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In my journey to get to know the other sex better (theoretically), i came across 'Feminism'. Now, after studying PUA stuff and other related literature, it is kinda intersting to see what Feminism is all about. Honestly I don't know much about it. But my intitial emotional reaction was, that feminists want to destroy a fragile part of my identity and that is especially painful because i was always socially akward. So. What do you feel or think about feminism? |
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get naked. |
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Feminism is a logical consequence of the male ignorism with respect to the female point of view. You might also want to read up on Norah Vincent's "Self-Made Man". It's about the author dressing up as a man for a year, so it gives you a nice image of how a woman experiences being a man. |
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feminism threatens my puny existence. |
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The PUA stuff I read is not considered total bullshit by feminists. Some basic 'advice'. I thought this would be common knowledge. Why do I still feel guilty? |
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I have no idea Monoid. I will say that no one size fits all. Your a pyramid scheme dude in my opinion. If there's a fragile part of your identity its that freudian/nietzschism |
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Because deep down you have embraced your social ineptness as some safe haven. And your super-ego is not ready to let this idea go - to keep it in a Freudian context. Your guilt is a symptom of this inner turmoil. *Freud pose* |
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I only know that it means work to put the theory into practice and train my social skills. This has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism just sheds a light on all these things |
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feminism has nothing to do with women, you're barking up the wrong tree. but being a fuckwit you knew that anyway and i suspect was just looking for some hidiot (sic) to argue with. |
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stick to your other account james |
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Feminism has nothing to do with women? What? |
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I find it quite laughable how feminists argue amongst themselves about what a feminist is and what it stands for. I don't think I've ever come across another intellectual/philosophical group quite so fractured. The whole feminism and pornography dichotomy is particularly amusing. I also find their notion that a woman who wants to stay home and raise the children is somehow automatically stupid and/or poorly-educated rather offensive. I'm friends with a few female doctors and successful businesswomen who choose to do this. Mentally and in terms of their education, they could wipe the floor with these screeching pseudo-intellectuals. Naturally, the feminists can't acknowledge that perhaps it's a person making an informed decision that makes their own life more fulfilling and enjoyable. No, it must always be men and society conspiring to get the sisters down. Oh yeah, vilifying men in general is a spectacularly hypocritical thing a lot of them do, that pisses me off. |
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how also ceri you hate women how come |
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screeching, really now |
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those strawwomen are downright hysterical |
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You seem to be implying here that because some women are 'successful' (lol) in their careers, they are automatically more intelligent. That's a tiny little bit simple minded! It's easy to set up a straw(wo)man call it Feminism and beat the shit out of it, and that's what you're doing there Ceri JC, with your story about women staying home, you're being divisive and it says more about you than it does about Feminism. |
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This has little to do with feminism. Modern feminist aren't anti-porn either. |
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Perhaps "screeching" was a poor choice of word. I use it to describe anyone who incessantly shouts their learnt by rote argument in a piercing manner, utterly convinced that they are correct and having no interest in hearing the opposition. The point I was making was that I find it offensive when a pigshit-thick, pseudo-intellectual feminists (and you must concede, there are more than a few), male or female, criticises the choice of a woman, who happens to be both educated and successful, to stay at home. The fact that they are educated and successful is relevant because it shows that: A) They were afforded opportunities that were, if not exactly the same, at least on a global-scale, very close to those they would have had in their environment, had they been born male. B) They have not been forced into being a "mother" or "housewife" because they were unable to get ahead in a male dominated workplace. They have already succeeded and then chose to leave that arena of their own volition, because raising a family and making a home was more important to them. I find people not respecting this choice* as offensive to the intellect of the women concerned. * when it is a choice and there hasn't been any coercion and it isn't born of a lack of alternatives, or due to a "default", or through general ignorance and a lack of education. Monoid: That's a very sweeping statement. Many are pro-porn, many are not. Generally speaking, over time, the balance is swinging towards not being anti-porn, but there are still significant enough numbers who are anti-porn that you cannot disregard them as some statistically insignificant side-branch of contemporary feminism. That it is such a strong, divisive and contentious issue is what I was alluding to. I'm for equality. I don't use the term "feminism" because of the lack of agreement as to what it entails (it makes "an anarchist" easy to define in comparison) and hence scope for someone to misunderstand what is meant by it. |
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Monoid, I only just clocked your mention of the PUA stuff. That stuff is (emotionally and morally) terrible and in my opinion won't help you meet women that you'll have any sort of meaningful interaction with. I can see it might be useful to get an idiot into bed with you, but if you're reading up on feminisim to get to know the fairer sex better, that's probably not what you're after. One of my friends is into it and I won't deny its efficacy (if all you're after is a shag), but I have little sympathy when he bleats about how he keeps on meeting "the wrong sort of woman". |
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donna haraway is fun. but probably not for finding a girlfriend (unless she's into cyborgs). |
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If I didn't know better I'd say this Monoid character was some sort of serial Internet "troll". |
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I'm impressed with your masculinity/relationship problem Monoid. |
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instead of waisting time on reading about feminism...just go to a disco, pickup a girl, shag her and be a happy human |
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women rule the world..deal with it. |
