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 (nobody)...and 480 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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I've noticed that CDs (particularly albums) are getting increasingly cheaper, to the point where they're now what I consider a fair price for an album (around £9). Vinyl singles/EPS, however, seem to be getting more and more pricey. Strangely, Vinyl albums are staying about the same. Could the difference in price be down to companies knowing that cds are generally bought by more casual fans (the ones who are more likely to pirate the music instead if it's too expensive), whereas those who collect vinyl are likely to be prepared to pay more/not pirate it? Is it just that there's less demand for vinyl, so pressing costs have risen? |
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people are just not buying vinyl anymore,there of course will always be the hardcore fans. since buying final scratch,i myself have only been buying cds,apart from the odd 12". |
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That hat seems to make your incredibly small head seem almost normal sized. |
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Do you now buy CDs and mp3 them yourself? What vinyl do you still buy, 12" only releases? I think it's only a matter of time before I get a final scratch/Serato, I just paid £70 for 12 Singles/EPs and can't really justify the cost any more. :( |
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to be honest,its the second hand 12" market that still interests me. i like to spend a couple of hours in vinyl exchange on a sunday. but even doing that works out far to expensive,so yeah i think buying vinyl scratch does indeed pay for itsself over a short time. and of course,studio perfect mixes done live is a great bonus. |
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every time i go to a mates house now i take the macbook and rape the cd collection. |
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The only reason I've not done it sooner is when I've pirated things before (music software aside) I've not really valued them. When I had my playstation/dreamcast and gameboy chipped, I played them less than before, even though I had more games. I suppose I'm worried the same would happen with music. IE I'd end up DLing loads and never listening to it all. |
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I think someone linked an article saying that the world was running out of vinyl. also check the weight of the vinyls; you pay per gram. |
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I still purchase CDs (mainly albums) and Vinyls (mainly Singles/EPs). As soon as I started to listen to music with my awesome (expensive) handphones, I (really) realized that the mp3 sound was just not as good as CDs/Vinyls. And I prefer vinyls over CDs becuz the sound is even better. So I guess I'll go on purchasing vinyls (new and second hand) as long as they are sold and don't cost too much money. But I don't mind purchasing CDs when the Vinyls are not available. By the way, I noticed that I listen to the music with much more attention when I play a Vinyl than when I play a CD and a lot more than when i play mp3s (that I (shamefully) often don't play from start to finish). I believe that it's just a problem with not being able to wait and it doesn't depend on he format, but as a matter of fact, I'm a lot more patient with Vinyls so I enjoy music more with them and that makes me think that they are better. It's pure nonsense for me to blindy follow the advances of technology if it's only to listen to music the best way possible. the bad sound quality is one of the reasons why I'm strongly against all those ringtones and also against walkmen. I'm also one of those who prefer paying for seing a film at the movies on a wide screen rather than watching at home on divX, and that isn't (only) a matter of Law there. To conclude, I'll be glad to be able to listen to music on a new format, where the sound quality is at least as good as Vinyl (DVD audio or something) but I'd regret the Vinyl sensation (unbeatable in my opinion when you DJ), the beautiful large artwork and the feeling that you're special because you listen to Vinyls (are we more than 0.01 % of the population?); and of course there'd also be a bit of melancholy... |
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*if it's not (paragraph 3, line 2) |
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Quite simply, vinyl manufacturing costs a fortune. I used to work for a record label and they normally pressed about 500-1000 copies of each record. When you combine manufacturing costs with distribution fees, you're not gonna make much money. In fact, unless they sold all the copies of the record, they struggled to break even. They have since entered the digital download market and they make much more money from MP3 sales. I spoke with them about it and they said pretty much every independent dance label is in the same situation. I predict in about 5-10 years (and possibly much sooner), digital downloads will make up the bulk of music sales, surpassing even CD. It is a real shame for the vinyl market as I love the medium (and still buy shitloads of it), but its is just too expensive for artists/labels to manufacture and increasingly too expensive for DJ's and collectors to buy. A deadly combination! |
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aw shit. i'm gonna bin all my records now. |
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I hope that true music lovers would never pay for cheaty quality music. Time will reveal the true music lovers and distinguish them from the people who just listen to music because it's trendy. |
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Have vinyl pressing costs as a whole dramatically increased, or is it because (generally) fewer copies are pressed nowadays (now that vinyl is a dying medium) and that it costs a lot for the inital set up for a vinyl run, but then less (per record) for larger runs (of which there are no longer many)? |
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Vinyl singles/EPS, however, seem to be getting more and more pricey. Strangely, Vinyl albums are staying about the same. That's probably because pressing singles costs as much as pressing albums nowadays. The cost is less in the content, but more in the disc itself. And in that aspect there's not much difference between a single and an album. Don't hold my word for it though. I'm not an expert! |
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Lemme see if I can find a quote w/cost breakdown. |
