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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-10-24 07:15 [#02396698]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular
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I am reading a book about it by Seymour and O'Connor. It seems a bit outdated.
Whatcha think about Nlp? Ever tried it? Does it work?
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JivverDicker
from my house on 2010-10-24 07:21 [#02396699]
Points: 12102 Status: Regular
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It's not Cogito ergo sum again is it?
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jnasato
from 777gogogo (Japan) on 2010-10-24 08:08 [#02396701]
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majjjjjjjjjjick
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taking_the_piz
on 2010-10-24 08:42 [#02396702]
Points: 795 Status: Lurker
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You might want to check the works of Alfred Korzybski about general semantics, which is a precursor to NLP. Think of it as a sort of logic (non-Aristotelian logic) which is what non-Newtonian physics is to Newtonian physics. (E.g. multi-valued logic versus the true/false logic, or the reversibility of the arrow of time)
Point being: just like non-newtonian physics is far from outdated, so is this non-aristotelian logic.
NLP itself currently belongs more in the self-help, or management sections in a library. Although the underlying concepts are still relevant, there are many people who want to make money out of it. So, there's bound to be lots of misinformation out there.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-10-24 17:13 [#02396732]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to taking_the_piz: #02396702
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Alfred Korzybski also influenced L. Ron. Hubbard. Is Nlp scientology without the religious stuff.
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clark672010
on 2010-10-25 06:46 [#02396763]
Points: 398 Status: Lurker
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they influenced each other?
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-10-25 06:59 [#02396769]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to clark672010: #02396763
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Wikipedia says so. But that doesn't matter, Hubbard stole from everywhere.
The question is, does Nlp work?
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taking_the_piz
on 2010-10-25 07:14 [#02396773]
Points: 795 Status: Lurker | Followup to Monoid: #02396732
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Not that I'm aware of. It seems more like a "what Nietzsche was to Nazism" kind of relationship.
Don't know about scientology. What is scientology without the religion bit? There's no E-meter or whatever it's called in NLP. That's for sure.
To me NLP is a combination of taking magic mushrooms, working on mental hygiene and understanding influence/beliefs. To a certain level it has been very useful. But it's certainly not the end all/be all. My ventures into NLP are limited to Mind Lines by Bodenhammer/Hall and Science & Sanity by Korzybski. I'd recommend the first (as it teaches taking the proverbial magic mushrooms). The second is fascinating but huge (p1000+), so it's only for the strong willed.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-10-25 07:54 [#02396775]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to taking_the_piz: #02396773
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“By the changing of meaning, our emotions change, as do our behaviors, habits, moods, attitudes, skills, health, etc . and our life.”
This is from a review from this book. My question: If i get angry that means some of my needs are not satisfied. By simply changing the meaning of the emotion that results from this biological, psychological need which is nut fullfilled, i am just ignoring the problem and my needs.
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-04 21:31 [#02397519]
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When you say NLP do you mean like the self-help kind of stuff that is similar to CBT or do you mean like the Derren Brown type shit for manipulating people?
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-04 21:45 [#02397522]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to Raz0rBlade_uk: #02397519
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I don't want to manipulate people. I mean it in a self-help sense. This is a field i am exploring right now: Transactional analysis, systemic therapy, nonviolent communication and a bit nlp.
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-05 21:22 [#02397585]
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Sounds extremely interesting. I have come across an approach to psychology recently that I have heard many good things about. I have not read this book yet myself but plan on reading it soon. Anyway, thought it was worth a mention.
Internal Family Systems
also this is supposed to be good
IFS Self-Therapy
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-06 04:42 [#02397610]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular
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Beware, there is lots bullshit out there. Systemic family therapy well is for families. But the systemic approach is interesting. Are you a bit familiar with systems theory and the works of Paul Watzlawick?
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-06 12:18 [#02397622]
Points: 12540 Status: Addict | Followup to Monoid: #02397610 | Show recordbag
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IFS isn't for families. It can work for you if you have no family.
"The Internal Family Systems Model (IFS) is an integrative approach to individual psychotherapy developed by Richard C. Schwartz, Ph.D. It combines systems thinking with the view that mind is made up of relatively discrete subpersonalities each with its own viewpoint and qualities."
Have not read anything by Paul Watzlawick. Can you recommend me anything?
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fleetmouse
from Horny for Truth on 2010-11-06 13:02 [#02397636]
Points: 18042 Status: Lurker
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You should look into IBS.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-06 14:06 [#02397647]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to Raz0rBlade_uk: #02397622
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I'm not familiar with Richard C . Schwartzs work, but i know a similiar approach by a german psychologist which is called the 'inner team'. This 'team' varies from Situation to situation. There is some info available on the net in english.
Closely realated to this is also transactional analysis by Eric Berne.
Paul Watzlawick wrote several books, maybe start with 'Pragmatics of Human Communication'. And while you are at it, check out Marshall M. Rosenberg too.
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mohamed
from the turtle business on 2010-11-06 14:08 [#02397648]
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transactional analysis? that's what my ex-gf was up to when i left her
that swine
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-06 15:05 [#02397654]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to mohamed: #02397648
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Oh really. Tell me a bit more if ya like.
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-06 15:11 [#02397658]
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how can i take this serious from people who use dmx? And therapy is just for big rich western wankers...if you dont feel fine: hit yourself with astick on the head and return to who you realy are: hungry cavemans with Ipods.
Monoid: please stop crying. I'm getting sick of your self pitty.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-06 19:38 [#02397683]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular
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What made you feel sick? Can you describe this feeling a bit more?I am a bit worried a bit about this, so i ask you, how exactly can i help you good sir?
