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I know some people don't like KRKs, but I've liked everything I've heard from them. I currently have a pair of Rokit 6 monitors, that I've very happy with. For various reasons, I'm considering adding a KRK ERGO to this setup and was wondering if anyone had any experience of using one as a soundcard? I use Reason exclusively now (which still lacks Midi-Out) and I'm slowly selling of my old Midi gear. Plus, the one midi controller I will use with it (Nektar Panorama) is Midi over USB, so no Midi=no problem for me these days. That aside, are there any downsides to using one as a soundcard? I'll be using it as an equivalent to a Mackie Big Knob and for Room Correction too, of course. Also, once funds permit, I'd like to supplement the above setup with one of the KRK subwoofers. The 12sHO, seems to be predominantly for 5.1 mixing and looks like it might be overkill for my needs (although reproducing bass to 29Hz is sweet), plus it is fucking spendy. The 12s and 10s both look like they'd be good for use in this setup, but I was wondering how much better in the real world the 12s is and if it is worth the additional asking price? I do make DnB and Dubstep, so Bass reproduction is important to me and I dislike wearing headphones for long periods of time. Noise/Neighbours will not be a problem. Thanks in advance Zilty. |
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I haven't used KRKs but I have some opinions about subs in your monitoring setup. Let's talk. |
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What's your opinion? Up until now, I have used my HD-25 cans to hear the really low stuff and then 'previewed' it on my 2KW PA for a rough idea of what it would sound like on a big system. I've not had a sub as part of my monitoring setup for almost 4 years now (and that was a hifi one) Any tips/things I should look out for? |
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None of this is backed by science but in my experience if you are producing music that is as reliant on bass as dnb its worth have the sub. They are notoriously hard to tune for your room but that's not the point. I feel you can nail your mix in a pair of monitors. The sub comes into play only when you need to feel what's going to happen to the audience. The difference between 10 and 12 seems trivial to me. For tight mixing and hifi listening those are better bets. In my old studio I had two cheap 18s and they were sloppy but they got the point across as to what my bass would do on a system. If you already have a system to bomb bass through I'd probably get the 12 if I had the money though a 10 will still wet panties for mixdowns. I unfortunately have no advice on which brand to buy, where to place it etc. I just know that bass collects in weird places and if you find one you should stand in it and try not to get dizzy just for giggles. |
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I'm not an expert but for bass in most rooms, especially small rooms where bass is likely to be a problem, you can just use bass traps made of rockwool or similar in the corners with a bit of space between the wall and the trap if you can afford it. Thickness and density of the material you use is important. You can get a more even bass response this way, less bass build up at different points in the room. Room treatment is important for bass I think. |
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the best way to find proper placement for your sub in your room is to place the subwoofer where you will most often be listening from, then find the spot in your room where the tone is the loudest/cleanest. that's where your sub goes. i haven't heard the KRK subs, but in my experience their monitors are really kind of abrasive and loud, not very neutral, and i'd expect similar performance from their subs. unfortunately i don't have any specific alternatives in mind - the sub i'm using is an 8" x-sub from av123, which while sounding amazing in a small space, the company's now defunct and you can't get them anywhere. also, just to reiterate, some advice from flylo that i heard second hand: "always make music with the biggest, loudest subwoofer you can." |
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"always make music with the biggest, loudest subwoofer you can." Ha yeah! Like I said those twin 18" subs weren't very high quality but I could make my whole house shake. It turns an 808 kick from a music thing into a sex thing. |
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pretty much every bass sound i ever make is an 808 kick compressed and looped in some way |
