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Here's a short clip of some generative music I made. (Well, saying I made it is a bit confusing actually, since the program I made, made it. Erm anyway....) That music was created by a patch I made in Max/MSP. Here's a of the patch. I'll post the algorithm in a bit. |
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This particular music wasn't all that great imo, but making music with programs in general is very interesting to me. Do you know if it'd be easy to make generative music using only python (I know there are functions to control sound or whatever in 'pygame' for python but havn't gotten around to ever using or looking at them). |
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interesting indeed - have you ever seen those leaked autechre max patches? maybe they will give you a few ideas. |
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I wasn't aware that any AE patches had been leaked. I have played with the Liccflii-style patch , which isn't created by AE. It was somewhat interesting to pick apart. |
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Yes, it would be somewhat easy to do gen. music in Python. Step 1 is finding out how to play a wav. To do this, you need pygame, as you mentioned. So, install pygame. Then, do something like this: import pygame pygame.mixer.init() bloop = pygame.mixer.Sound("bloop.wav") bloop.play() # wait til all sounds are done playing, then quit while pygame.mixer.get_busy(): print "waiting for sounds to finish" Of course you need to have bloop.wav in the current directory when you run this code. |
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you spelled hits wrong |
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Indeed I did. Here's another example, faster, remixed and with an additional element. In fact I think playing glitch1, followed by glitch1-2 makes for a nice progression. |
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That was much better (my speakers suck so maybe the other one was good too). You might try making every sound quite similar- with complexity different parts w/ the same/similar sound sometimes all blends together making it difficult to distinguish the parts- instead just seems like a single cooler system. (maybe try a half percussion/half tonish sound (ex a bongo hit that can play in notes but is also percussiony) for every sound instead of different sounds. I'll fuck w/ the sound you mentioned in awhile. Right now I've surprisingly been motivated to program (took like 5 hours remembering things and getting over the same lame hurdles I've done before, no wonder I avoid it). But I might be able to post some somewhat interesting (though amateur/practice) animation here if I can get it to work right. Probably tomorrow. It's obvious but I learn a lot more when I actually do problems I don't have a firm grasp on yet (I kept making stupid structured programming mini lame programs that just altered text or something). I should mess with object orientation soonish. (It's good to search for something like '"screen.fill" python' on google just to find some program someone pasted somewhere as practice on how it works.) wikipedia mentioned whatever ae patch I think. Looking at that screenshot, it's looks like really high level language.. |
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I hope I can turn pygame output directly into a single gif somehow though... I've been able to save many seperate jpgs directly from the output before long ago (but then made an animation from them in a seperate program which took forever.) |
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Werd. |
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Personally, I don't feel the percussive elements work best when generated. I think a well sequenced percussive section, with a series of synthesizers and glitches that are generated around the patterns of the percussion sounds best. |
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I think the common mistake by people when they think generative, they seem to assume its going to sound random. I think the best part of most of autechres generative works is that they do not sound random. They sound controlled, with a high ammount of variation that is unpredictable. |
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you should check out supercollider, w M w. |
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You can also integrate python in pure-data and max/msp. I just recently started studying python and made a data-structure for my planned sequencer in a few days. Before that I wasted a few weeks trying to do that only in pd. Pd is also free, and you could just hook up your python patch to some pre-made synth patch to make sound before actually learning pd. |
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Here's how I used Live, Reason, and Max/MSP together. I'm glad that all three music programs I have can all be used together like this. The drum sounds are just samples loaded into the drum machine in Ableton Live. They're triggered via MIDI by my Max/MSP patch. The synth sounds are Subtractors in Reason, run through a few effects. My Max/MSP patch sends MIDI notes to Live. Live runs the notes through the Scale plugin, which ensures the notes fall in a C minor scale, and then sends the notes to the synths in Reason. Reason sends the audio back to Live via Rewire. I can also record the MIDI output of my Max/MSP patch in Live. This means if I want, I can do manual edits. :) |
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Here's the algorithm that generates the music (implemented with a Max/MSP patch). This is just pseudo-code. beat 1: play KICK 50% chance: play random PAD note velocity=random_between(70,110) duration=random_between(200,900) ms beat 2: 50% chance: play KICK 70% chance: play SNARE, delayed by 80 ms metronome rate for HIHAT = random_between(30, 230) ms beat 3: play KICK, delayed by random_between(0, 250) ms beat 4: 50% chance: play KICK |
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I half agree. What I'd do is put in my base kicks and snares, get some "random" hi-hats and some more "random" quieter kick and snare hits here and there. |
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if i had posted this, ecnadniarb and dog_belch would be eating my ass alive that said, the beat is really stagnant it doesn't really have a 'string' to it, you know, its just kind of plays. i would like to hear future experiments with this where the beat is maybe more connected and the sounds are a bit more strung together |
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don't be bitter, don't. |
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99% chance of me not listening |
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Interesting stuff. Most of the time I get more inspired by simple percent chance patches like this than by grandiose things that claim to be inspired by the realtime statistical breeding habits of investment bankers or somesuch nonsense. |
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Here's a newer version, with more elements, and a bit of a progression. Thanks to those who listened and gave comments. I think I'm done playing with this particular patch. I plan on experimenting more with generative music, however. It's quite exciting. Can anyone recommend any musicians that use generative techniques? (other than Eno, Autechre, Reich) |
