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I want to buy a laptop- should I buy a Mac or a PC? I have 800 pounds |
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i say pc, but only because i dont like apples |
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£800=crackbook only. I say no! |
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than ks |
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heppy taddy tyme! |
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with a mac you get some sturdy good "premium" hardware (good screen, speakers, keyboard, case, multitouch interface...) and you can run windows on it if you like. i bought a MBPro last April and since then i'm silently laughing at people who own pc laptops. you most likely won't regret it, imo. |
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You mac users talk about your "premium" hardware like they sprinkled some magical fairy powder on it or something. |
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have you ever tried using the multitouch thingie? it's a really good touchpad. Show me one from another brand that comes close. |
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Get a PC. Macs are virus infested pieces of shit that constantly crash. |
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No I haven't used a multitouch thingie. Ever tried using a second mouse button? Multitouch thingies are fantastic and futuristic and all that jizz. I have yet to see a practical use for one. |
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I have 801 pounds |
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hu hu hu it's great that the one button mouse thing still gets brought up |
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yeah you probably need a new pair of eyes. |
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Ive never got into the whole laptop thing because I never leave the house. Ive always been against laptops unless your a business person or a student (even then there are now so many ways to take your data with you). From my EXP your better off staying away from apple, their stuff is way over priced. I mean I could get a computer with x2 the specs of an equivalent priced mac. With apple your paying for its look and brand name. |
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Yes, Apple/Macs are incredibly overpriced, but youre not just paying for a computer that is technically the same as PC for infinitely more money, youre also paying for the ability to walk into a cafe, set yourself up at table and say "hey look at me, im really cool". |
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can i get a better one (17", more cpu)? ((fuck me, the dell store is exactly the same)) |
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pc's offer convenient mice with just one button |
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OK.... Hardware wise, you're paying the "Apple premium" buying an Apple laptop. The hardware found within a MacBook or MacBook Pro can be found in pretty much any other laptop, but for much cheaper. That said, I own a MacBook Pro and can safely say that they no longer offer more reliable hardware than any other laptop manufacturer. This used to not be the case, sadly. On the other hand, when you get an Apple laptop, you also get the flexibility of installing Windows on it, which obviously can be a fantastic middle-ground for your current problem, if you're able to shell the cash out. You may even find you like OSX if you use it for a while... I still think music-making is better done on OSX than on Windows. There's very little evidence that points the other way as far as that claim is concerned. |
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Which ever one runs fruityloops is the one you should get. I heard a beat made with that and it was of the hook. |
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get a spectrum they compute the bestest |
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damn, that wasn't meant to be a response to indeksical... this bloody vista machine! |
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You can run osx on a pc too. |
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yeah what i meant with premium wasn't things like harddrive or graphics card... it's the look and feel of the thing, and the interface. backlit keyboard, decent screen, tilt sensor, magnetic power plug, multitouch... it's all made by one company, and they put much effort into making their hardware a pleasure to use. It just feels better using the thing... of course they're not perfect... but weirdly, the best that competing vendors can come up with are imitations of what Apple does (see iPhone)... if there would be an alternative that works as well and looks/feels as good or better (also OS-wise), i wouldn't hesitate checking that out, but there isn't. |
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get a mac, ive never looked back. the value for money is the operating system, of which you will have no hassle with osx - it just lets you do what you want to do. any hardware is simply pulg and play - no installing. no nagging, no viruses, no stupid fucking Microsoft rip-offs. Microsoft have ripped Apple off since day one, so everyone should get with the program and see Microsoft for what they are. and if you must you can still install windows on a seperate drive, which bootcamp will do for you very easily. |
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get a mac, will last you forever... my sister has a pc laptop and it seems to be getting progressively slower |
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your sister needs to learn how to use her laptop. |
