 |
|
You are not logged in! F.A.Q Log in Register |
 |
|
 |
 Now online (1)recycle ...and 76 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
 |
Members 8025Messages 2614080 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Does knowing how to play the piano/keyboard give you a better sense of general melody composition? Or do you think melody is something innate, that you don't necessarily need any true musical training for? With me, I usually place a note here, a note there, and build off that until I've got something resembling a melody. I almost never have one sitting in my head that's worthwhile. Could formal music training on the keyboard/piano possibly broaden my scope? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
What do you think? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I think it's maybe a little of both. There are probably people who can play the piano quite well, but don't have glorious new melodies forming in their head... and there are probably those who have the innate ability to compose melody but need formal training to unlock it. I'm just curious what route the more melody driven composers of xltronic went. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
There are probably people who can play the piano melodies forming in their head Poor marlowe :'-( |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
You can probably hum/etc a tune, since the throat/mouth/etc are connected right to the brain and computer software/etc isn't. Can't hum chords though unless you sing while farting but that's only two notes and its hard to control the pitch of farts. Humming a note then tediously finding which note it is to plug into software made me much better at composing melody but I still suck. Playing with melodyne might help. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
0, 3, 6, 9, 11, 13 |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
The heavenly melodies which inhabit my head are like a million times sweeter than any bit of fluff you've ever had roaming solitary around your noggin, you K D Laing clone. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well.. it depends: To teach yourself how to play the piano is more than figuring out what keys do what.. there's quite a bit of theory, and I'd bet that's what does the trick.. also, the piano is a great visual aid, so a midi controller can help a lot, plus you can't beat the human touch. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Once again I don't fucking get it. He never even mentions the 0-4-7 structure of cords, at least not in the first 3 parts. Well I only care about the key or scale or whatever of c major I think; so I do understand that c-e-g, f-a-c, and g-d-b are 'good' chords in this scale because they all have the 0-4-7 structure and all are composed of notes that are in the scale. However, I'm now can supposedly add 'minor chords' to these? I'm supposed to just put a b,d#,f# in there that retains the 0-4-7 but has notes outside the scale (black keys)? Or a,c#,e ... etc? Adding those anywhere sound like shit. Also can I add a d,f,a in there? This doesn't have 0-4-7 at all, however contains only notes in the scale (white keys). I think it's all a bunch of bullshit. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i think the secret is being able to identify what you like when you hear it. melody is a function of your experience. melody is not just a collection of frequencies any more than green is just a frequency of electromagnetic radiation. try explaining green to someone who is congenitally blind for a useful and extraordinarily instructive experience. you certainly don't need to be able to play the piano or any instrument to compose melodies, but if you intend to develop your skills you may choose to. the question is, who are you trying to appeal to? if you intend to compose to appeal to more than yourself, you're going to need build your skills within the framework of traditional theory, and learning piano is probably a good way to accomplish this. and, on the other hand, although your expression is awkward and incomplete, "melody is something innate." now, return the favor and record your reactions in my new thread "does my opinion mean anything to you?" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Just fuck about 'til it sounds good. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
knowing your instrument helps a lot |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Chords and keys. Say you're using the key of C major for your awesome tune. (All white keys on the keyboard.) The scale is 1:C 2:D 3:E 4:F 5:G 6:A 7:B In major keys, the 1, 4, and 5 notes are important because you can construct major chords with those roots using notes from your scale. C major: C-E-G. F major: F-A-C. G major: G-B-D. (wMw, you seem to know that part already.) For the rest of the notes in the scale (2,3,6, and 7), you cannot play major chords with those notes as roots. For example, note 2, D. You cannot play a D major chord in the key of C major (using only white notes), because D major is D-F#-A, and there's no F# in the C major scale. But, you can play a D minor chord using only white notes: D-F-A. A lot of folk and rock music use only the major chords in the key, so they end up with very similar chord patterns, like 1-4-5, and 1-5-1-4 and stuff. I'm not exactly a music theory expert but hopefully this helps someone out a little. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
You must set the ad_network_ads.txt file to be writable (check file name as well). |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
C Major is not just all the white keys; A minor is also all the white keys, from A to A. C major is from C to C. There's a difference. Also, a minor is c major's parallel scale or whatever it's called in English. You also make it seem a bit like once you've picked a scale, that's the scale you have to keep to. I know you probably don't mean that, but I just think it makes sense to clear it up. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
A minor is called the relative minor of C major in english. Yeah, you can change keys in a song. You can also play notes outside of the key if you want, there aren't any rules you /must/ follow when making music. Imagine two songs that both use only the white keys. Its facinating to me that sometimes the song sounds 'minor' and sometimes it sounds 'major'. I guess it has to do with the note or chord your melody resolves to, or something. Of course depending on the type of A minor scale you're using, there could be a black note in there, which would give you away as being in A minor and not C major... but if you avoid playing that one note, it can be ambiguous. But generally I find thinking and making art doesn't produce good results. Maybe it's better not to be poisoned by this sort of traditionalist, technical thinking. I'm not sure. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yeah, that helps... but doesn't this mean you can take that entire bloated complex music theory (such as linked to above) and replace it with a single rule: "you can play any 3 simultaneous notes, as long as all of them are notes in the scale" In other words you can choose any 3 white keys in the c major scale. OR do they have to be in ONLY the following two chord formats: 0,4,7 (ex. c,e,g) 0,3,7 (ex. d,f,a) I just did an experiment to see if every combination of every other white key (ie. any 3 white keys with one white key as a space between each) can satisfy either 0,4,7 or 0,3,7. c,e,g YES 0,4,7 d,f,a YES 0,3,7 e,g,b YES 0,3,7 f,a,c YES 0,4,7 g,b,d YES 0,4,7 a,c,e YES 0,3,7 b,d,f *NO* 0,3,6 So all this complex 'theory' boils down to: (in c major scale)"You can play any 3 white keys that all have 1 white key as space between them, except for b,d,f"? (... because b,d,f is that only one that is 0,3,6 which doesn't meet some stupid arbitrary 0,3,7 or 0,4,7 format we just made up, which is based on a a stupid arbitrary scale of 2,2,1,2,2,2,1 we just made up.) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yes and no. You can indeed play whatever you feel like, but that doesn't mean you can reduce the theory to one sentence; the theory is about specific parts and relations. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
