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I don't have it to the degree which makes me feel suicidal or anything, but I am fairly sure I am bipolar. I have crazy, crazy changes in mood. High as a kite, to deeply depressed at the smallest, most obscure, seemingly insignificant things. Does anyone have this or know someone who does? If so, please could you help me deal with it. or even just direct me to an online community which might be able to help. Thanks in advance. Tractern. X |
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xltronic will be able to help you, you don't need nothing else. fuck off i love you. |
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haha! Is "fuck off i love you" supposed to be something that someone with bipolar would say? If so, thanks. I am cheered up a little already. :) Much love. |
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I might add that I appreciate that everyone has their own problems, so please don't think I am just having a self indulgent moan. I am just trying to deal with stuff and lead a happier life. Hopefully then I will be less of a twat and make other people's lives better, too. :) |
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standard treatment for diagnosed bipolar disorder usually involved pharmacological intervention. see your doctor forthwith. resist the urge to self diagnose. |
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Hmmm... it takes a long time to diagnose; apparently up to ten years. I don't wanna be going crazy and looking and standing round, looking at my watch for that long. Plus I don't want to use medicine. My friend used it and she was told it gets worse before it gets better. "How can it get worse than being suicidal?" she said and scoffed the pills she was told to take. Ah... the lighter side of suicide. :) But that's not me. I don't think I am bad enough to need to take anti-depressants and I don't want to change who I am or aything. In addition, maybe this feeling of disatisfaction is just something everyone feels. But I doubt it a bit, too. Not sure what to think... yeah, maybe I should see a doctor. I could always reject the medicine, if it is suggested. |
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whether or not you choose to take medication, you should be evaluated by someone qualified to do so. there may be strategies to live with bipolar disorder that may help, but i absolutely recommend you do not rely on the internet to diagnose or treat. it may be a good resource, but it should not be your only resource. talk to a doctor. they won't make you do anything you don't want to. and...have a nice weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Yeah, I think you're right. This is the kind of practical, sensible advice I need right now. Thank you sincerely dude, I appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking, have you any experience with bipolar? And hope you have an awesome weeekend too, blud! ^^ |
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I am looking for stuff on the net now, but I haven't found anything useful. Have you any reccomendations? |
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hey tractern :) My boyfriend had a manic episode once. He was depressed and started getting social anxiety with it so went to his doctor. He completely changed the tablets he was on over a tiny amount of time, and he ended up having this crazy manic episode where he was just completely buzzing and starting fights with people and being high as a kite, just because the drugs theyd put him on were completely wrong. He's on Lithium and mood stabilisers now, and he is absolutely fine. You'd have absolutely no idea that any of this had ever happened. I'd really advise you to go to your doctors because it could be something as simple as you having a chemical imbalance like he did (as a result of the wrong tablets). If they put you on anything though I'd make sure you talk to him about the risk of this happening and get them to reassure you that its not a massive dose theyre putting you on or anything. You'll get through this. As I said, you'd have no idea this shit had ever happened to him. He's one of the sweetest people I've ever met, and is happy and balanced. :) Good luck!! |
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Everyone is bipolar these days. I fit most of the criteria for bipolar. A lot of people do. I doubt howvever I acutally have it. Unless you're experiencing mania in both extremities its unlikely you do and what difference would a diagnosis make? If you are really concerned tho discuss it with your GP. I think in this age of disinformation everyone self diagnosis is inevitable. |
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its not your fault its humans in general. You evolved to quick. they send you screwy. |
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Also, the myth that anti depressants change who you are is bollocks :) All they do is stop the serotonin from being reuptaken, increasing the level of serotonin to a normal level, which will make your moods normal. It's not doing anything fake or changing you, all its doing is getting the serotonin to a normal level. If you don't need antidepressants-if you're serotonin levels are normal then they'll do nothing cos theyre already normal, so there's no need to worry about that. :) |