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anyway who says that macs have "premium components" need to get their head checked. the only thing premium about them is the price, which are in many cases about twice as expensive as their pc counterparts. yes, the design is pretty, but try running more than one high level app on your macbook at the same time and get ready for a crawl. also, good luck buying a decent mac for £800. you can buy a windows-based laptop for the same price, which will absolutely cream the macbook. anything by sony or ibm will do the trick. dell are cheap, but they often skimp a bit on parts. xp is a brilliant operating system when it is configured and managed properly. i haven't had to format this install for over 3 years now and it still runs as fast as the day i put it on. i used to use osx at uni and work daily and because i come from a pc background, all it did was annoy me with its over-simplification of every last fucking detail. it also crashed about 8x more than my pc did at home, though that could be because they weren't strictly my machines and got used by other people. regardless, losing work constantly in photoshop will drive you to hate something with a vengence. i'm a graphic designer btw so yes, i have experience with macs and know the operating system very well. don't believe the hype - pc's are better, if you want to do more than browse goat porn on your pc whilst listening to music on that piece of shit itunes crap. |
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im a designer too and really couldnt disagree more, i never have less then 5 apps running and it never crawls... have you used the intel mac with leopard? its only fair if you are basing your review on that os because thats what it comes with now. also just because you have a mac doesnt mean you have to have itunes, you can listen to songs from within the os wihtout any software at all or you can get VLC player or whatever you want. anyway the best thing to do is try one for yourself in an apple store if you are thinking of buying and see for yourself how much easier it is to actually do things. its niice to have products from one of the only companies in the world that INNOVATES. you only have to look at microsofts products and mentality to realise what a pile of shit they are; they copy apple designs - every os has been copied, they copy their products (see Zune and Songsmith for the embarrasment), they even copy software - it took the 7 versions of ie (which they force upon you) to catch up with Mozilla Firefox. Fuck with all that money not one single innovation! Amazing. Why dont they hire a fucking designer and realise that user experience adds value? Becaue all they give a shit about is the bottom line. |
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thankfully, i haven't had to use a mac for over a year now, so i believe the last version i used was panther. i also used all previous versions of osx before that and also had a year with the classic mac os in 2002 before my university updated. don't get me wrong, it wasn't so bad in that in actually hindered or prohibited creativity or anything, but i just felt like i could work so much faster in windows. small but annoying things like no full screen support for apps, constant crashing (photoshop has never once crashed on my pc in the 8+ years i've used it), insane window stacking (yes i know theres shortcuts to close them, but all you have to do is move the pointer away from the window and it is automatically hidden) and a bunch of other things just really drove me insane. the operating system treated me like a retard basically. this is fine for first-time computer users or those without much confidence, but i've been using computers since i first bought a spectrum 48k from a car boot sale in 1987, so it felt like a huge regression. slipstream interfaces and processes are all well and good, but often they don't actually make things any quicker. i did however really love final cut pro. i wish that was on the pc. regarding speed, what machine do you have? we used to use mac pro g5's at both uni and work, which had about 2gb of ram. these weren't too bad, but then we got some macbooks in and these were pretty much unusable for more than simple photo editing. i remember loading some large .psb files onto it and it took about 15 minutes to render. i realise they're much less-specced machines, but i rendered the same files on my vaio at home in about half the time. |
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but all this is second to my main problem with apple: apple themselves. they brand themselves as if they are the second coming of christ and have almost a cult following by the sheep who buy them. itunes is the most god awful, bloated pile of crap ever invented, yet they force you to use it if you want to buy an ipod. i know there are ways around it, but for the average user (and if they own a mac, they're already at a mental disadvantage) they won't know other software exists. also, they're one of the only companies to still have the majority of their music catalogue with drm restrictions. they also just so happen to be the most popular. i just hate the average apple users "oh look, i own a mac and i'm better than you attitude". 99% of mac users wouldn't know what unix was if it slapped them in the face with bonos ipod-straddled cock. innovation in design is their one key strength and i'll not argue that they are exceptional engineers. my problem is that for the most part, apple products are all style with little actual backbone. you can buy a mac book pro for about £1500 or more and I can guarentee I can find a pc laptop which has about twice the power. in addition, it doesn't take most pc-based laptop manufacturers 3 or more revisions before they finally have a stable product. anyone who buys a first generation mac is usually in for a whole world of tech support pain. as exaph says, go to an apple store (preferably one not affiliated with apple themselves) and have a go on one. if you like them, fair enough. but just be aware that they are far from the fabled holy grail of computers than mac enthusiasts would lead you to believe. |
