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Just saw some videos of this game and it looks pretty epic. Anyone else as excited as I am about this? Actually, I am pretty damn excited about a lot of games that are about to come out. However, Bioshock is going to determine whether or not I totally upgrade my computer, because I don't think I could actually not play it when it comes out. |
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I saw a review, and it looked just like anything else these days; no story to speak of, just some so-called "new technology" dangled in front of your face to make it look like the game is worth something after all. |
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No story? Do you listen to everything you hear from reviewers? From what I have seen, this seems like a very dense and atmospheric game, with an interesting setting and game play elements. |
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I like the idea of running around a 1950's futuristic underwater apocalypse seems like fun. Games with rich atmospheres will win me over more than a game with a good story. Personally, I will watch a film or read a book if I want to get into a story. When I play games I am looking for strong atmosphere. Thats why I like horror games more than anything else, because they tend to work harder on the atmosphere in those games than others, and they draw me in. |
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I'm looking forward to this one |
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The reviewers liked it, but game reviewers don't seem to care much about stories these days. I rarely stick to games without a story for too long. Also, a story isn't the same as a background/setting, btw, and no amount of "neat" features can make up for a story. |
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Strong atmosphere my ass.. you can't have atmosphere without a story; the story is the cue for the proper atmosphere. Without the story, the "atmosphere" is little more than fog effects, crappy music and lighting. The games that have a good atmosphere always have a story to back it up. Look at Silent Hill, for instance: They have a great story which almost automatically adds atmosphere. Metal Gear Solid: Great story, without which, there would essentially be no atmosphere in the game! I wish I could say something like "I could go on forever," but with those two and the Final Fantasy games, the list is, sadly, almost complete. |
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What are you talking about? Half life 2 had a great atmosphere, but not much of a story. Doom 3 had a great atmosphere, but not really much of a story at all. The only thing Doom 3 had was atmosphere. Condemned had a fantastic atmosphere. No story. Story can be part of the atmosphere, but really, a game does not need it to be good. A game can benefit from having a good story, but doesn't need it. |
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Having issues with my keyboard right now, so punctuation and grammar is going to suffer. |
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Half-life 2 had no particular atmosphere, it was just a lot of running around. It didn't have a particularly good story either. Doom 3 just sucks all around. I haven't played condemned. A game, unless it's a puzzle game or something like that, isn't worth anything without a story, and even with puzzle games, stories can help. And, no, the story is not part of the atmosphere; it's the other way around. I really wish someone would start making good games again... |
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Welcome to the world. Its a place of varying tastes and opinions that differ from person to person. |
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And personally, I didn't think silent hill has a good story. Its got a good atmosphere, but its 'story' is convoluted and filled with nonsensical plot twists. I am not going to touch metal gear in this topic. |
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So, aside from this topic becoming a pointless argument, is anyone else interested in this game or was it naive of me to think I could come here to talk about anything without it devolving into a shit slinging match within a few posts? |
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And that's what I like about it 'cause then I can argue! |
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Actually, I'd like you to point out a nonsensical plot twist in silent hill. |
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I know nothing about the story of Bioshock... I just know that it looks like it has alot of original style, awesome visuals/weapons, promising gameplay and anyone whose demoed the game says it's extremely well done. Doesn't look repetitive either. For me, when it comes to shooters the story means little. Hell, look at GOW... best shooter ever IMO and they barely touch on any story. It's about the gameplay. |
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It has an interesting story line... do a bit of research and you'll find out quite a bit about it. The developers are intentionally keeping a lot of it to themselves though to stop any spoilers before it ships. The same thing happened with System Shock 2 and that had an AWESOME storyline. |
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Well I hope so, 'cause maybe then it will be worth playing. If not, it'll just be like any other shooter. |