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thatsa good point guybrush. Everyone seems to think they've got something or other, when in fact everyone's got their own little quirks etc. Perhaps your stages of feeling high as a kite are actually just you feeling normal compared to when you're feeling low. If you're getting worried about it then talk to your gp and see if you can get some cognitive behavioural therapy or just a counsellor/psychologist to talk to. If you don't think you're bad enough to go on antidepressants, then dont :) get counselling first and go from there, that might be all you need. If it still doesn't make you feel 100% then maybe a low dose of antidepressants would be a good idea. They can be a temporary aid and change your life, and you don't have to think of them as some taboo thing! |
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Hmmm... I am sorry your boyfriend went through this. :( However, hopefully some good will come of it; if I take your advice and am very careful if I take any ADs. Your fella sounds like a nice guy and I am glad he is back to 'normal' now. :) Thanks for conveying this personal experience to me, I will definately learn from it. If not for my own taking of AD, then if I ever know someone who has to take ADs. I will benefit form what you said, so thank you. X |
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"they won't make you do anything you don't want to." that's not true, they might as well. They absolutely have the right, under some circumstances and in most countries, to either forcibly drug you or even forcibly institutionalize you. This is best avoided by going to a real professional humanitarian kind of person, not some grumpy G.P. or "health worker". Do not trust the benevolence of the psycho-pharmaceutical industry. Being deprived of your human rights is probably a very low probability scenario, but it's certainly a real possibility/risk even in Britain. Modern psychiatry is a totalitarian industry, luckily not so bad today that it was a few decades ago, but still a danger to human freedom and health. anti-depressants, for example, have been linked to increased suicidal thoughts, which I have witnessed first hand in people I know. More importantly, feeling like shit is a birthright, don't trade that away. But if they help you to become a better person and cope with reality, that's fine, although even THAT might just be placebo effect. I'm not convinced that this "chemical imbalance" thing is real or just pseudo-science. Chronic depression is usually caused by real life problems, like having a crappy job or being unlucky in sex life or living in Manchester (and the like). The best options are (not mutually exclusive): 1) locate the problem, solve it. Most so-called "bipolar" conditions are caused by unresolved real life problems and thus misdiagnosed. 2) Find a good psychiatrist / psychotherapist that you can trust and feel comfortable talking to. Like a shaman-type, someone who can take you on a trip down to the underworld and back. But yea, don't feel alone in it. Find someone you can trust and talk, talk, talk. |
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aw its ok :) Glad it was of some help to you. Mental illness affects about 1 in 4 people I think, and being with him has helped me stop thinking about it as some taboo subject really. I used to think of illnesses like this as something debilitating that you could never get over, but knowing him and seeing how "normal" and happy he is have completely shown me otherwise. He's taken something great from it now though and works with kids with psychosis, depression and eating disorders and absolutely loves his job. My step-grandfather had manic depression though and he spent all their money on other women and drink and gambling and burnt down the garden and crazy things like that. It just shows you how extreme the illness can be, especially if it's not treated properly with medication and psychiatric help. Perhaps if he'd had the help he would have been a hundred times better than he was. |
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I dont know, lee scrach perry had good reasons for buring down the black arc studio |
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hahaha nice scaremongering. Have you actually done any research into this, or have you just heard this from your friends?! Admission to hospital under the civil sections of the Act (Part II) may only be made where there is a formal application by either an Approved Social Worker or the nearest relative. An application is founded on two medical recommendations made by two qualified medical practitioners, one of whom must be approved for the purpose. Also claiming that anti depressants cause increased suicide thoughts is bullshit. How could you possibly show that the direction of causality was that way round? It makes far more sense that your mates were feeling shit and weren't taking their tablets properly, or that they werent working immediately (which they don't) and they started feeling helpless and therefore suicidal. Its not the drugs that CAUSE the suicidal feelings. There's nothing in them that would do that. Again, you're not convinced of the truth of chemical imbalance? Have you done ANY research into this? Read any journals or papers on this subject or anything? You're talking out of your arse mate. Most depression is NOT caused by having a crappy job. Feeling low sometimes is, depression is not. Depressions not just feeling a bit sad or a bit grumpy you know. Also, anti depressants are not just placebos. As I said do some research, look at some papers and you will see that a placebo decreases depression to an extent, but SSRIs and other antidepressants make a much bigger difference. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIJXxDM8wrI |