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I have a 13'' (Widescreen) Macbook (not Pro) with; 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM Cost me about £800 with student discount a year or so ago. I find it to be the ideal size for me as well not too big not too small. I have .RAWs open all the tim whilst simultaneously using Illustrator and Dreamweaver (all CS3). You were probably having problems because previous versions of Adobe werent native to the new Intel processor. You should also check the features of Leopard if some of your qualms were with the usability - things like Spaces (having the ability to switch between a number of different desktops) is genius and no doubt Microsoft will copy this feature for their next OS (which nothing will work on again). Not that being easy to use means its for beginners; thats something that should be desireale, something that IMO is worth paying extra for. I too have had a computer since my first Speccy! Its funny you mention that Apple force iTunes on you when Microsoft force EVERYTHING on you - you cant even buy a PC without their OS ffs! and that was Bill Gates' policy from the start - get Windows on every PC no matter what the cost. I'm actually a little disappointed that as a designer you dont see more merit in Apple. Why do they brand themselves as the second coming of christ? In what way? Also forgot to mention that their customer service is superb; any time I have had an issue they have sorted it out straight away and even sent me a remote once for the inconvenience. Also the new Macbooks are 100% recylable which I think shows a lot of care. |
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but thats just the thing, a mac doesn't need micromanaging just to keep it working properly |
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i'm also a graphic designer too and there is a reason the mac is industry standard. |
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i enjoy a user-friendly interface as much as anyone, but not if it means having to take two steps back for every one step forward. for what its worth, i think vista is a horrible o/s and xp needs a fair bit of tweaking to get it working right. but once it's all setup properly, things are perfect. i think microsoft realised they made a lot of mistakes with vista and are going back to xp roots with windows 7. personally, i won't upgrade until i absolutely have to. btw, you can buy any pc without windows as the o/s. even if it is bundled, i believe you can send it back to either the manufacturer or microsoft themselves to get your money back if you decide not to need/use it. in comparison, try running a mac without osx. i remember ringing up apple when i was gonna buy a mac a few years ago. they put me through to an american branch and the woman initated the conversation by saying "ooh, you're english! is it raining there?" good christ. it went downhill from there, especially when she told me it would cost another £100 for 512mb of extra ram. no idea what customer service is like, but build quality of initial products is always questionable with apple. so many problems and returns. microsoft is the same with their xbox, but thankfully microsoft don't actually manufacture pc's. as a designer, i care more about the functionality of the product more than just the actual aethetics. as i say, stylistically, apple are at the top, but dig a little deeper and they're far from perfect. combine this with a sickening marketing attitude and a fanbase which makes me want to shoot myself and i just can't for the life of me find the incentive to buy any apple product. also :) |
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and what reason is that? afaik, there are now no advantages to either system when it comes to running creative software. |
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as a designer i care more about functionality too, and innovation, and ethics. thats why i will never ever buy anything made by microsoft. even if apple were inferior to microsoft i would still rather put my money in the pockets of a than a also not liking a company because of their fans is cutting your nose of to spite your face. and their marketing is extremely responsive to the market - was done buy an 18yr old guy on youtube because they liked his video so much, so they even innovate marketing, dont see why you would pick on apple about that compared to some of the patronising wankery out there - (presented by microsoft research labs - what a lab that must be!) |
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exaph, you're a nice guy but you're missing my point. i don't care about microsoft one bit and i think their marketing is just as ridiculous as apples. my only affiliation with microsoft is that i prefer to use their particular o/s over apple's. as i say, microsoft don't actually manufacture pcs, so i can buy the best components available and build a computer exactly how i want it. i don't even have to use any microsoft software if i want. if apple allowed more robust custom configs when building machines, i'd have very little issue with them, especially if they allowed you to install windows as the only operating system without needing to install osx first. however, we're forced to adhere to strict apple designs (however nice they are) which are simply overpriced and limit upgrade options. this is even more important for me, as i like to play games on my pc. i've just been around too many apple users who blindly swear loyalty to them but when probed, know next to zero about actual computing. this is the attitude i find sickening and makes me want to distance myself from them. if only people could just buy a mac and that was the end of it. instead, they also aquire a paranoid, pretentious, holier-than-thou attitude that comes with it. i've never loved any company so much than i have to defend them from every single attack aimed at them. gotta admire apple, they've made their very own army. his name was |
