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I thought trailers were designed (for the most part) to get as many teenage boys to pick up the product as possible. |
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Yes, but based on what? On a judgement about the game, based on the trailer. |
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Its a judgement based on whats on show. Not on the mechanics of the game itself which is how it should be judged in my opinion. Which was my original point I think? |
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Yeah, you just CAN'T judge a game by a trailer. Imagine if someone judged MGS by its gameplay trailers, like the MGS3 trailer with Snake sneaking through the jungle killing guys. There would be NO indication of the human tragedy within the game. Imagine if one only caught the recent demo of MGS4. No story at all. Another Splinter Cell ripoff. Foolishness. Reviewers these days are, sadly, like you, demanding next to no actual work to be put into storyline as long as the game "looks great" and has a "good implementation of the controls" while maintaining a low cutscene-to-gameplay ratio.. Reviewers understand that there are several different ways to immerse a player into a virtual universe and stimulate their mind. They have an open mind and know that ''thinking'' isn't limited to sitting there watching a cutscene with bad voice acting. I'm an MGS fanboy, I love cutscenes and good stories. But lots of people, and I know this is hard to believe, also play GAMES for FUN. People can enjoy more than one style. It's FUN to use tactics and teamwork in a game like Counterstrike. It involves thinking and knowledge (with the right people). So I should play a game before talking about it, but not you? As far as I know, it isn't out yet. Trailer for that game mentions little story, a mere background I've played and beaten both Shock games many times and I've done lots of research into Bioshock beyond just watching the trailers, because it's a series that interests me. You need to understand that gaming is a business, and these trailers are designed to appeal to a wideaudience... and there's no way a ''wider audience'' will find Bioshock's RPG elements interesting. Being uninformed is never good, and you do not get informed by watching trailers designed to sell a game. The game HAS to make money. Without money, these games can't get developed. Bioshock isn't going to make money if it just sells to the hardcore Deus Ex/Thief/System Shock crowd. Read about games, don't wa |
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What the hell, I thought I had 40 characters left! Anyway, read about games, don't watch trailers. Even better, PLAY games. |
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how many good points ophecks going to make? many |
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the graphics are great. it looks very similar (a bit too similar, even) to Resident Evil 4 though... Resident Evil 4 was awesome, definitely one of the best games of its generation, but i hope Resident Evil 5 will bring some new things and not just be a prettier Resident Evil 4 in a different environment. (even though i would probably buy it even if it was.) |
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ophecks = king of videogames. |
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i wouldnt mind at all if it played like an extension of resident evil 4. in fact, i may just prefer it. its bound to have a few new features here and there. |
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i'm afraid that this topic is no longer about resident evil 5. |
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Same. No need to reinvent the wheel. They just started with this new brand of RE, there's still so much untapped potential in this engine/style. Innovation is overrated. Anyway something else I was going to say regarding narratives in games, but I didn't have room or time this morning. Isn't the point of video games escapism? Using the Resident Evil series as an example... who DOESN'T think it would be cool to be trapped in a mansion with zombies, or a scary village with rabid psychopaths? Who needs a detailed narrative, can't you just use your imagination without having a story force-fed to you? Look at Resident Evil Remake for Gamecube. Generic story and script, wooden characters and awful acting, but can't you just lose yourself walking around that beautiful mansion without having some pre-defined reason to do it? You should check your pulse if you're not affected in some way by the fantastic work Capcom's artists do. Every room in those games, or Final Fantasy games or whatever, is like a painting, just use your imagination. There's actually a lot of slow, sombre moments like that in RE4, but of course you gotta PLAY it to know that. Not every game has to be like Metal Gear Solid. |
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Although if everybody had Hideo Kojima's passion and chutzpah, gaming would be a much better place. Of course Hideo has the money and resources to get away with it... |
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but it helps. |
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sorry, that was supposed to go: Not every game has to be like Metal Gear Solid. but it helps. |
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it helps sometimes. a shitty game is a shitty game no matter what elements you borrow from other games. |
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It can, but ifsomething like, say, Metroid Prime 4 went the MGS route, had long drawn out cutscenes and lots of character development or something, made Samus a ''deep character'' and made story the focus, the series would be ruined. But Metroid still has a great mythos and backstory, it has that sly System Shock-influenced storytelling technique where you read various bits of information that you collect and piece it all together yourself, always in-game. That's the only way you'll really learn about what's happening (I bet most people don't even bother though...) You gotta be a REEEALLL crazy motherfucker to make a game as eclectic as Metal Gear and make it work. |