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"You're talking out of your arse mate." Everyone has different experiences and get their knowledge from different places. Please don't be agressive in enoforcing yours on others. That makes me a sa-a-a-a-a-d panda. :( |
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But yea, don't feel alone in it. Find someone you can trust and talk, talk, talk. I just talked to the most sane of my uncles and he said everyone goes through this type of thing, but if I am worried, see my GP. He also said it would be a very good idea not to take any type of drug, apart from maybe a low dose of something to just make me a bit happier, if I am still really concerned. This is nothing against you, SValx, but he said that a lot of GPs prescribe pills in a very careless, free way, without being right about the amounts all the time. He also said that his girlfriend split up with him for a few weeks, as a result of having the wrong amount of ADs prescribed to her. This is a similar experience to what you had with your partner. I am not trying to oppose you, because you seem to be knowledgable on this subject and I appreciate you trying to help me out. However, surely these two instances, yours and my uncle's show that doctors can give the wrong dose, therefore one should be careful when taking ADs. This is more in support of what BoxBob was saying. However, when I think about it, you are both saying 'be careful when considering taking drugs for depression'. Therefore you should agree and share a wam hug. That'd make me smile. :D |
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im not I just hate the idea of someone scaring someone else into not going to see their doctor for help because they think they could get institutionalised.. That's not going to happen. It's not a fact of differing experiencest, it's just a matter of doing research and seeing that some of the things he is saying, which are scary things which would hugely affect what action you take, just aren't true. I'm so passionate about this subject and I've studied it for 3 years, and a module specifically about this, and seen a lot of research about it, and hearing someone taking things out of context and spreading rumours about things that could really help change your life, really upsets me. As well as saying retarded things like "living in Manchester will make you depressed" when that's where I'm from! I think I have a right to speak up |
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thats exactly what I said. I said doctors can prescribe the wrong drugs in the wrong amounts. I said to be careful and talk to your GP about the risk of this and tell him your concerns and that you would only want to start with a very low drug, and would like to see him once a week or so to update him on how you're feeling etc. I completely agree with your uncle. I am just saying that when taken correctly, when y ou are knowledgeable about the drugs you are taking, they can be life changing and immensely beneficial.You shouldn't leap in to taking anything without proper supervision, but you also shouldnt be scared by scaremongering and be made to feel that if you go to the doctor you will be institutionalised or made to take drugs that will make you suicidal. |
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I've done plenty of research into it. Like I said, anti-depressants CAN be helpful, and the situation with forced care is significantly lower today than it was, say, in the 60's and 70's (although still not nonexistent, like you yourself pointed out). Still, it happens enough to be a hot topic of . from the aforementioned article, "the procedure [of forced medication] is taken for granted in psychiatric hospitals". & "The threat of coerced medication can discourage people from seeking treatment when they need it and may damage the relationship between patients and mental heath professionals." As for anti-depressants: 1. placebo effect (i.e. no real effect) has been found in . see one good meta-analysis here: "" Even a more positive of the situation concludes that "currently, the methodological problems with antidepressant trials preclude us from concluding definitively that the difference actually indicates specific biological effects of the drugs, as various nonspecific factors have not been adequately ruled out." In other words, even if there are non-placebo effects, they are very minor or selective indeed. 2. a link to suicidal tendencies has been claimed in href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/05082122 , and |
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I can appreciate that you feel Bob might be scaremongering, but I have my own volition, anyway- I will see what everyone has to say, and act accordingly. Yeah, when I think about it, Bob's words were quite strong, lol. I think there are some gems of truth in there, though. :) |