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This is an interesting read: It has got lots to do with the higher oil-prices apparently. |
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Lacquer Cut 0 £0.00 Delivery 0 £0.00 Processing 1 all metalwork positve and stampers a+b £125.00 Test Pressings 10 test pressing (min. 10) £15.00 Delivery of Tests 1 standard £8.75 Setup Charge 0 £0.00 Runs 600 12" unit £312.00 Sleeve Printing 0 Films 0 £0.00 Plates 0 £0.00 Pantones 0 £0.00 Finish 0 Sleeve Shipping 0 £0.00 Stock Sleeves 0 £0.00 Inners 600 white paper inners £18.00 Sleeving Charge 0 £0.00 Centre Labels 1 1000 x 1 col £85.00 Stickers 0 £0.00 Sticker Charge 0 £0.00 Inserts 0 £0.00 Extra Printwork 0 £0.00 Export Cartons 5 export carton £3.95 Destinations 1 First box £4.80 Quantity 4 further export box delivery £14.40 Additional Costs 0 £0.00 s total price ex vat £586.90 vat@17.5% £102.71 TOTAL PRICE INC VAT £689.61 ---- Note that laquer cutting/mastering isn't included here as the boys master elsewhere. So slap another £100-200 on that price. Also worthy of note is this is for 600 12" records with only paper inners and 1 colour center labels (aka grayscale or a single pantone). AKA the bare minimum. If you want 4 colour center labels and lavish printed sleeves/stickers, you're gonna be paying MUCH more. And after all this, distributors get most of the money from your records. Great huh? |
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Lots of redundant text, so here's the important part: The plastic resins that vinyl records are made of are of course fossil fuel based. And since most of us live at some distance from a pressing plant shipping costs will continue to increase. Likewise, postage costs will no doubt be increased repeatedly to cover rising fuel costs in the coming years. There seems to be big resistance to pay much higher prices for records, as prices have gone up a lot just in the past few years. While I think it's some times easier to rationalize a higher record price than a higher door price at a gig, I am concerned that rise in price will just mean fewer people bother to buy records at all. Which brings me to the digital music craze. I must admit that I've warmed up to digital music quite a bit over the past few years. While I am 100% a vinyl record collector, I can see the efficacy of trading digital music files. From an environmental perspective I think the world would be vastly better off without most of the CD and vinyl in circulation today and just go straight to digital format. That said, hardcore belongs on 7" vinyl, the most crucial format. |
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In comparison, digital downloads cost the artist/label exactly NOTHING. And places like beatport/traxsource give the artist/label a much larger share of the sale price than you'd get from actual distributors. This is why the digital download market is so tempting right now. I mean, beatport is built right into Traktor... |
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In other words, it looks like it that the size of the pressings is not the key-factor for vinyl being so expensive nowadays. The whole logistics proces behind making and distributing records is getting more and more expensive, regardless of the amounts that are being pressed. |
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Thing is, I know how little it costs them to make/host mp3s, so I resent paying "near CD" prices. £7.00 for a DL of an album when you can get the cd for £8.00 is a joke. I'd be far more inclined to buy mp3s priced at about 40p a track or £3.50 for an album. From the sounds of it, even at that price the artist would still make more than from a vinyl release. Ta for the info on vinyl costs goDel and Brisk. |
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From an environmental perspective I think the world would be vastly better off without most of the CD and vinyl in circulation today and just go straight to digital format. Interesting. Never thought of it that way. |
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In other words, there are HUGE margins in the digital downloads-industry. Prices are held high artificially by the normal music-industry. To keep the buying of real cds/vinyl interesting for the buyer, the prices of the digital downloads have to be comparable to the music you buy in normal stores. Even though, selling digitally costs a fraction of selling the real deal, so to speak. |
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You'll need more hard drives tough. |
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I agree regading album prices. I do think most digital download sites charge way too much for albums. But standard single/ep downloads (as in, the 3-4 tracks you'd find on the 12") normally work out at about £2.99 or thereabouts which isn't so bad. Remember though, the artists/label will still make more money from digitial download sales than vinyl/cd sales. So if you want to support them more, digital seems to be the way! Personally, I buy vinyl singles/eps and CD albums. I will only buy web releases if they're web exclusives (which is becoming increasingly more common btw). I also rip everything to MP3 anyway to listen on my computer/portable player. Ripping 12" singles takes long enough, but 2xLP albums just takes the piss really, especially when you consider the ammount of post-recording editing that needs to be done too. Hence why I prefer CD's for albums. |
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And those ARE getting cheaper and cheaper, of course. |
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I must admit, unless it's a particulary good track on the album that hasn't been released on 12" elsewhere, I tend to get CD versions of albums these days. |
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Yeah, but from an environmental point of view? |
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From the environmental point of view it seems better to buy one harddrive of 1 TB, than buying all the albums you could put on that harddrive, don't you think. |
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I agree. I think DVDs may go the same way (DL and stored on a v. big HD) eventually. |
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I think I'm going to buy some stocks of harddrive manufacturers. Business is booming, and will be even more booming in the future! All intellectual property will be shared over the internet instead of actual carriers like cds. |
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On a tangent, I hope Bleep will focus more on the distribution of lossless formats. If everything would be available lossless, I'll forget about cd's completely. They're a waste of space anyways. One harddrive, or hundreds of cd's collecting dust. They're a waste of space AND of natural resources. |