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yer, games dont need story for atmosphere. thats a silly call. shadow of the colossus/ico have like no story, and yet the atmosphere in them is brilliant. there are plenty of the same old boring games coming out all the time,.. whether this is one of them.. it does look alright though. |
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Shadow of the colossus is a puzzle game, but even here, there's a minimal story line because otherwise, a world or an atmosphere wouldn't even be possible. And, no, it wasn't a particularly strong atmosphere, nor was the world particularly immersive, but because it was a puzzle game, it was still playable. Actually, that could be because it engages you in thinking. Most shooters, those without a story, without puzzles, but rather just mindless shooting are more just based on a sort of reflex/skill thing which basically just happens all on its own (just watch really really good players; it's almost like they're not there themselves, but rather just a sort of reactive robot). |
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MGS and Deus Ex have the best storylines of any game i've played. FF7 was decent too, but a lot of the coolness for that game came from the characters (read: Sephiroth) |
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The PR guys are marketing Bioshock as a straight shooter, because that's what sells, but it's more likely this plays like System Shock than Halo. And that is great. I'm mixed on it so far. I love the whole underwater art-deco thing, everything I've seen of the environment has me intrigued. To be honest the enemies look a bit wack. I especially have a thing against ''creepy little girls''. BTW why is nobody talking about Deus Ex 3? I mean it WAS announced. Is it because Deus Ex 2 was so average, that nobody is excited? Maybe lessons were learned, who knows. BELIEVE This gen is starting to pick up business. The more artistically ambitious games are starting to come down the pipeline now. |
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Bioshock hasn't been reviewed yet. |
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Also, Silent Hill and Metal Gear have dreadful, contrived cheesy stories. Metal Gear especially. I play games to have fun. Bioshock looks really atmospheric and sweet, I love the idea of "Rapture" and its hierarchy of inhabitants. A good story can be great for a game, but I think some people place too much importance in it - gameplay is always king! |
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So what game has a good story then? And, sure, you play games to have fun, but I just can't see the fun in reflex-jerks on your mouse and firing at just about anything that moves without neither rhyme nor reason. |
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System SHOCK 2 has a grrrr8 story and I bet its spiritual successor BioSHOCK will too, unless something went horribly awry in the development process. What makes a good story, that's a big question, so incredibly subjective. Metal Gear is so polarizing, you get guys like you and I who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and then squares like Staz who don't get it ( ^_- lolol). Probably a feather in the series' creative cap. Dunno, don't care. Such a variety of storytelling styles in modern videogames. I put atmosphere before story for sure, and probably before gameplay (though it's not like they're always mutually exclusive). Some of the most riveting and atmospheric games I've played had the absolute worst stories. Like Resident Evil 4, which I'm about to buy for the 3rd time for Wii. |
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say what? what about the ravenholme level, it certainly has atmosphere. |
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drunken mastah is just being a jerk itt! |
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the moral of the story is - some people like some things, some people like other things. as taxidermist has already said - hurray for varying tastes and opinions and i agree with his annoyance at the fact that this thread, like so many others on here get very off topic very quickly and turn into an argument about "this and that" re-read the original post: "Just saw some videos of this game and it looks pretty epic. Anyone else as excited as I am about this? Actually, I am pretty damn excited about a lot of games that are about to come out. However, Bioshock is going to determine whether or not I totally upgrade my computer, because I don't think I could actually not play it when it comes out." the main focus of this post was to see if anyone else was excited about this particular game. not to dissect it apart. although Taxidermist, i think you did kinda bring it on yourself by making a confrontational question in the form of "No story? do you listen to everything you hear from reviewers?" i'm not having a go at you Taxidermist. you're one of the most consistent posters on here, and i have a lot of respect for you. but i think you could have potentiall avoided the confrontation by maybe starting out by writing "ok, well you may think that it has no storyline, but i think differently for these reasons blah blah blah. why do you think there's no storyline?" i'm not trying to start yet another argument, just trying to show where i think things went wrong. |