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there seems to be a strange connection between mental health problems and idm |
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You do have a right to speak up and I didn't realise you had studied this for three years. I think this shows in what you say- you do know your stuff. I value your contribution. It is good to have things to offset each other i.e you and BoxBob |
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and your avatar |
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Yeah... I think that when that research was done into being able to tell what type of people someone was by what music they liked, IDM may have been associated with intelligence and mental problems. I think... don't hold me to it, though. |
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Yeah, it's not a pleasant avatar, I must admit. But everyone has the right to their avatar, we mustn't deny them that! :) |
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I gotta say I am very touched to see everyone take this seriously and try to help me out with this thing. Thanks guys! ^^ <3 |
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... and . Overall, there are clearly many problems with all of the aspects discussed. So, no, I'm not relying on hearsay or rumour, but on solid scientific studies. And you? Lastly, I just want to make it clear that I'm not against anti-depressants per se... Whatever works for you, fine, go with it, whether it's homeotherapy or SSRI's or astrology. The fact is, Prozac-style drugs don't seem to work that well on most people (any better than placebo), or in the worst case, they even INCREASE suicidal tendencies, especially in adolescents and children. But contrary anecdotes are of course nice to hear about. |
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youre absolutely right, some of the things he said had some truth, but taking them out of context helps no one. Bob, involuntary meds can be given in psychiatric hospitals of course! But it has to have been decided first of all that you should go there by 2 experts in the field and your nearest relative. You made it sound like your gp could force you to take meds and institutionalise you, which just isnt true. You just keep taking things out of context.. you forgot to mention this bit of the article... "Clinical trials don't mimic real-life effectiveness, she says. Patients may be rated more ill than they really are at the outset because doctors are so eager to get them into drug trials. Then they improve "as they cycle through the illness," and that can skew findings. "We know (a clinical trial) is an artificial situation, but it's the best we have." Also, you can't just get your info from biased reports like this, you need to read the actual journal articles, and the actual studies. As I said, no one denies the existence of suicidal tendencies, but you cant prove its the drug creating them, and not a feeling of hopelessness because the drugs arent working yet or because theyre not also getting the psychological help they need. |
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it was a good read this thread |
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no-one likes the new av? :( |
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I feel this will make for some illuminating reading. But I am quite tired now, so it will have to wait for tomorrow. Thanks for all this stuff, though- I read the one on the BBC site. Quite interesting and there is a lot there to support what you said. I will talk to my unkie about it tmorrow, so hopefully I will be in a better place to think about what to do next, after that. G'night all, thanks for your posts! XXX |
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Be serious. You used FOXNews.com as one of your sources? In all the links you showed about that, none of them could prove the drugs CAUSED The suicidal ideology, as opposed to there being a correlation, which could just have easily be because by the time most people take antidepressants theyre already in a bad way. Add to that the feeling that the drugs arent working quickly enough, and therefore a feeling of helplessness, you're bound to get suicidal thoughts, as helplessness is the biggest predictor of these types of thoughts. The first link said that their study was the only one to find such effects and the other one showed no link in adults. Yes I have done a lot of research into it. As I said.. 3 years worth |
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Not right now, not at this time of night, in the mood I am in. Soz, mate, soz. |
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no need to apologise buddy. good health to you sir, and good night. |
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If you have strong opinions about it, you should conduct a good study of your own, or do a proper meta-analysis of the existing studies and see what sort of conclusions you come up with. Any new study or info could shed new light on the matter, as is always the case with science. And Tractern, glad to be of help. :) This is also a personal thing because of two people I know personally who have recently attempted suicide while on prescription drugs (overdosing on them, no less), and also due to my own struggles with depression. no, drugs are not the ultimate cause of suicidal tendencies, but they can certainly ask as a catalyst, unfortunately. |