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"i've just been around too many apple users who blindly swear loyalty to them but when probed, know next to zero about actual computing." wtf is actual computing? do apple users only virtually compute then? osx lets you do what you want without nagging you about it. that argument sounds pretty patronising, basically you want to play games and therefore want to shoehorn as much into the hardware as you can so pc's suit you, fair enough. "if only people could just buy a mac and that was the end of it. instead, they also aquire a paranoid, pretentious, holier-than-thou attitude that comes with it." Don't you think thats pretty a pretty prejudice attitude to have? In terms of ethics Microsoft doesnt even come close to Apple in anyway, why don't you see that? Maybe thats why people love Apple because, even though they aren't perfect they do actually give a shit about you. |
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"i'm also a graphic designer too and there is a reason the mac is industry standard. " The reason macs were the industry standard for so many years was because macs simply catered to that market first, but after say the early 1990's, you could do the very same design work you could accomplish on a MAC. The reason people in the 'design' field kept to Macs was because they were already invested in them and didnt know any better until about 2003 when some of the largest design firms in the world started switching to PC because it was much more cost effective. |
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by "actual computing" (which is a silly term i agree and i shouldn't have really used it) i meant that the user should know more about their operating system than just the shell. i'd say that about half of all mac users at my old university had never used a computer before the course. of these, most developed the "apple complex" within about a year of using them and dismissed windows without even giving it a try, probably because they found it too complex. personally, i find it incredibly frustrating that you can't take your mac to bits and upgrade the parts to better suit my specific requirements. video cards in particular, especially if you need something specific for 3d rendering. macs are designed and marketed as unrestrictive, creative tools, but next to the pc, they just cannot compete for my particular (broad) needs. b6662966 got it 100% right. apple monopolise the creative market because they were there first. this is the only reason people still lock on to the idea that macs are better for design work. in reality, whatever you can do on a mac, you can do on a pc and vice-versa. the same cannot be said if you want to play the latest games, or run a bigger variety of office software on a mac. the difference is what both machines are capable of doing and the fact of the matter is, you can do more on a pc and cheaper. and yes exaph, of course it is a prejudice attitude. it is also backed up by years of being around irritating mac twats who display the exact tendencies i described. what do ethics have to do with it? even the biggest idiots can still be good people at heart. lets see how much apple give a shit about you when you stop giving them money. |
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"what do ethics have to do with it?" everything. |
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get an old top of the range desktop vaio pc from 2001 |
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my sony Vaio has the same specs as the macbook refurb, but it depends on what you want to do with it. If you go for mild graphic editing/games/office go for windows, and for serious gaphical design video editing and the lot go for Mac. |
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On the subject of ethics. Lets say something in your computer (video card or hard drive as an example) dies. If you want to replace it in your mac its going to cost you so much you might as well buy a new computer. If you want to replace it in your pc all you need to do is send the part back to the manufacturer and they will send you a brand new one. I don't get how people could be so brainwashed by a few commercials that they don't realize that Apple is just as much the bad guys as Microsoft. The fanboys seem to be under the impression that mac is a small business that runs out of someones basement and really cares about the end user experience. They don't. They make a flashy OS and charge you an arm and a leg for it, then milk you for money on whatever accessory they can because people will pay thinking they have the best computer. |
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well when my power supply died they just sent me a new one no questions asked. im not brainwashed by commercials, im basing my arguments on experience - i used windows from v3 to xp and have used osx since tiger and i think its a better os, and thats what i am paying for. simple as that really. cant believe because you have an apple you are a 'fanboy'. sort of name the conformist status quo use because they are afraid of change. |
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Woah did Taxidermist's post about the "Hackintosh" go totally under the radar or what? Even though I can't stand the OS, that is really bad ass and further proves that macs are pointless. |
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the other funny thing is that nearly everyone in favour of windows here hasnt even used OSX Tiger so their judgment is biased. but anyway more fool you guys, you will no doubt reep the benefits when Windows copy the osx features in a couple of years anyway. |
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