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True, if I saw a trailer for MGS showing only gameplay, it wouldn't make me think much of that game either. However, there's a difference between a gameplay demonstration and a trailer, and knowing this was only a gameplay demonstration, I would seek out a trailer. In this case, we're talking about the actual trailer, and the trailer should contain a reference to story, which it usually does, but it's also usually easy to tell what they spent their time on, as that's what's the main focus of the trailer. Usually. No, I'm sorry.. game reviewers don't have open minds. They're like all other "gamers," rambling about "endless cutscenes" and whatever, making all the good games seem bad so that no-one buys them and then the good game creators have to either go out of business or start churning out mindless games like the rest of the gang. When it comes to fun.. well, it just isn't any fun when there's no story; the story is what makes the game fun. There's also a difference between fun and funny, though, and funny is what nailing enemies to walls with your glowing spear gun is, but that only lasts for a second. When it comes to tactics and whatever, yeah, sure, tactics are good. Strategy games can make it work without a particularly good story, but not if they don't have a good multiplayer mode for playing with friends. When it comes to counterstrike, I have only tried it once, and it was boring as hell because everyone was "1337" and didn't want no "god damned teamwork," which I couldn't really see working that well anyway; multiplayer games are only fun when you play with friends. If you play online, you only face people that aren't in it for the fun, people who are in it for the "prestige." |
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You're making idiotic generalizations, but that's the DM way, I guess. |
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Also, if you ever followed any substantial amount of international gaming press, game reviewers tend to be quite fucking diverse in their opinions, just like gamers! Why are you so intent on nailing everything down to this incredibly narrow "fact"? |
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I played system shock once, I remember.. it scared the hell out of me. I cannot remember a story, though.. maybe because it's a long time ago. I understand that gaming is a business, and that trailers are made to sell, but the trailer has to represent the game as well: You can't advertise it as something it isn't. Add to that the fact that the game also is too often made to sell. It's like what happened to movies when the producers got their power back from the directors: A ton of crap movies made to make money. It's what has happened to music, and games just kind of almost started out that way. I intend to try the game out (bioshock, not RE; I tried the first two, and that's more than enough), but for now, having seen that interview and some trailers, I do not have my hopes up: They seem to have focused too much on "game mechanics" or whatever you call it. |
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I've lost faith in game reviewers, and thus I don't read what they write any more. I watch the videos on IGN and Gametrailers occasionally to see what's new, but they're usually equally uninterested in story. Gametrailers have been known to mention that there isn't a story in games, but this doesn't seem to affect the score they give the game; when a game where they say "It has no story to speak of. You are a policeman and you kill bad guys" (I can't remember the name of the game) gets a 9.1 score, story doesn't count for much. |
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However, there's a difference between a gameplay demonstration and a trailer, and knowing this was only a gameplay demonstration, I would seek out a trailer. You like Final Fantasy, right? Remember that FF13 trailer? Didn't show anything but some hot girl flipping out and killing people on a train. And beating up some soldiers. And showed off the cool graphics. There was maybe... half a second of gameplay. Do you think Final Fantasy 13 isn't going to be built around an epic story just because the trailer focused on how AWESOME everything looked? Almost ALL trailers focus on action and pretty looks. Don't use MGS as a reference point... MGS is a special case, a super popular series that will definitely make money, and has the most detailed and involved story arc of any videogame series. Of COURSE they can get away with story-based trailers. A game like Bioshock can't get away with that. They can only release so much media, and the marketing guys NEED this game to look as ''cool'' as possible. You also talked about the Killzone trailer and how story has nothing to do with anything. Well that's not correct. Killzone 1 for PS2 had dozens of cutscenes, a coherent narrative and distinct characters, which were all continued and expanded upon in Killzone: Liberation for PSP, and Killzone 2 picks up at the point Liberation left off. Is it good story? Well, that's subjective and depends on how much you like militaristic sci-fi. But Killzone fans want to find out what happened. For everybody else, 99% of the rest of gamers, the trailers have to look badass, nothing more. No story. That wouldn't do anybody any good. Wouldn't make any money. Trailers. Do no depend on them. Think for yourself. Don't let marketing people think for you. |
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I mean.. story isn't even something games can get a score for on IGN! They have presentation, graphics, sound, gameplay and lasting appeal... |
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Yeah, with FF13, the only thing I'm basing my hopes on are the previous achievements of the series. MGS is a special case, yes, in that it is one of the very very few decent games out there. "Trailers. Do no depend on them. Think for yourself. Don't let marketing people think for you. " If I let marketing people think for me, I'd love just about every game out there. Instead, I find most of them boring. What marketing guy would benefit from showing me a trailer that makes me not want to play the game? And if you didn't get it, I'm objecting to the attitude of the audience as well, to that they're not demanding storylines from the game producers. So that trailers show what the audience wants, which is "cool graphics" and whatever, that just means I'm pretty much correct in my generalisations. |
