Sorry to have turned this into a communism debate again, but groupwork is enough to convince me that communism doesn't work- people get lazy as they get no direct benefit from their work... |
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I get a shit wage, little/no status and have a tedious job so why do I work and not just laze about. I reject the system's values so why would I work? |
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You're admin right? Under my system you'd get more money as you perform an "essential" function. Not trying to win you up, but why don't you change jobs if it's so bad? I've been in some awful jobs before so I just got a different job... |
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i'm doing computing too. My seminar is about data hadling and it consequences on society. It is interesting stuff but I get fucked off that I have to do all the research. I enjoy it as I dig it but hey. We all have to pull our weight. HAng in there Ceri. We'll make it through this course if it is the last thing we do! |
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Teamwork/groupwork call it what you will, is just something that you have to get on with. I think it is a very important aspect of university work. It teaches you to get on with people in a group. Obviously the stronger members of the group will tend to take more of a leadership role, but it is all preparation for when you are out there in the 'real' world. In all walks of life you are going to have team members who 'leach' off others. I think that the end result or 'project' that you are doing is not some much important for what it is, but more so, the coordination of the group into actually achiving something as a 'team'. It is often the case, however that the stronger team members need to be 'responsible' for the others, in making them aware of their lack of input - very much so as it is in the 'real' world. So, think of it as an 'exercise' in life skills - that's all they're preparing you for. How to deal with people. |
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My own personal opinion of students who come out of universities with computing degrees in recent years, may have the 'know how' but lack the communication skills to deliver what they have learnt! (No offense to anyone here!) |
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What do you define as an essential function? A builder has one of the most esential functions in our society yet a city banker who produces nothing gets a large share of what is produced by the builder via the building company. |
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There are one or two people who I work with, who are 'experts' in their field, but because they cannot communicate with people, because they lack the 'people skills' there are not very effective in carrying out their duties. If all these people are gonna do is just sit in an office and programme code then that's fair enough. |
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I see what you mean Jonesy, but if I had my own company (from scratch) of which I then employed people to run, and we made enough profit - I could sit back and 'reep' the benefits of my company couldn't i? |
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...anyway, as a team-member myself I gotta go and do something constructive myself to keep the 'leaches' in there places! |
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You could and it would make complete sense. The only problem is (I assume) you're like me and don't have the capital necessary to set up your business. This is the crux of Marxism. We don't have property/capital and so are forced to sell our labour power to those who do. This is the basis of exploitation and the reason I loathe capitalism. I don't mean to sound like a twat but my freedom is inhibited by this class structure and my ability to develop myself more fully is blocked because I have to work here. Its not only about a disparity in wages but also a disparity in power. I have no power. |
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I am doing my course part-time so me and my other group members are in fact already professsional people, who should by rights know what "the real world" is all about. In fact one of them has a 'top end job'. People are lazy basically, whether you are 19 or 46 years old. |
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I've found that at university, people contribute much more when working as a group. The biggest problem I have is too much distraction, you talk so much that you never actually get anything done hehe. I know one of my friends here has to work on a 30page research paper for Intro to Mass Media, but it's not that bad because he's working with 7 other people, and each person does however many pages. There's still individual responsiblity. |
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The lazy are those at the top of our society who reap the benefits we produce. When people of our class get lazy its because they're smart. If you work hard for somebody who is the sole beneficiary of your efforts you are a fool or you have no choice. The harder you work the poorer you become because the richer your exploiter becomes. The more you produce; the more he retains and the less you recieve. |
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I'm with you there Jonsey. As we speak I am saving my money to start a business( no breakfast and only a sandwich for lunch). I hope to break the mold somehow. If I become a boss I will start a partneship which allows people to buy into the managment in a mortgage kind of way. I want to reward people for their efforts. A bit like John Lewis. In fact I have so much repect for them. Why hasn't the JL model caught on elsewhere? |
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The problem comes when there is a slump in the market and you enter into fierce competition with your rivals. When a slump forces you to either take a cut in profits or a cut in wages you will have to sack some of the workforce and cut their wages. That is the logic of capitalism. Profit is the objective every time and bollocks to humanity, the environment and progress. |
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And at some stage, no matter how good your company is, you'll be undercut/bought out by another company simply because they're morally bankrupt enough to do something you're not prepared to do in order to be able to make more profits/deliver at a lower price. I loathe the extreme capitalism as much as I disapprove of communism. I think we need some sytem that falls in the middle... |
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Ah, and so we come to Blair's Third Way. Capitalism can and will not be restrained; there are no half measures. Even right wing economists look to Marx and his analysis of capitalism because they know its value. Its nothing to do with morals. Capitalists will always go after the profits on offer regardless; hence wars and state repression. To paraphrase the great German revolutionary Rosa Luxembourg: We are faced with a choice; either socialism or barbarism. And if you look around you can see the barbarity of the system. |
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"Its nothing to do with morals. Capitalists will always go after the profits on offer regardless; hence wars and state repression." I agree to an extent, for the kind of pathological personality needed to succeed in business at an international level this is certainly true. However, I'd say that I'm a capitalist and I wouldn't do stuff like nestle and US companies do re: food patents in 3rd world countries. |
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Yes but most don't have such scruples when the almighty dollar is waving at them. The problem is that we have no democratic control over the corporations, or in fact the state, hence the work you do with your Christian organisation. I'm not for state capitalism/Soviet communism. I'm for true democracy and worker's ownership and control of the means to produce what we need. How anyone could raise objections (other than the rich) to such a project I find eternally baffling. |
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Finishing the last few bits of the groupwork project concerned, one other person helped, but the other 2 were so inept that if they stayed I'd have wasted more time teaching than doing stuff. I'm in lectures till 8 then it looks like I've got another 2 hours work on this project before my time is my own. 9-5 types have it easy. |
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Poor Ceri! So much work and so little time! ;) I'm sure you'll cope! Sometime you have to do the honorable thing, and carry the team! It's called 'dedication' ! |
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You think '9-5s' have it easy!! For those 'dedicated' enough, like myself, it doesn't end at 5 o'clock....I find myself working in the evenings producing handouts and presentations....I find I don't have the time for it in the daytime. Some '9-5ers' do have it easy, but that depends entirely on the function they play within the organisation. If they just have a clerks job sat at a desk then yes you are right, but to make a generalisation like that is wrong! Just you wait till June matey!!!! Ha ha ha ha ! ! ! The real world will be waiting for you, with sharp fangs - you have no concept of how easy you have it!!! |
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And speaking as a '9-5 type' I'm now off to teach my nightclass shortly at 7-9pm for my sins! (One of the three I do each week!) *sighs* "Just think of the cash $$$" I say to myself!! |
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Yeah but poor old Ceri speand all his time on here instead of doing his work the naughty boy. |
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Dont we all...? |
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No. I work really hard here and always do my best at my job. Ahem. |
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Yeah me too. "Work hard, play hard". That is my philosophy. (have you ever noticed it it always complete wankers who say this kind of thing. Urhghh I wretch whenever I hear that sentence) |
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