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These are two of my favorites and are extremely computationally intensive mindfuck albums. crunch (1, aka nullpluze.nz) good ex. "toe tac tic" otto von schirach (8000 bc) good ex. (first 6 tracks) |
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downloading new mp3 in a moment, |
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Twerk does some generative things, check out his , also Drop The Lime if I'm not mistaken. did an album with generative stuff and released the patch. |
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spam the music don't mention the prog |
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back 2 the drawing board i'd say m 8 that pad makes me feel sick after 1 bar, cant u automate some other params other than pitch? its a little bit samey sorry |
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most glitch music sounds like bernard manning doing a rice pudding shit. this is no different. |
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it sounds to me like you should command more control over whats goin on with the patch i dont know a single anything about max/msp or any generative visual or musical art, but, i think generative tools should be able to produce results that the operator probably would not be able to draw out on his or her own, in like, 5 minutes... i think you would be able to draw out these results on a piano roll . and, with respect, i dont really dig the drum sounds you used, i think some bigger sounds should have been used -- like, BTHWWWOWOowowowowm kicks or ssskKkkssaaaaachi type snares,you know? add some hihats too i guess? |
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hahahahahaha |
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wtf is glitch anway |
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make music entirely out of core dumps? radiation from the big bang aka TV static taus88 random number generator w. a period of 2**88 ? |
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don't give them ideas! |
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I've done that on Lunis. You cat a file to /dev/audio or somesuch nonsense. PDFs with a mix of image and text sound verrrry interesting. |
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no sorry that's /dev/dsp |
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python ass help me please: ------------------------- a,b,c,d,e,f = 0,0,0,0,0,0 abcdef_list = [a,b,c,d,e,f] of = 3 abcdef_list[of] = abcdef_list[of] + 16 print abcdef_list print a,b,c,d,e,f ---------------------- OUTFUCKINGPUT: [0, 0, 0, 16, 0, 0] 0 0 0 0 0 0 -------------------------------------- It only modifies the one in the list when clearly I put d *IN* the list. It should have and I want it to modify the original d. But it only modifies the one in the list because it is an asscake. |
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(in english, I asigned 0 to each of variables a through f. Then I made a "list" or "dictionary" or whatever the hell that is (the mutable one) out of THEM all (one would think). Changing one in the list doesn't change the original variable though like I wanted. tried gay idea of putting [global a, global b...] |
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Nevermind, I just figured out... uh, I'm retarded. I'll just use the ones in the list, fuck the originals. |
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What's with all these suggestions? Maybe he made the drums sound like they do because they're meant to be like that. Or maybe not. |
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I think a lot of the people posting in this thread don't get that it's about experimenting with generative music, not about making banging choons for a romantic evening with your mom. |
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'I think a lot of the people posting in this thread don't get that it's about experimenting with generative music, not about making banging choons for a romantic evening with your mom.' why cant it be both? |
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This is generative music in the loosest sense of the word. It's not a bad start but all you are doing is firing out random numeric values. There is no real control of the sounds used and it is the external package (Live) that is ensuring it remains at least semi listenable. I've been messing about with Max/MSP again but my nice, well laid out, patch I am working on at the moment now looks a total mess with lines going everywhere :) |
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You know what's fun is throwing rice at a banjo. |
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This is just a test. I ran into a hurdle per minute of coding time (which equals an hour of regular time because I suck) This animation also sucks, and viewed here is only a repeating loop of 30 frames instead of constantly regenerating randomly like the program. (it changes the frame of a 12frame square animation I made in a random direction each time for 1 step) then puts another, also going random on top (pain to figure out how to deal with transparency, png files hold it, but pygame surfaces don't). So at least now I can make an animation where, instead of looping, different elements have differing cycles (out of phase). jkd could have made this lameness in 1 minute. I also had to use gimp to make a gif from the frames I saved from the program. |
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A generated soundscape of noises. Fuck beats. |
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That's pretty wicked. You're well on your way. Trust me, programming is hard, and you're not stupid if you find it slow and difficult. |
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Ooo, glitchy. Did you make this with your patch? Would you mind describing how it works, or posting a screenshot or something? |
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I ultimately want to make something like this, only 50-fold as intricate/interesting using a program. (since there was a long period when I couldn't program I became neurotic at finding ways to cheat pseudorandomness/complexity. This animation for example is only 10 frames, but its designed so that each moving square blends exactly into the one below it on the 10th frame. Since the end result is such a small 10 frame file, I don't see why it couldn't have been used on an old NES game or something. (I also made a lot of fucked up music beats where there was only 1 beat but designed to be played in 3 octaves at once, again pseudorandomness since I lacked much programming skills) |
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Autechre do it right (DID at least on lp5/ep7/cichli) in my opinion, 777 being a shining example of a perfect track. You basically can't tap your foot to this, and that at least seems necessary for whatever retarded reason 'music' even appeals to a primate brain. I would like to use a program to evolve a beat (ACCUMULATED mutations, instead of random mutations) since that has been pretty much impossible to do in shit-modplug tracker without tons and tons of input/effort, however the brief 'experiments' I did with accumulated mutations I really liked. A program would be great at it. I wonder if 777 was made in max/msp. I think wikipedia states they started using it after 1998. |
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Pretty cool sounding stuff. Is that mostly FM synthesis? |
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