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Women are like quantum physics innit, they're something and nothing at the same time and no one can fully understand them. |
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off topic: are you advocate's dupe? |
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*wasting, lol |
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No, I just really like avocados, even have a tree. |
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I read (almost) everything on the subject, not particularly to get to know women better, but because of my peesonal interest. Now, the PU describtion matches nicley with feminist describtion of the 'Nice guy' phenomenon. Whats not to like about this? Does PU just work on...well not so bright women? I take care of all of them anyway, dumb or not, it is the way of the alpha. |
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I am too fucking scared and uneasy to do that. |
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Ok nice..advocado's are wonderfull..I think they won't gro in our wet country |
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mon-gol-oid 2: the way of the alpha |
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I can understand and respect that, and also admit it's easier said than done |
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Can you recommend some of this "moralistic" pornography Monoid? |
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My girlfriend is an attractive 6ft blonde. She gets hit on a lot, usually by PUA types. She thinks it's strange that it works with some girls, because to her, it's incredibly transparent what they are doing. One of her friends' doctorate is, in laymen's terms, studying males' behaviour when sharking women. She too says that it is so patently obvious (particularly as she now knows all the little 'tells' in the body language, the conversational tricks, etc.) that she doesn't get why people fall for it, although she says it's effective on a many women. Most of my female friends are pretty intelligent. They too seem immune to PUA's charms themselves. The few women I consider friends who are less intellectually well-endowed tend to be the ones who get roped in by it and almost always regret it later. |
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I don't know much about PUA stuff. But i see the benefits of it, to get men actually started to talk with women. The alpha role model also appeals to me. If you incooperate it with your OWN personality, you don't come over as artificial. And i think it works on every kind of women. Social skills are universal. All behaviour seems forced and unnatural at first, i learned that from cognitive behavioural therapy. But it important to accept yourself. |
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Actually the first thing the PU community tells you is, to talk to everyone (male or female) until you get confortable with talking to strangers. |
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I think being able to be comfortable talking to strangers is a far more useful (and broad) skill than just talking to women, to the sole purpose of picking them up. Although of course, it'd come in handy for picking up women too. I'd suggest you force yourself into situations where you have no choice but to interact with strangers, to get used to that first. I never used to be that comfortable doing it until I had to learn it for my job and it became second nature after a few years. I can understand your being alpha attracting females, but that's if it's disassociated from the "scripted" behaviour of a PUA. Intelligent women, at least those used to being hit on, can usually spot a PUA type patter a mile off. I think it probably actually decreases your chances with them, as they shut down because they see you as just another PUA douche rather than someone who is really alpha or worth talking to. |
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When i get to work, i am usually to tired to talk. I can talk about work related things, but nothing else. My co-workers don't know me and i don't know them. I changed my workplace 3 times this year, but i behave the same everywhere. I guess i come off as a pretty serious and stiff person. |
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The job that got me into the habit required me to be in different sites every couple of days and I needed to get information from people at each of these places, so I had no choice but to overcome my reluctance to talk to the people there in order to find these things out. |
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Yes. But did you talk about non-work related stuff with them? Your life, hobbies, opinions, feelings, etc? Self disclosure isn't really neccessary (it constantly happens tho) when a person talks about work related things. So i guess that makes it easier. |
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I try and keep politics and religion out of it, but pretty much anything else I'll happily talk about with colleagues and clients. I found that making small talk about non-work topics, just to pass the time and be sociable helps build rapport and makes the work related interactions more enjoyable. There's a guy in one of my offices I'm good friends with, to the extent that we have been on short holidays together, we go drinking, I have have dinner with his wife and kids, etc. He's one of those few people who I would stay in touch with and still be friends with, even if I left this job. The thing is, just due to the jobs we do, we should hate each other as our roles require that we're in constant conflict. The fact that we're good friends makes the arguments and raised voices (which I normally dislike) more bearable, because we know that on a personal level we like each other. I think even if you didn't really want to become "friends" with people, talking to them about non-work things will improve your work relationship with them and who knows, you may find some common ground and that you actually like each other. |
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You can dress it up however you like; It's called being gay. |
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What's being gay? Having friends, being uncomfortable talking to colleagues or being a feminist? |
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All of the above (Oldest messages first!) |
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shhhhh...Alphas only itt. |
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What is this ethical porn you speak of? Years ago the dissident feminists aka Camille Paglia opposed laws against prostitution. Many felt Paglia was a neo conservative i.m.o neo cons are lame. |
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I don't know. That all porn is rape theory stems from Andrea Dworkin i guess. I guess such an extreme view of pornography was neccessary at one point in the history of feminism. |
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Mmm, i have nothing to talk about. For example this evening, i just posted here, ate and slept and read a bit. I have also little interest in getting to know people, who play a certain role all day on the job. I am there because i have to earn money. And my role is to do a good job, nothing else. If anyone expects more of me, like initiating small talk, than i say the workplace is not right place for that. Especially if you constantly get judged by others, and if you fear to loose the job if you say the wrong thing. This pressure does not make me want to talk with anyone. |
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