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I don't really like digital downloads. They are not tangible. They have benefits and with flac are great quality, but I would much rather have something real to hold and look at. I was listening to analord 5 lastnight, and it was nice to go to my record collection, goto the afx section and pull out a big wadge of records all with interesting pictures and bits. Maybe if digital downloads came with nice 12" sleeves with decent artwork I would be a bigger fan....saying that I was very impressed with kompakt when I downloaded GAS and printed my own CD covers and bits, but that was because I could burn a CD with cover, just wouldn't have been the same if it was just some bytes on a HDD. |
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i am really not looking forward to the day mp3's will completely take over!!! |
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Although I understand where you're coming from, this need to be able to hold something and look at it, is just a habit. That physical value is mostly emotional. Whenever the price you'd have to pay to be able to hold something, is becoming far higher than the need to actually hold it, this emotional need will vanish like snow in the sun. And that moment WILL come. Prices are getting higher and higher. There's no way back. Rationally speaking, it's better to get rid of cd's immediately. There's absolutely no need for them, apart from the emotional value. |
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Emotions make us human. I don't want an empty house with a machine which is the TV, computer, music machine, hub, whatever. and no possesions cos they're digital now... ooh lovely, where's the Borg to digitise me too? It's really quite bad, but I think technology peaked in the 80's. |
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I agree. How far do you take it? Is it foolish to have posters/prints/photos on your walls as they can all be stored on the PC? What about books, should I replace hundreds of books with ebooks too? What about decorative qualities in furniture- perhaps it ought to be 100% functional to save on raw materials? Enviromentalist puritanism must stop! :D "Whenever the price you'd have to pay to be able to hold something, is becoming far higher than the need to actually hold it, this emotional need will vanish like snow in the sun." goDel: Once you talk really silly money, yes that's true, but think of record collectors now. You get people who are prepared to pay £500 for a rare record (and not all of these are the super rich- I've met some people who live in tiny houses and drive bangers, but have at least one £100+ record), rather than a bootleg for free. This would suggest that the price threshold is some way off. |
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I don't think you've got my point. I wasn't saying we should deny our emotions and buy mp3's, but that the point will come that the price that we have to pay becomes higher than the need to physically hold a cd. With the effect we rather buy our music digitally. And that's a consequence of the emotios which make us human, as you were saying. |
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Those collectors are extreme cases. You're talking about 2% of the market at most. For 75% of the market that threshold is much lower. As a counterexample to your collecters, some people already prefer digital music over physical, collectible items. Saying that's 2% of the market as well is not far fetched. |
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Moreover, those collectors will pay those big bucks only for specific records. Not music in general. Personally, I think we're already near that threshold. I'm not addressing specific instances. Everybody will have his own thresholds. Most people will even have different thresholds for different music. But in general that threshold is pretty close. If the music industry would decide to raise the prices of normal albums with 5 bucks, but the prices of digital albums would stay the same, there would be a significant increase of digitally sold albums. |
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By jumping on the "convenient" bandwagon, you guy surely accelerate the death of vinyls, cds and physical formats. |
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As a matter of fact, when you download a MP3 (or lossless format) on soulseek then decide to purchase the vinyl, you actually have something different in your hands. When you download a mp3 on soulseek then decided to purchase the MP3 (or lossless format), you only have the same thing in your hand. In my opinion, that won't prevent music lovers from purchasing MP3 because the genuine music lovers probably want to support the artists. But that could prevent other people from purchasing their music. |
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I made a rule for myself:- If I can get it on good quality vinyl for the same price (ish) as the CD, I'll get the vinyl. |
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No need to add: "what if your hard drive crash?". |
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Next Chrismas, I'm gonna offer my nephew a bunch of those Autechre MP3s and pretend I paid for them. |
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That's probably the most important question the music industry is dealing with now. Would people still be willing to pay for music, if that music was sold only digitally. What would the effects of a purely digital market be? Would it still be profitable? Personally, I agree with you. If the market was purely digital, people would still be willing to pay for their music. Or at least as willing as they are today. Perhaps even more willing if the industry would lower the prices. And in a purely digital market that shouldn't be a problem at all. Current industry seems to try to keep the situation as it is today as long as they can. Until the market is purely digital, they're able to keep the prices of digital music artificially high. And worse, they're convincing politicians they should raise tax on harddisks for the music industry. The industry is playing a dirty game. |
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We will get to the bottom of this economic mystery. |
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To be frank, I'll be glad that the music industry completely implode, perhaps we'll have a better support for the artists and not for the people who make big money by exploiting art. |
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