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and i have no idea what happened to the formatting on that post, but hopefully it's legible |
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weirdo |
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Deus Ex 3 IS very exciting news. I almost crapped my pants when it was "announced" actually. But it will be made by a team outside Ion Storm and after the disappointment of IW, people are naturally hesistant. But I have hope. I want to believe. |
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"I just can't see the fun in reflex-jerks on your mouse and firing at just about anything that moves without neither rhyme nor reason." I agree with you in that competitive, online play of FPS games often devolves into a "shoot anything that moves" twitch-fest. For the people with great reflexes, however, these games can actually be quite fun. Tastes and reflexes aside, the bottom line is that Bioshock is not about Twitch-gaming. I've read on more than one occasion that ammunition will not be extremely plentiful throughout the game, and that there will be multiple ways to deal with every enemy encounter, including avoiding them entirely. The hierarchical nature of the enemies means that with some clever movement and baiting, your can essentially get your enemies to fight amongst themselves, while you high-tail it out of there. I think I need a more clear definition of "story" as you see it. Are you referring to endless cut-scenes of dialogue? Thousands of pop-ups to read (a la Final Fantasy), a library of lore and information in-game (a la Morrowind/Oblivion) or what, exactly? Bioshock may not have hundreds and hundreds of lines of dialogue for you to wade through, but I consider setting to be an integral part of story, and the under-water distopia of Rapture is one of the most alluring, original settings I've seen in any game in quite a while. While the game may not play like reading a book, I've learned to take what story is given and fill in the gaps with my imagination. Although it may not have the most literary story around, I think Bioshock has a lot to offer a person with my mindset. |
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I wouldn't be surprised if you could get through Bioshock without firing a bullet |
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Yes, let's all agree to disagree, eh. blablallbalblalabl, I usually want to hit people when they say that, but I believe violence is wrong, so I don't. |
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A story has progress. Progress is, as the name suggests, progressive. What form it comes in is up to the creator of the game; a story can be told well, and it can be told badly, and I doubt there's a universal way to tell it well; what works for Final Fantasy works for Final fantasy, what works for Metal Gear Solid works for Metal Gear Solid, etc. When a story isn't progressive, you get the run-of-the-mill shooters. Sure they have a "story" in the sense of a background and some sort of goal, but nothing really happens between the background and the achievement of the goal. Like in doom: You're caught in hell - get out. Nothing happens along the way. That's not a story. A story has progress, it has structure. The structure can - as the way of telling the story - vary. You can have a linear structure, you can have that fish structure, you can have a chaotic structure or a non-chronological structure, whatever: A good story-teller knows how to tell the story he's telling. |
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Thank you for the elaboration, I appreciate you taking the time to help me better understand your point. "A good story-teller knows how to tell the story he's telling." Would you say any good story needs narration to be properly told, or would you be open to "immersive/emergent" gameplay as a vehicle for telling the story? I'd be open to both, but at this point in time I think, as you say, progressive storytelling trumps most attempts at letting an open world be the "story-teller." That being said, I'm certainly willing to let Bioshock have a go at it. :) |
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Well, given the genetic-powers you'll receive throughout the game, that is a definite possibility. |
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In the best games, the game is the narration. When it comes to open games, like Morrrowind, it's really really hard to tell the story (neither Morrowind, nor Oblivion had any noticeable story); the story should kind of follow your character in that you should be able to choose sides and perhaps sometimes end up not being the prophesied messiah and instead the destroyer of the world or something. |
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Hmmm. Oblivion was another game that has a great atmosphere but a poor story. I think atmosphere is best described as attributed to games that can effectively draw an emotional response out of you, or at least give you the feeling that you are experiencing a part of the game play as opposed to just walking around and performing tasks. For a lot of people, story is a very good way of doing this. However, I think its kind of pretentious to say that its the only thing that seems to make a game good. In a game like oblivion, having a massive open world that is beautiful to look at really works on its own. I would sometimes play that game just because I felt like walking around a certain part of the forest at sunset. |