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Thanks folks. Torture Garden: The ERGO is supposed to (unless you've got some sort of really weird room, which I don't) sort out the bass. The trick is, it throws all the DSP at correcting <=450hz, rather than the highs. The rationale being, there is most to be gained in terms of 'cleaning up' there. Hedphukkerr: I'd not heard that trick re: locating the sub before, but it sounds worth trying. A lot of people I've met have said the same about the KRKs being harsh, but for me, when the volume on each one is turned down to -6db they sound really clear. When they're sat at 0db, it does sound a bit to loud and harsh; I've no idea why the default is like that, never mind why they have the option to boost it to +6db (where this gets even worse). I suppose my bias for their subs is based on the principle that I like their monitors and the subs are likely to have a compatible sound. I don't know about making music on the biggest, loudest sub I can. I have made tracks on my PA system (just for LOLs) and I find it fatigues my ears really quickly. That said, a former band mate, who dips in and out of being a professional musician, loved it and he really likes having things very loud whilst we were working. We ended up mixing using two sets of cans a lot of time, so we could each have our own control over the volume. |
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I haven't read much about it but if the ERGO compensates for your listening space then I assume it does some EQing. That is quite dangerous because your mixes won't translate well to other spaces, that'd be my worry. I'd be interested to hear how well they do translate. As you probably know, you want to keep the mix 'neutral' so it sounds good on all systems. |
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sorry, not the mix itself neutral but the mixing environment of course. |
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The idea is that it corrects the imperfections in the room so that it sounds neutral; IE it's all about giving you a theoretically perfect (uncoloured) room, so that you don't end up making a mix that sounds good in your room, but pants elsewhere. Most people who try them seem to really like them. I really want to hear one in the flesh in someone's studio (in a store/show is a really bad place to demo one), but don't know anyone with one. |
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The problem with this is that it will occur in a mismatch between the perceived (altered by the system for your benefit) mixing scenario and actual mixing scenario (the real world space and its imperfections masked by the system which still exists!). The differences between these has implications for your mixes when played in other spaces and on different systems. Anyway, I don't mean to go on and on. Good luck with it all, hope it pans out well for you. |
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Thanks TG. It's really complex to explain without a whiteboard and lots of gesticulation, but I think that in the way I intend to use it, the ERGO would 'know' and be able to correct for that. |
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i think what he's saying is that while it attempts to compensate, it's not good enough to replace the real deal of proper room setup. white board vs real world application |
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Absolutely and I don't expect it to. I just want it to result in a better end mix when working on monitors than I get with my current room. A perfect room is always going to be better than any sort of room correction. :) As an aside, I thought TG was a girl, but I might be wrong. Not that it matters in the context of this thread, of course. I've been reading some more on the sound quality of it and it sounds impressive. I also think having everything with one vendor from the firewire card on my PC through to my ears will make it all "play nice together" and hopefully be designed to sound good when used in conjunction with one another. One thing I emailed KRK about (that they've still not responded to) is how best to connect this all up. There's fundamentally two options: 1) Connect Monitors to channel A and Sub to channel B. This way, you could switch between Sub on and sub off, without a footpedal. 2) Connect Sub to channel A and Monitors to the Sub. This way, I could have channel B free for the PA system for 'testing' how tracks sound on a big sound system. Any ideas on whether option 2 would introduce more latency (my instinct is that technically, 1 could be a couple of ms faster)? |
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I'm not sure I'd want something that dynamically tunes itself following lord KNOWS what algorithm. Perfect room or not, you'll get to know your speakers after several mixdowns and listens on other systems and you'll be able to anticipate how things will sound out in the wild. The thought of speakers using voodoo to change their freq response is scary because you might have a 'different speaker' every time you go to mix. |
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TG are you a girl? |
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Yes, a lot of it is knowing the speaker and 'what works' for your speaker and room and how that translates to your iPod, car stereo, house party or whatever. The voodoo is supposed to be a one-off configuration for the room (well, at least until you move furniture, change speaker placement, get new monitors, etc.) so you could learn the voodoo'd sound and how that translates to the real world (just as before). Maybe I'm worrying too much, a lot of my best stuff was written on a laptop, often through the built-in speakers and then mastered after the fact through my headphones. |
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