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Sigh. I just want a new Baldur's Gate. |
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Who cares about the audience? Don't worry about it. The hardcore gamers that like deep games aren't forgotten and are still a viable part of the audience and many developers care about their stories and the art in their games, even if they don't have the freedom to focus on it with their marketing campaigns. The Killzone guys put a lot of work into their cutscenes and linked the narrative of the 3 games. You're not correct in your generalizations, you've already proved that because you're completely unaware that these games are built around narratives and dialogues and cutscenes and story. The trailers really do have you fooled. You find games boring that you haven't even played. That's a dangerous sign right there. |
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Do you remember back in 1997 and 1998, the first Metal Gear Solid trailers? I watched one the other day. You'd think it was a Quake game or something. They just showed Snake killing everyone with machine guns and rockets. I found it kind of interesting. The first Thief trailers from that era were the same way. It look like an FPS, lots of killing. You need to be very careful. |
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this thread is really good... i agree with Ophecks on almost everything, even though i can understand Drunken Mastah's point of view (i don't think it's the point of view of most gamers, but i can understand it). i personally care a lot about the ambiance of the game, more than about the scenario, for the reasons Ophecks explained in post [#02107998]. i didn't like God of War because of its ambiance, for example. and right now i'm playing Final Fantasy XII, even though i don't care about the scenario (most RPG scenarios bore me now). "No need to reinvent the wheel. They just started with this new brand of RE, there's still so much untapped potential in this engine/style. Innovation is overrated." > that's ok, as long as they don't start resting on their laurels... i really loved Metroid Prime, i liked Metroid Prime 2 as well, but i'm not even that excited about Metroid Prime 3 because it just looks like more of the same again. i will pick it up if the zones look good/inspire me (and if the bosses aren't harder than the ones in Metroid Prime 2), but it seems to me like they're pushing it a bit. what's worse : i found the Silent Hill 5 trailer deceiving for the same reasons... and Silent Hill (unlike Resident Evil, in my opinion) is a game that really has to be scary. a trick you've seen before isn't scary anymore. i think some games can stay true to their series without needing much innovation, Mario games for example, but not all of them. |
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speaking of mario games, what's your opinion on mario galaxy Drunken Mastah? |
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there's also a game which in my opinion should not have had a scenario at all : Rez. what matters is the "trip", the music etc... the story kind of distracts from the experience rather than adds to it. (but the game is great anyway, so it's not really important) and some games make themselves look ridiculous because they have a silly scenario, sometimes when they don't even need one : Soul Calibur 2 for example. i actually laughed when i saw the ending of a character in story mode. |
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rez had a story?? |
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the last level had a story |
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it asked some philosophical questions but it didn't have a story. |
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I stopped keeping track of mario (and zelda) after it went 3d. |
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First MGS trailer I saw was on a demo disc that I for some reason had for my ps.. it too focused on story. There was no actual gameplay in that trailer as far as I can remember. I also think my initial introduction (before said trailer) was by word of mouth.. someone said something like "It's like playing a movie!" which got me interested. |
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I'm just annoyed because there are so few good games, that's all. I want another ff7. |
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i think this calls for LISTS. i recommend: 1. drawing a blank 2. drawing a blank 3. drawing a blank if you liked those games. they should sway you. |
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beware the hat!!!! |
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aaaah it's eating me |
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FF7 = hit butan. |
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yes... you have to rescue Eden, an A.I. (the white girl figure you see in the intro and at the end of the game), to save the network or something like that. |
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so i have to read a wikipedia article to know that the game had a story? uh. |
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no, it's just in case you wanted to know the full story : ) |
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i prefer mystery. explanations ruin everything. see: silent hill games after the first two. |
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Hahaha, trance vibrator! |
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i recommend the full article with pictures. |
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as i said in the rez topic: but safe for awesome. |
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href="http://www.gamegirladvance.com/archives/2002/10/26/se hahaha! (somewhat NSFW) |
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damn, you beat me to it, and I even fucked my link. It's the HAT§! |
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daaaamn youuu haaaat |
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