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For a RPG/Adventure I like to have a well written, solid story, good characters, etc. For a FPS it's still important, but much less so. It's more about the action and the feel of the moment. If I had to choose between atmosphere or story for a FPS, I'd probably go with atmosphere. |
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"I think atmosphere is best described as attributed to games that can effectively draw an emotional response out of you, or at least give you the feeling that you are experiencing a part of the game play as opposed to just walking around and performing tasks." Yeah, and "wow awesome graphics!!!" isn't an emotion, and Oblivion was indeed just a lot of walking around doing tasks plus maybe exploring. I liked morrowind and oblivion because the worlds were so open, but I wouldn't say they made me feel anything. They are immersive games, in that you have so much to explore, but there's nothing outside of that to keep me playing. So once I had explored what I wanted to, the game has no value. MGS, on the other hand.. I've played through that quite a few times, and it's as enjoyable every time. |
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But you don't have to choose between atmosphere or story! You can get both (and only story makes atmosphere), but because of money, the industry just keeps on churning out games that it took no skill to produce: "Hey, someone developed a new engine! Quick! Make an FPS for it!" |
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Yeah, you can get both... Deus Ex is a good example of that. That new game STALKER has a pretty sweet storyline/atmosphere too. But I'm still fully capable of enjoying a game like Doom 3, which had very little story, but some serious, serious atmosphere. I'm talking full body jolts when playing in the dark, panic when the lights cut out and you can hear shit creeping towards you (its much more fun if you try not to save often). Then there was FEAR... which had a good, detailed story, but was set completely in this lame office complex and had a generally dull atmosphere. I'd pick Doom 3 to play over FEAR any day of the week. |
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When did I say it was solely because of the graphics? Your assuming that because the games had good graphics that that is what I am responding to. Its not. Its the atmosphere. Honestly, I think you can quantify atmosphere about as accurately as you can quantify a storyline, so its kind of stupid to try arguing what makes either. (Isn't MGS just a bunch of cut scenes strewn together through sporadic game play? Why not just watch a film?) Hate to engage your trolling once again, but you seem so intent on trying to beat the dead horse even further I'd feel kind of bad not to. |
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Oh... fear had some good atmosphere as well. It was scary for certain people... I guess you have to have been stuck in an office for eight hours a day for more than a week to really find that office part scary though. |
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I'm actually just about to test Deus Ex because people are recommending it. I liked STALKER too, but not because of the story (I mean, a few random cutscenes at random points, the last of which was just random images?), and consequently not atmosphere either, but because, as Morrowind and Oblivion, it's immersive. I also like Arcanum the same way, but Arcanum has a slightly better story.. it's just not told very well... |
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I just assumed because graphics is what most people fuss about when a new game comes out, and also because you say you can have a good atmosphere without a story. Well, basically, that leaves graphics and sound. (No, maybe you should try playing it. And, the thing I like about it is indeed that it's quite like a good movie in that it actually has a good story; do you enjoy movies without stories and just action? Well, actually, now that I think about it, I often do.. I love old Kung-Fu movies and bad bad bad b-action movies, but I wouldn't call any of them good movies; they're crap movies, which is why I like them) |
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I can't. They don't make them for computer, and I can't get my PSP running emulators yet. I just remember watching my friend beat MGS2, and there was about 45 minutes of animations for 5 minutes game play, and then it ended. Personally, I think sound has the largest element to go towards atmosphere. I have found the games that I really like have very strong sound design, and you really find yourself needing to use your hearing in them (thats what I like so much about condemned. You needed to listen to everything, and there was so much ambient noise, everything starts to stand out). Then looking at the Prince of Persia games. I enjoy playing them quite a bit, but its not because of the atmosphere. I like the combination of acrobatics and combat, and getting used to the combo's to get into a rhythm of kicking ass. |
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haha Arcanum... that's a different story all together... great music, visuals etc, but some of the worst gameplay EVER. That game was a mess. Still listen to the soundtrack for it though. Some other FPS with passable stories are the Max Payne games. I know they're way over the top and cheesy, but man are they fun to play. |
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