^^^ Congratulations! You've (re)discovered diminished triads! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Actually, my dear boy, each minor key has two scales, the harmonic and the melodic. Only the descending melodic of A minor is white keys only. Don't be fooled by Key Signatures!! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
counterpoint counterpoint counterpoint |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Oh yeah, I remember something about that. I'm trying to get my head around as much as possible, but I keep forgetting stuff because I never really use it... I have this friend who keeps reminding me whenever I've used some sort of fancy technique in my stuff... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
you've just discovered a (half) diminished chord - B, D, F. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
i was so eager to reply that i didn't see ganymede had already pointed this out. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
See, even when you have b,d,f there is some 'rule' like 'half dimished chord (wtf) that says you can play it. So kcuf it, I'll just stick to the rule of: "play whatever the hell you want, using only white keys, and try to make it sound good to your own ear obviously" See, with most software (modplug tracker at least), you can select all the notes and increase them one key or step or whatever the hell it's called when you move it up to the next immediately adjacent black or white key... So I ONLY have to worry about c major, because I can make a melody thusly: (toejam and earl theme :D) c----g---e-----e-de-f------c-bc----c--bc-bc-bc-d and raise or lower it to any other key I want, ie to key of d: d----a---f#-----f#... etc So I don't see any point in caring about the other keys as I'll never play an instrument and can reach them just by lowering/raising notes. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
so c major uses all the white keys and a minor uses all the white keys, and you switch midway from c major to a minor... who cares and who would notice; you're still using all the white keys- no difference (maybe other then the melody now typically starts and ends with a instead of c?) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
If you are in the key of C major, you can use the Dominant 7th to modulate to another key. A minor thus (BASS NOTE FIRST) C__C-E-G Chord of C major G__B-D-F Chord of G7 G#_B-D-F Chord of D dim (actually the diminished of any of those 4 notes: theory determines which to assign it to) A__A-C-E Chord of A minor, new home key Presto! You've modulated from C major to its relative minor, A minor |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Well, there is a difference. C major is "happy," and A minor is "sad." Actually, all the white keys, from any key to the same key one octave above or below, is a scale (phrygian, lydian, etc) Same goes for the black keys. Anything is a scale, the thing with the theory is that if you know what key a song is in, you know what will automatically go good with it, if you're jamming or something. It can also be helpful to know if you're composing, as it could take you less time finding "that" note. Also, remember that, while a #C may not fit well played at the same time as a C in the same octave, the #C a few octaves above may still sound good. You should check out the natural scale or whatever it's called in English (someone should come up with some kind of universal lingo for this). It's the scale you get out of overtones of any sound but a sine wave. The thing is that the further away you get from the original tone, the smaller the intervals are. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Correct RE: the scales. The common scales we know are actually the 'Diatonic Scales' |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
*head assplodes* Anyone know of any good books to learn all this stuff? And how did you learn: school, books, vhs tape lessons? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Best way is to know someone who knows. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Google "music theory", there's lots of decent stuff out there. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I think that creating melodies in general comes from as someone said knowing what you like, and creating something that you feel is emotional. I notice over time a lot of my melodies lose some emotion to me, yet some stay strong even to this day. Finding out what you like isn't carved in stone, I become aware of certain techniques, and then i used those to create what i like, but that does not mean I can't like other techniques. My emotion for music expands as I learn more techniques, because those techniques are known to create emotions in humans. So, to learn music theory is to expand your potential for creating something you like, aka learning techniques. The only thing you should worry about is the now, worry about what you want to do RIGHT NOW, not tomorrow, and then tomorrow you will find yourself better than the day before. And by better I mean create stuff that truly touches you. Also lastly, a goal would help, like say you want to create a piano solo piece with lots of emotion and movement, tjhen work on on that, you wont be able to do it right there probably, but then you move on to another goal and come back to your other goal. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
if you want some dark/psycho/intense melody/riffs, use the diminished scale ; A,A#,C,C#,D#,E,F#,G |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
I used to know how to play piano, but they forgot to teach me the theory. Hence why I always preferred to play by memory rather than notes. Me melody constructing abilities depend solely on my emotional state at the time of writing a tune. It's usually not even something planned, tunes just form randomly in my head. After that it just depends on your motivation how you're going to recreate that in physical form. However, the saddest thing is that the most beautiful melodies are created at the stage between wake and sleep for me. Probably because the "block" of reality is elevated, kind of like when you do acid. And then I either fall asleep and completely forget the melody, or wake up and run up to the PC but am too tired to actually make anything. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
| |||||||||
|
|
Yeah I would imagine so, in here I only know of one person that is a synthesizer and piano player but the music he likes to play is very different from the music I like but I guess the basis are the same. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
Messageboard index
|
|||||||||