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-06 21:31 [#02397691]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397683 | Show recordbag
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name one positive thing about your life and I feel fine today
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-06 22:10 [#02397693]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular
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This thread and xlt. I don't want to think 'positive' i want to think 'realistically' And yes, not all things are bad.
Right now i don't really understand why you think i might be feeling bad or depressed?
Because this thread is about various kinds of 'therapies' maybe? Well that is just one aspect, the other is that i find psychology/philosophy entertaining and interesting.
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mohamed
from the turtle business on 2010-11-06 22:35 [#02397694]
Points: 31145 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397654 | Show recordbag
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no
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 00:06 [#02397696]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to mohamed: #02397694
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ok. sorry
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 15:10 [#02397708]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397693 | Show recordbag
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me 2...even better: I work with it. I've studied social work, I am a family councelor and I work in a psychiatric hospital for psychotic and schizofrenic people. My point is: I get sick of you speaking about "various kind of therapies". I think you as a hypochondriac should start leading a normal life in stead off searching for some therapy that might help you..
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goDel
from ɐpʎǝx (Seychelles) on 2010-11-07 15:54 [#02397719]
Points: 10225 Status: Lurker | Followup to -crazone: #02397708
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and what's your problem? i can understand where your generalised image of monoid comes from. but he has shown nothing of the kind of behavior you're referring to in this thread. not only that, but you're the first to bitch and moan here. you may be a family counselor in real life, but in this thread you're showing the hypochondriac behavior you claim monoid to have.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 15:57 [#02397720]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to -crazone: #02397708
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Hmm, you seem to know me pretty well, which is surprising cuz we never talked to each other.
Well if something 'makes' you sick than aprobably some of your needs aren't fullfilled. You should also know that I do not possess the power to 'make' your feelings.
So, can you be a bit more precise?
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khrimson
from the fridge on 2010-11-07 16:21 [#02397722]
Points: 1757 Status: Regular
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what next, chaos magik?
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 16:57 [#02397727]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to goDel: #02397719 | Show recordbag
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Yeah maybe my picture of monoid is influenced over the years reading all of his posts..and you're right: in this thread I was the first to moan but when I started reading the thread I just felt like I had to shout to monoid that he has to stop talking about therapy and stuff and start living a 'normal' life...Maybe I overreacted but thats just because I care.
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 17:02 [#02397728]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397720 | Show recordbag
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I know you partly because I read a lot of posts from you...and my needs are that you feel good and live a happy life. You have the power to do that.
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-07 17:02 [#02397729]
Points: 12540 Status: Addict | Followup to -crazone: #02397708 | Show recordbag
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as a counselor surely you must get that having psychological problems is a barrier to leading a normal, happy life.
I think what Monoid is doing is great. He is obviously acknowledging he has issues that need working on and he is looking into different ways to help himself.
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-07 17:03 [#02397730]
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Also Monoid, check out Alice Miller
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 17:06 [#02397731]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Raz0rBlade_uk: #02397729 | Show recordbag
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Offcourse thats good but I think that when he starts living his life and not think about therapy, psychology etc he will start feeling a lot better.
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-07 18:18 [#02397737]
Points: 12540 Status: Addict | Followup to -crazone: #02397731 | Show recordbag
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I dunno that just sounds like ignoring the problem.
If you are right though, do you really think that was the best way to suggest it to him? Through bullying?
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 18:23 [#02397738]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to -crazone: #02397728
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Well it was surely not nice. But it is coming from a family therapist. And i know that psycho or familytherapy is the biggest placebo of the last century.
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 18:52 [#02397741]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Raz0rBlade_uk: #02397737 | Show recordbag
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It's not ignoring the problem when you start to live your life again, the method is called 'rehabilitation'. What I said wasnt ment to bully him..
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 18:53 [#02397742]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397738 | Show recordbag
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and how do you know that?
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 19:21 [#02397751]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to -crazone: #02397742
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Pretty simple. If the therapeutic method would work, it would not matter if i like my therapist or not, it wouldn't simply matter what person is practicing it, as long as i know what to do.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 19:23 [#02397752]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397751
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Sorry, i meant: 'as long as they know, what to do'
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 19:32 [#02397753]
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that is exactly the point..you have to do something not the therapist.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 19:40 [#02397754]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to -crazone: #02397753
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Why do some people need a therapist then? Most people don't have the problem that they are too dumb to know what to do.
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Raz0rBlade_uk
on 2010-11-07 19:49 [#02397755]
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Honestly writing down your feelings in a journal is a good place to start in terms of self-therapy. Sounds easy but is actually really difficult.
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 19:50 [#02397756]
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Most people just dont see the answers to their problems they already have. As a therapist it's your job to let them find the answers themselves.
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 19:52 [#02397757]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Raz0rBlade_uk: #02397755 | Show recordbag
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Even better is to write a letter to yourself from the future in wich you tell yourself about how you dealt with your problems.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2010-11-07 20:12 [#02397760]
Points: 11005 Status: Regular | Followup to -crazone: #02397756
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Doesn't matter if you found any answers if you don't have the emotional ressources, or never had the chance to aquire them, or if you are completly emotionally underdeveloped and only the feelings of fear, boredom and persist.
I try to have an realistic outlook in life, but these feelings are still there.
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-crazone
from smashing acid over and over on 2010-11-07 20:17 [#02397761]
Points: 11233 Status: Regular | Followup to Monoid: #02397760 | Show recordbag
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well: how do you deal with fear or boredom?
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