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haha I'm not sure I can do my own experiment as I'm not a PHD student yet. I'm sorry to hear about your friends, but you must know in your heart of hearts that they were in a terrible way before they even started taking the tablets and that because they attempted suicide doesnt mean that the drugs caused it. it probably means they werent getting any better as it wasn't the right dose of the right drug, and this led to them feeling helpless and more depressed. They should've been supervised better and if they were the doctor would've changed their drugs immediately. You need to be careful though that your experiences don't lead you to scaring people from seeking help, when it could change their lives. Your words can have a huge effect on people who at such a vulnerable stage in their lives. Anti depressants can save lives, and you need to be careful you don't make people too scared to try them, and end up in a horrendous state because of their fear. Fear is a terrible thing and so info like this needs to be given in an unbiased factual way. You cant take things out of context and only give half the story to match and strengthen your unlucky experience of them. It's not fair on the people who might have been put off trying something which could change their lives. |
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again, anything is possible, that's why more studies are needed. Proving a causal link (in any direction) is always difficult, but you cannot accuse these studies of being marginal or unscientific. And just because foxnews reports on a study in a scientific journal does not, I hope, invalidate the standards of the scientific journal in question? The source, as listed in the article, is "Fergusson et al., Martinez et al., Gunnell et al. BMJ, Feb. 19, 2005; vol 330: pp 385-388, 389-393, 396-399." The British Medical Journal, you might agree, is not some FoxNews spin outlet. |
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Of course not, I was just saying you need to read the actual thing, not just some extract taken out of context. You can take anything out of context and alter, if not completely change the meaning of the results. This type of thing happens all the time in the news, and its completely naive to think otherwise and take a report of what actually happened as gospel, without reading the actual original source. |
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Just to be clear, I was against anti-depressants WAY BEFORE any of this stuff happened to my friends. I started opposing these drugs as soon as I read about SSRI's, how they work on the brain, and their side-effects. After all, heavy drugs like SSRI's have many side-effects (aside from suicidal ideation): * anhedonia * apathy * nausea * drowsiness or somnolence * headache * clenching of teeth * extremely vivid and strange dreams * dizziness * changes in appetite * weight loss/gain (measured by a change in bodyweight of 7 pounds) * may result in a double risk of bone fractures and injuries * changes in sexual behaviour * increased feelings of depression and anxiety (which may sometimes provoke panic attacks) * tremors * autonomic dysfunction including orthostatic hypotension, increased or reduced sweating * akathisia * liver or renal impairment * suicidal ideation (thoughts of suicide) * Photosensitivity (increased risk of sunburn) (Use protective clothing, such as long sleeves and hats, and sunscreen to decrease the risk of sunburn.) ... These are from wikipedia, so you might again question the source, but the footnotes are pretty hefty there. Many modern medicines have heavy side-effects, so that's why I'm against most modern medicine. Then again, I don't even take cough medicine (unless I get really sick, in which case I usually seek doctor's help) or aspirin because I don't believe we should be using drugs to bypass our natural healing mechanism except in extreme cases. Depression, to be sure, is an extreme case, but at least you shouldn't be surprised if more harm comes your way because of a drug "cure". I would prefer family therapy, group therapy, psychotherapy, almost any form of talk therapy BEFORE going on prescription drugs. They should be the last resort, not the knee jerk first reaction. |
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hippy |
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better than an institutional zombie :D |
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i'm sure medication helps sustain serotonin levels in the brain, but why do people develop the illness initially anyway? It seems like to understand that would be the best course of action. Try to understand yourself, you're never going to have it forever you know, your body is temporary, so why not understand what makes you think the thoughts you do. What are the insignificant things that make you feel so quickly from a heightened mood to a lower mood? I'm not trying to counsel you or anything but i have an interest in this. |
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Don't worry about it man. Its probably all in your head. |
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